I can stomach the contract given out to Hayes. I am absolutely gutted that Fletch traded for Braun the way he did. I gave him the benefit of the doubt on Niskanen and Hayes but Braun is a knife to the gut and I no longer have any confidence in Fletcher. Forgive me for being pessimistic here, but all I see is Fletcher dragging this team through the mud for a few years and wasting the rest of Giroux’s career.

The Flyers would have been better off doing nothing so far.

This hurts to read

People arent really looking at this the right way

1) Hayes had 54 points last season in 71 games. That is 62 point rate
2) 60% of Hayes' season was spent in NY where he did not have much support.
3) Hayes from what I am aware, did not get much PP time

Deal actually isnt as bad as it originally looked
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Do you think Hayes is going to play on the Flyers first PP unit? If not then he won't get much PP time in Philly either.

A bit concerned the number of people that are defending the recent moves. Is it because it is so obvious that these moves are laughably bad that the fans are simply circling the wagons?
- StepfordSam

So making a bubble team into a team that can make the playoffs without putting our future in jeopardy is laughably bad?

Gudas is a FA next season same as Braun
Niskanen is a mobile puck moving Dman with some physical bite and we gave up only Gudas for him
Hayes is a 2nd line C that gives us a 2a\2b type combo with NoPa

These are all good moves. Gudas is irrelevant and the possible loss of Hagg is not even worth noting.

This hurts to read
- 2Real

That quote came from Tanner, so you know...

Also we did nothing last summer and pooped our pants all the way to 80 something points

Do you think Hayes is going to play on the Flyers first PP unit? If not then he won't get much PP time in Philly either.
- MJL

He could. We wont know for sure until the season starts. PHI has been trying to use PP2 a lot more often. Hayes gives them a lot more options with the PP. They can afford to not put everyone on PP1 like we usually did.

I would think a Dman is on the way out however they may just sit tight and see what happens out of camp. Braun might have just been an insurance plan. The biggest issue last season is we didnt have a backup plan for a lot of things. If the young guys didnt meet expectations we had nothing to fall back on and thats what happened especially with NoPa
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

You don't trade a 2nd and 3rd round pick and take on 3.8M on the cap to add an insurance plan. They plan on playing him as a regular in the top 4.

I can stomach the contract given out to Hayes. I am absolutely gutted that Fletch traded for Braun the way he did. I gave him the benefit of the doubt on Niskanen and Hayes but Braun is a knife to the gut and I no longer have any confidence in Fletcher. Forgive me for being pessimistic here, but all I see is Fletcher dragging this team through the mud for a few years and wasting the rest of Giroux’s career.
- Boyer83

Saint Ronnies plan wouldnt have done that....

I hope that guys like Frost, Farabee, and Ratliff develop enough in the next 1-2 years to get spots and fill the roster holes.

I’m sure even with the MO of win now, the current GM would rather have those guys playing then making overpayments/market prices for top 6 UFA guys.

Also maybe Provy, Sanheim and Myers will develop to the point where they can carry their D pair, and he won’t have to trade assets for veteran defenseman to help them grow into that role.

He filled needs this season the most expensive way you can. But they still have a pipeline and picks.

I truly hope it’s not the way they operate every year.

Was going all in on a max deal for Hayes the wrong time to do this? I understand the answer and reasons if you say yes, it’s bad timing, Hart needs a year or two, the young D as well.

But it’d be nice to see what Giroux can do with some help while he is still elite, so an argument can be made that it was good timing to do this deal now.

Can or will they do this every year. God I hope not. We know it’s not sustainable and doesn’t work.
- Marc D

I think it's safe to assume with what we know and what has happened that the Flyers are going to do whatever they can that they think will help them win now and spend to or close to the cap every year.

I'm not sure I understand why people didn't expect the Flyers to spend more this year?

Most of the money is going to be spent on their RFAs...which are going to be paid way more than they should.

It was known they were going to be aggressive offseason because they needed to improve and fans wanted them to improve. So they start to improve and now people are going crazy they are spending too much? Am I missing something, where are all those free superstars people were expecting?
- Glak18

I think what it is is that not all fans felt it was go time to content right now. While I always want them to succeed, to me success isn't winning a round or two of playoffs, it's sustainably competing for the cup for a decade. You do that with picks and development. Then when go time hits, you trade or sign aggressively with hopes of putting you over the top.

