Spending to the cap and spending picks freely. So far this offseason that's what I'm seeing. If fletch stops here with the picks, shouldn't be too much of a problem.

I just don't want them flying out the door just to improve slightly and make he playoffs. I really believe we'll see some big moves at the draft. Ghost and picks for an impact winger is say.
- Hextall271

he had to improve the team. He did so without crippling the long term future. They will always pretty much spend to the cap; majority of team do so nothing new there really. It also goes beyond on ice improvement.

The farm and picks are still plentiful as someone illustrated already.

I'm not sure why you're quoting me and saying this, I'm not going crazy at all. I did expect them to spend more, just didn't necessarily see them spending to the cap limit.
- Ftown19125

It was based on the subject matter.

Corey Perry, anyone? ANA bought him out.

JVR for OEL. Get it dun Pantloads.
- PLindbergh31

Is Pantloads your latest iteration of Coach Punchface?

Been wondering anyone know how Berube has been since you stated multiple times he wouldn't coach in the NHL again. Hopefully he found a job doing something.

Corey Perry, anyone? ANA bought him out.
- BroadSTmayhem

5 years ago Hell yah..
Currently , no thanks in every way.

Corey Perry, anyone? ANA bought him out.
- BroadSTmayhem

god please no

I was referring to bills comment of good be like homer era and rambling about ecf cup finals blah blah blah. Always the same narrative with this team. Hexys approach was right. This was always a 10 year rebuild whether these dumb flyer fans want to realize it or not. When a team has absolutely zero top prospects and extreme cap problems it takes minimum of 5-7 years to fix those issues. And another 3 years or so to turn over a roster ala la Kings. Not to mention you don’t win a cup without a goalie. 5 years after and hexy has his goalie. Debatable whether he should’ve been called up at 20 years old. Either way Hart’s gonna need a few years experience to be ready for cup run. Fletcher gonna piss all Hextall work down the drain. Hayes Braun giving away picks. Horrible fa contracts. Typical flyers
- SMS4016

Guess it’s time to root for someone else then. Heard the Rangers have an envious rebuild going on. Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

I think it's safe to assume with what we know and what has happened that the Flyers are going to do whatever they can that they think will help them win now and spend to or close to the cap every year.
- MJL

Then it’s scary times again.
Hope it’s not true and the find a middle road.

he had to improve the team. He did so without crippling the long term future. They will always pretty much spend to the cap; majority of team do so nothing new there really. It also goes beyond on ice improvement.

The farm and picks are still plentiful as someone illustrated already.
- daryl stanley

To be clear I am not all doom and gloom and want them to improve.
If this is by and large the extent of his moves I'm ok with them. I don't want to send out any of our young dmen and keep that 1st rounder.

You don't trade a 2nd and 3rd round pick and take on 3.8M on the cap to add an insurance plan. They plan on playing him as a regular in the top 4.
- MJL

I do agree the price is to high, I assume that is what the cost was to get who they wanted. Braun will add to the D core. He was still trusted to play 20 plus minutes in the playoffs.

I am happy to see the flyers use their picks and assets to better next season, one of the huge benefits of stockpiling. Plus they have lost nothing off their current roster, though I think there is something big coming.

While I am happy about using the assets, I don't want to see another trade cost like we saw with Braun.

I think what it is is that not all fans felt it was go time to content right now. While I always want them to succeed, to me success isn't winning a round or two of playoffs, it's sustainably competing for the cup for a decade. You do that with picks and development. Then when go time hits, you trade or sign aggressively with hopes of putting you over the top.

While ownership and some fans want to improve right now at all costs like we always have done before, I want them to build into a long term contender even if that means go time isn't until 2 years out. Our previous mo didn't get us to the cup, and I don't love that we're going back to that model.
- Hextall271

So in two years, and we are still missing the playoffs, then what?

cost to big for Braun but believe Braun will help next season.

No more deals like that however

The Niskanen trade was probably the worst of the three. The fact they had to retain salary means the Flyers think he is better than how he has played the last couple years. If the Flyers didn't retain any salary then I would of been fine with the trade.


- Glak18

In my opinion, the Niskanen trade was the best of the moves they made.

The Braun trade was a no brainer because they gave up assets that really don't mean that much to them in their current position. They get another experienced defenseman who can't possibly play worse than what Provorov or Ghost played like last year. Maybe Braun can teach Ghost to focus on his positioning rather than worrying about a new sweater for his dogs.