While ownership and some fans want to improve right now at all costs like we always have done before, I want them to build into a long term contender even if that means go time isn't until 2 years out. Our previous mo didn't get us to the cup, and I don't love that we're going back to that model.

I'm not sure I understand why people didn't expect the Flyers to spend more this year?

Most of the money is going to be spent on their RFAs...which are going to be paid way more than they should.

It was known they were going to be aggressive offseason because they needed to improve and fans wanted them to improve. So they start to improve and now people are going crazy they are spending too much? Am I missing something, where are all those free superstars people were expecting?
- Glak18

I'm not sure why you're quoting me and saying this, I'm not going crazy at all. I did expect them to spend more, just didn't necessarily see them spending to the cap limit.

So making a bubble team into a team that can make the playoffs without putting our future in jeopardy is laughably bad?

Gudas is a FA next season same as Braun
Niskanen is a mobile puck moving Dman with some physical bite and we gave up only Gudas for him
Hayes is a 2nd line C that gives us a 2a\2b type combo with NoPa

These are all good moves. Gudas is irrelevant and the possible loss of Hagg is not even worth noting.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

I wouldn't go as far to say he put the future in jeopardy but he definitely gave a blow to the Flyers flexibility in the future.

I just hate that they're basically not going to have any flexibility going forward, probably until the expansion draft honestly. It's going to be pretty tight trying to sign their RFAs and a backup.
- Ftown19125

Some GM's spend right up to the cap, others (normally with tight owners, small market, etc.) don't. Hexy was frugal, not spending to the cap - even though the owners would permit the spend. The owners wanted a GM to use more of the assist available to them - hence Fletcher. The GM's always find ways to get out of a financial jam. We've worried about this in the past, and it's never really been a huge probable. Cap space is available via trade, demote to AHL, IR list, buyout, etc.. My guess is the Fletcher spends up to the cap with a little wiggle room - that's the plan.

He could. We wont know for sure until the season starts. PHI has been trying to use PP2 a lot more often. Hayes gives them a lot more options with the PP. They can afford to not put everyone on PP1 like we usually did.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

They could. He could use his size as a net front player but that should go to JVR. He is among the best in the league. Giroux is among the best in the league on the half wall. Voracek on the other side. Can or will Hayes play on the point? Maybe high slot? Who knows. Just don't think it's likely and the first unit is going to see the majority of time.

I can stomach the contract given out to Hayes. I am absolutely gutted that Fletch traded for Braun the way he did. I gave him the benefit of the doubt on Niskanen and Hayes but Braun is a knife to the gut and I no longer have any confidence in Fletcher. Forgive me for being pessimistic here, but all I see is Fletcher dragging this team through the mud for a few years and wasting the rest of Giroux’s career.
- Boyer83

You know Braun is only under contract for this upcoming season, right? So either, you're really overreacting to Braun trade or you think Giroux career is about to be mighty shortened

I wouldn't go as far to say he put the future in jeopardy but he definitely gave a blow to the Flyers flexibility in the future.
- MJL

define the future? 1 year out? 2? 3 ?4 ?

I think what it is is that not all fans felt it was go time to content right now. While I always want them to succeed, to me success isn't winning a round or two of playoffs, it's sustainably competing for the cup for a decade. You do that with picks and development. Then when go time hits, you trade or sign aggressively with hopes of putting you over the top.

While ownership and some fans want to improve right now at all costs like we always have done before, I want them to build into a long term contender even if that means go time isn't until 2 years out. Our previous mo didn't get us to the cup, and I don't love that we're going back to that model.
- Hextall271

Perfectly said.

Most recent Flyers 2nd round picks that are now at least pro-eligible
Hagg, NAK, Allison, Hart, Laberge, Ratcliffe.

5 of the 6 reached at least the Phantoms after the 2 years in junior/Euro Pros post draft as is usual. The other (Allison) Hextall was on record saying he wished he would turn pro.

Hart earned the starting goalie position for the Flyers after his draft +2 year and is now penciled by most as at least a + starting goalie for the Flyers for the next ten years.

Your argument is based on two things. An egregious misjudgement of the player that Braun is. And a complete lack of understanding of the value of a second round pick, not to mention the additional third (which was the route we landed the point-man on our PP)

I can't argue with stupid.
- Lip_Out

can you elaborate on what you think is an egregious misjudgment?

I think what it is is that not all fans felt it was go time to content right now. While I always want them to succeed, to me success isn't winning a round or two of playoffs, it's sustainably competing for the cup for a decade. You do that with picks and development. Then when go time hits, you trade or sign aggressively with hopes of putting you over the top.

While ownership and some fans want to improve right now at all costs like we always have done before, I want them to build into a long term contender even if that means go time isn't until 2 years out. Our previous mo didn't get us to the cup, and I don't love that we're going back to that model.
- Hextall271

how are they going back to that model?

Perfectly said.
- MJL

I knew you'd like that one haha.

how are they going back to that model?
- daryl stanley

Spending to the cap and spending picks freely. So far this offseason that's what I'm seeing. If fletch stops here with the picks, shouldn't be too much of a problem.

I just don't want them flying out the door just to improve slightly and make he playoffs. I really believe we'll see some big moves at the draft. Ghost and picks for an impact winger is say.

Seeing you guys freak out over this has made me realize that (within reason) I don't really care what they move on the roster aside from Giroux and Hart. Just (frank)ing win.

I think what it is is that not all fans felt it was go time to content right now. While I always want them to succeed, to me success isn't winning a round or two of playoffs, it's sustainably competing for the cup for a decade. You do that with picks and development. Then when go time hits, you trade or sign aggressively with hopes of putting you over the top.

While ownership and some fans want to improve right now at all costs like we always have done before, I want them to build into a long term contender even if that means go time isn't until 2 years out. Our previous mo didn't get us to the cup, and I don't love that we're going back to that model.
- Hextall271

No more needs to be said really. This is it.

A bit concerned the number of people that are defending the recent moves. Is it because it is so obvious that these moves are laughably bad that the fans are simply circling the wagons?
- StepfordSam

The Niskanen trade was probably the worst of the three. The fact they had to retain salary means the Flyers think he is better than how he has played the last couple years. If the Flyers didn't retain any salary then I would of been fine with the trade.

The Braun trade was a no brainer because they gave up assets that really don't mean that much to them in their current position. They get another experienced defenseman who can't possibly play worse than what Provorov or Ghost played like last year. Maybe Braun can teach Ghost to focus on his positioning rather than worrying about a new sweater for his dogs.

The Hayes signing...well if it was 5 years at 6m per I would of been happier, but it wasn't. The end result is still the same, center depth and improving the PK, but with a cost most don't like including myself.

If the team is better than that poop show from last year then that is all I care about. I don't care about point production and how it helps your silly fantasy leagues or how good they get rated in your video game. I just want the team to (frank)ing win and that's it.

Now since I am not privy to your super future predictable machinery, do the Flyers win or lose more games next year? I'm assuming when you pulled the string and it said "Mooooooooooooo" that means they lose more, right?

I think it's safe to assume with what we know and what has happened that the Flyers are going to do whatever they can that they think will help them win now and spend to or close to the cap every year.
- MJL

When Fletcher was announced, there were many who thought this was the end of Hexy's ultimate plan... However, Homer in the press conference stated that Hexy just was not moving fast enough. Regardless, many still thought Fletcher would trade all the youth for old experienced players.

So, we should be happy that Fletcher hasn't totally dismantled Hexy plan for developing a bunch of the younger guys. To date, he hasn't traded a younger prospect. Some argue that Fletcher is tying his own hands to being forced into a trade. Which may be the case, but it is also speculation.

I believe some else stated as much. To date, the only thing Fletch has done is trade/buyout older guys (AMAC, Gudas) for older guys and pics (which we have plenty). Spent a weak pic and some cap space on an UFA center. The bottom line is Fletcher has a plan, although some fans don't understand it.