- Glak18

There are positives that adding Braun brings but in my opinion you're drastically undervaluing the assets they gave up.

The Hayes signing...well if it was 5 years at 6m per I would of been happier, but it wasn't. The end result is still the same, center depth and improving the PK, but with a cost most don't like including myself.

If the team is better than that poop show from last year then that is all I care about. I don't care about point production and how it helps your silly fantasy leagues or how good they get rated in your video game. I just want the team to (frank)ing win and that's it.

Now since I am not privy to your super future predictable machinery, do the Flyers win or lose more games next year? I'm assuming when you pulled the string and it said "Mooooooooooooo" that means they lose more, right?
- Glak18

What's winning? Getting into the playoffs? Winning a round? I want more than that personally.

Alright boys, this is going to be a bit of a lengthy one so - thanks for reading if you get through it! More level headed with some positive spins about moves we have seen lately, or I like to think!

I would like to first credit Fletcher for one big thing. I think as fans we all had players we simply believed needed to be off the club to improve it. Lehtera, Weise and MacDonald. We all believed for this club to take a step forward we not only needed to move on from Hakstol, but to not settle for Gordon. It was really refreshing, to have the beliefs validated. Going from a GM, who largely gave off the impression that the fans knew very little, and doubled down on supporting those we wanted out - it was a great feeling to have the opposite.

Now Let's start off going back in time to the end of another GM's tenure, the Paul Holmgren era. Paul started off his time with the Flyers with a glorious bang, immediately placing the team back on the map and bringing in some true quality talent while having the cap space to do it. With time, and namely the Pronger injury Holmgren began chasing that contention window when in reality - the door had already been shut. We saw a number of moves that placed too little value on draft picks, and very little concern toward the cap moving forward. Too much value was placed on trying to compete in the short team, and the risk toward long term cap/team ramifications was on the back burner. His failure, lead to a Ron Hextall hiring.

Hextall was a GM on other end of a spectrum. High value was immediately placed on draft picks and cap space. I think that was one of the best qualities about Hextall, and thats something that in a cap era - a smart GM needs to always value. Hextall's vision, as he alluded to a few times. Was not to build a team that only chased the first round, it was to build a team that set itself up as a statistically favourable contender for years, one that had true chance at going deep every year - not just making the dance and praying for the best. Hextall has many downfalls as a GM, he deserved to be fired, but his overall vision and value on draft picks/cap space was dead on. I do believe that when the kids took the next step, and thats really all the future success of this team depends on... He would have been aggressive. Its beyond unfortunate that a vast majority of the kids either stagnated, or took a step back last season, ironically in large part due to the coach he so proudly defended.

We then saw the ownership of the Flyers, and a team president who had largely seemingly been behind the scenes, come front and center. Talk about a "bias for action" was in the air, and how it was time for the team to move forward. We had paid our dues, and it was time to once again... put the Flyers on the map. The team decided to hire a GM with question marks after his Minnesota tenure, but a GM with a wealth of experience - and one the club president/owner believed would move this team forward. Unfortunately, I do believe that moving forward was simply the focus. Not about the RIGHT way, to move forward.

Fletcher, has done what he hopefully believes will correctly move the team forward. Now to go back to some positives. Matt Niskanen by all accounts is a true pro, who should help stabilize a group of young players. I do think there is some validity to Gudas alluding to the last season in Philly being truly difficult and players struggling to find themselves. I do think there is some value to qualities that men like Timonen or Streit bring to a blue line, especially a young blue line. Justin Braun, apparently will bring similar qualities. My concern with Braun, is that you severely undervalued #41 and a 3rd rounder, for one year of a 32 going on 33 year old dman. A one dimensional dman who while known for solid defensive play, is a black hole in the other end of the ice. I do not think Braun was the right player to target (and thats the key here), rushing out to get him on June 18th when his on ice play is far too limiting. He got really difficult assignments/usage in San Jose, and he does deserve credit for some of his defensive work. Will he improve the team while on the club? Probably, but the level of improvement, and one dimensional aspect of his play - again for one season. Is undervaluing the picks that went the other way.

The Niskanen deal poses risk, but does make some sense. He brings some things the Flyers management feels the group could use. I do think Gudas for whatever reason is underrated, he has quietly become a solid dman that I do think would excel in a certain playoff time atmosphere depending on the opponent. I can understand how the organization believes Niskanen is a better fit, and I do think a lot of what Fletcher has done is about "fit".

The team lastly went out to give what does appear to be FA market value to Kevin Hayes. There is no doubt another club would have given him that contract. There is no doubt that the team would take on big risk assuming Patrick simply steps up to consistently fill those 2C shoes. So in the name of moving forward, Hayes was signed. Hayes is a useful player in this league. He is good defensively, he is good at holding on to the puck, and has good EV numbers. He is not chum change as a player, and by all accounts is another man that is good in the room and brings some of those intangibles the club seems to value.

There are again, risks with Hayes. Is he a guy that is going to be able to not only compete but beat out the other 2C's he will likely go up against in the playoffs. Is he a player who's skill set is kind of redundant for this club? When talking about fit, I see the hole in the middle largely needing to be filled with the skillset of someone like Morgan Frost. Speedy, creative - and not simply a north/south player. On a team that largely lacks men who possess that creativity, I do not agree with Hayes. Signing him to that contract, makes him a core player, and the cap implications are long term. Every draft pick matters in this league, as does every overpay. Is a 45-55 point centerman, worth that kind of deal? I'd venture to say no. Does he improve the club and move them forward? Yes he does, but is the right way to move forward.

A question that arises if being hesitant with the Hayes deal is who do the Flyers then fill the 2C hole with, or 3C. I feel the correct solution is in house - and has been all along. Nolan Patrick. Its very true this a player that struggled to consistently make an impact offensively. A similar trait we once saw with Couturier. Patrick is also solid in his own zone. I believe the right move, when faced with overpaying for a FA who is not on that top tier of players - is to go with the kids you have in house until the right move presents itself. 3C was filled by Laughton last season, and its quite possible Morgan Frost would have been able to fill that role at some point next season. There is risk in going with Laughton/Frost and Patrick, but it all comes down to what your vision for the team is.

Is your vision a club that values cap space, and chooses to spend that cap space on the right players simply instead of those that move the club forward a fraction? Is your vision for a team that is a true threat to compete for a cup for an extended window, or one that is like many middle of the pack clubs hoping to catch lightning in a bottle. A core is so crucial in today's NHL. Who your core players are, and the contracts they carry. Whether those core players, are able to not only compete - but beat the best on the other side of the ice. Its those deals, that directly impact who you fill the rest of your roster with, or if you ever have to be faced with the decision of letting a younger player go due to cap space.

I feel spending that precious space on a man like Hayes, who I dont believe is good enough to consistently beat out the best of the other team, was the wrong move.

I feel that when faced with the question of how to move the team forward, if the right answer or player doesnt present itself. You stick with your kids. I believe in a cap era, the RIGHT move, is more important than simply moving forward.

Fletcher to me is a man with a bunch of money and assets. Moving his club forward, without thinking it through. The Flyers needed someone in the middle ground after Hextall, but it seems the pendulum swung too far to the other direction.

If you got through that, bravo!

I think what it is is that not all fans felt it was go time to content right now. While I always want them to succeed, to me success isn't winning a round or two of playoffs, it's sustainability competing for the cup for a decade. You do that with picks and development. Then when go time hits, you trade or sign aggressively with hopes of putting you over the top.

While ownership and some fans want to improve right now at all costs like we always have done before, I want them to build into a long term contender even if that means go time isn't until 2 years out. Our previous mo didn't get us to the cup, and I don't love that we're going back to that model.
- Hextall271

Boston, VIP's
Marchand, Pastrnak, Bereron... All drafted by Boston

However...
Rask (G) drafted by Toronto
Chara (D) drafted by Islanders
Krug (D) not drafted by Boston, but signed
Coyle (F) drafted by SJ.

My point... To have sustainability as a contender (I hate that word, many non-contenders often compete or win the cup). You need a balance of drafting/developing players, signing UFA, and trades. Which - so far -Fletch is doing (actually continuing from Hexy).

When Fletcher was announced, there were many who thought this was the end of Hexy's ultimate plan... However, Homer in the press conference stated that Hexy just was not moving fast enough. Regardless, many still thought Fletcher would trade all the youth for old experienced players.


- leon neon

No one actually thought that. That was just hyperbole posted by a few posters claiming that people thought Fletcher would do that.

So, we should be happy that Fletcher hasn't totally dismantled Hexy plan for developing a bunch of the younger guys. To date, he hasn't traded a younger prospect. Some argue that Fletcher is tying his own hands to being forced into a trade. Which may be the case, but it is also speculation.


- leon neon

One off season to this point does not tell the full story. All of the evidence that we have points to the Flyers going back to the same methods that they used under Holmgren. The possible negative effects of that are cumulative and will happen over a number of seasons.

I believe some else stated as much. To date, the only thing Fletch has done is trade/buyout older guys (AMAC, Gudas) for older guys and pics (which we have plenty). Spent a weak pic and some cap space on an UFA center. The bottom line is Fletcher has a plan, although some fans don't understand it.
- leon neon

They bought out MacDonald so they could add a 32 year old player to the lineup while adding dead cap space to the future. It's ridiculous to stated that some fans don't understand the plan. Not that complicated to see what's going on.

I think what it is is that not all fans felt it was go time to content right now. While I always want them to succeed, to me success isn't winning a round or two of playoffs, it's sustainably competing for the cup for a decade. You do that with picks and development. Then when go time hits, you trade or sign aggressively with hopes of putting you over the top.

While ownership and some fans want to improve right now at all costs like we always have done before, I want them to build into a long term contender even if that means go time isn't until 2 years out. Our previous mo didn't get us to the cup, and I don't love that we're going back to that model.
- Hextall271

What changed that won't allow the team to compete for a decade? Because they traded for a couple defensemen and signed someone?

The last thing the Flyers need to do is have the mentality that they fill the roster with their prospects and tell them to go out and get better. That never works and terrible team management, last season was even more proof of that.

If you hate the current "MO" meaning paying too much for Hayes then you must really hate overpaying for JvR the previous year under Hextall.

What other options are there? Stick with the losing team of last year in the hope they magically get better?

So just a question for the "follow the plan and time isn't right" group.

How do you sell that to your customers?

Because not one person actually talked about this also being a business.

Just curious how you market it and keep your fans excited.

To recap, the Flyers gave up a year of Gudas, a high 2nd, and a high 3rd for the privilege of burning $9.55m on Niskanen and Braun, and $2.77m on the Gudas retained salary and MACDonald buyout. Unbelievable use of over $12m in cap space.

Let's go..... Rationalize it!
- PLindbergh31

I’m not going to argue for it or against it. The simple fact is you would (frank)ing complain no matter what they did. If they got Panarin and did nothing else, you’d complain they didn’t shore up the defense. It’s pathetic. You are a miserable person.

people freaking out about giving away draft picks and Fletcher got number 11 still like

people, Holmgren used to toss FIRST ROUND PICKS (the ones that actually matter) around....this isn't that. pump the breaks

Boston, VIP's
Marchand, Pastrnak, Bereron... All drafted by Boston

However...
Rask (G) drafted by Toronto
Chara (D) drafted by Islanders
Krug (D) not drafted by Boston, but signed
Coyle (F) drafted by SJ.

My point... To have sustainability as a contender (I hate that word, many non-contenders often compete or win the cup). You need a balance of drafting/developing players, signing UFA, and trades. Which - so far -Fletch is doing (actually continuing from Hexy).
- leon neon

How old were those players when acquired by Boston? Chara has played 13 seasons for Boston.

So in two years, and we are still missing the playoffs, then what?
- bmoreflyer

Fire Fletcher and full rebuild.

Fletcher has been given a mandate to win right now, and if not Homer takes the reigns..

No one actually thought that. That was just hyperbole posted by a few posters claiming that people thought Fletcher would do that.

- MJL

You just say "No one actually thought that..." Then, "a few posters... thought Fletcher would do that."

I read all the posts that day, Fletcher getting the job was not positive. The main reason was the thoughts to undo Hexy plans or at least follow what they believed was Homers plans to dismantle the farm.

Seeing you guys freak out over this has made me realize that (within reason) I don't really care what they move on the roster aside from Giroux and Hart. Just (frank)ing win.
- hereticpride

If they stink this year after all these moves they have to trade giroux

@nutter
Great post
Long but everything on point

I like Braun a bit more then you because he got all the really tough match ups on SJ in the important games, and was good at it. Giving up #41 was a big cost though

If Frost moves in and forces Hayes into the bottom six, they will be a really good team

I think they had to get a mid six C this year, in fact I would bet Hexy would have gotten one too if he was still here, probable not paying Hayes a max deal but through a trade. Forcing G into the C role and G taking a regular PK shift would have burned him up. Now they don’t have to. Still your arguments are well thought out, kudos