No. We had a GM that knew how to team build properly in the salary cap era.

We’ve tried this method before. Flyers fans in particular should be very familiar with how all of this is going to play out.

I guess what’s shocking to me right now is the number of fans that have taken the bait, hook line and sinker.
- StepfordSam

Its un(frank)ing believable that people dont/cant member the whys and hows we were put into this position in the first place

I'm not freaking out because some of this points to a deeper communication between the GM, the business, and the coach than we've had in a long time.

They might have kicked the tires on Hayes but it had to be AV who stepped in and said "You want this guy, he's worth it. I've been with him in the locker room in good and bad situations." The fact that they listened to him begins that trust between the coach and the GM. Not a bad thing.

The moves make the business happy because moves mean new marketable faces and more income to pay everyone. They want to win too!

As for picks and prospects, Fletcher has moved a 2nd and 5th this year, and a third next year. So far none of our young Forwards or D have left the nest and every poster even the most negative have agreed we are a better team. That's frankly amazing.

We have lost Gudas, but with only 1 more year on a deal, it seems obvious he was not considered part of the core. And if you are honest with yourself you'd say the same (or most would).

Every player he has brought in has had a "good guy" or "solid" or "great in the locker room" theme. Not a bad thing on a young team - particularly since 2 of the three could be gone in a year or 2.

The negatives are around a concerning trend to throw high draft picks away, large salaries at players and retaining cap hit (possibly mismanaging the cap for the future), and whether or not he could have gotten more from each trade. I agree if we make this many moves at every trade deadline or every off season we are going to have an issue.
And it's good to keep that in sight. But let's not blow this out of proportion. They overpaid for a forward in RFA. EVERY team has done that and will continue to do that because that's how you keep your young up and coming players. They could have traded for someone better with a lower cap hit, but would you have given up Sanheim to do it?

It's his job to manage the cap and I think they will do it. We can argue about whether it's perfect but ultimately what I see is a team determined to improve and NOT at the cost of it's future. Not yet.

Long story short. I didn't want to watch the same team fall apart. I hope they are better, cuz I want to see G win, he very much deserves it.
- FlyersGrace

Awesome post Grace. Got any new book recommendations? Loved the Robin Hobb series but have finished them.

Awesome post Grace. Got any new book recommendations? Loved the Robin Hobb series but have finished them.
- Marc D

Patrick Rothfuss Kingkiller series is pretty damn good.
Probably the most fun reads I have had are the Locke Lamora books by Scott Lynch.

from what i've seen "sustainable" ways of making and winning cups involve drafting guys like Crosby/Malkin, Toews/Kane, Quick/Doughty.....
- eshake

It involves drafting developing a core of players and then once you get close, supplementing with other methods.

Are the Blues complaining about Schenn? They traded a bum with a horrible contract and two first round picks for a guy who was playing on the top line of a Cup winning team.
- PLindbergh31

He had 12 points man, he wasn't the # center, he was on one of the top two lines, contributed but was not the best guy out there, probably around the 10th most important guy on their team so yeah. We got Frost and Farabee, i'm happy and i'm also happy for him.

Its un(frank)ing believable that people dont/cant member the whys and hows we were put into this position in the first place
- KINGKENZO

Just wait, they'll come around.

from what i've seen "sustainable" ways of making and winning cups involve drafting guys like Crosby/Malkin, Toews/Kane, Quick/Doughty.....
- eshake

If you are using the Hawks and Kings the Flyers have about 8 more years before they need to win. Those teams were AWFUL for almost an entire decade. Pens were awful for at least five years before they got MAF, Crosby, Malkin etc.

Patrick Rothfuss Kingkiller series is pretty damn good.
Probably the most fun reads I have had are the Locke Lamora books by Scott Lynch.
- opeth_pa

Thanks will check them out

It involves drafting developing a core of players and then once you get close, supplementing with other methods.
- MJL

What you don't get is there is no 'right time', when was the Flyers right time to go and add? Next year, two years? What if G and Jake fall off a cliff and are no longer productive? What if frost Farabee and Patrick all amount to third liners? You can't just sit on your hands forever.

His moves got them there once! That's the point. It wasn't sustainable. He then had to trade Richards and Carter due to cap issues and a lack of prospects in the system. His methods were not sustainable in a cap era which is why he stepped down.
- MJL

so you think cap issues were the only reason those 2 were dealt?

Ok I'll play.

Give me the 4 transactions that were homeruns under Holmgren that negate the following:

JVR for L. Schenn
Signing Bryzgalov (don't want to hear it was Snider)
MacDonald contract
two draft picks for the corpse of Pavel Kubina
- PLindbergh31

carter trade
richards trade
hiring hextall
zhitnik for coburn

so you think cap issues were the only reason those 2 were dealt?
- daryl stanley

He also mentioned lack of prospects.

Thanks will check them out
- Marc D

Would start with the Locke Lamora books...

Just fun as hell while still having the traditional fantasy tropes.

Not the biggest Holmgren fan but everybody wanted Bryzgalov, every single fan was happy when they got Bryz. People just want to bash Holmgren after it didn't work out.
- idiotsallofu

I wasn't. I thought Bobrovsky was horribly mishandled by Laviolette in the playoffs and the organization pacnicked in the ensuing offseason.

It involves drafting developing a core of players and then once you get close, supplementing with other methods.
- MJL

flyers had a very good core: clode jake 14 simmonds schenn. Ronald did nothing to build around them did he?

In what way?

It doesn't support the argument that the Flyers have ruined everything Hextall did.

It doesn't support the argument that the Flyers don't value draftpicks or that Fletcher doesnt know what he is doing.

It doesn't support the argument the the sky is indeed falling in Flyers land.
- opeth_pa

Oh you got that too? lol.

Me I rather win the cap cup, prospect parade and have the most picks. Cant lose when you have that.

If you are using the Hawks and Kings the Flyers have about 8 more years before they need to win. Those teams were AWFUL for almost an entire decade. Pens were awful for at least five years before they got MAF, Crosby, Malkin etc.
- mickel25

yeah that's kinda my point exactly

The team was always competitive, it's not easy to make it to the cup (see Tampa). How about when Flyers destroyed Penguins and then had a letdown verse jersey or got beat by NYR in 7 who went to the cup (we win that if Emery doesn't play 3 games), should we blame him for Pronger's career ending injury too?
- ClaudeFather

I remember they kept trying to dump the puck in against Brodeur that series, and it seemed like every time he would calmly stop the puck, and flip it up the ice for an odd man rush the other way. Really surprised Lavy didn't adjust their attack plan !!

flyers had a very good core: clode jake 14 simmonds schenn. Ronald did nothing to build around them did he?
- daryl stanley

They had a good core and nothing in terms of prospects. They had nothing on defense or in goal when Hextall took over. They needed to restock the shelves via the draft and get out of some horrific contracts.

It involves drafting developing a core of players and then once you get close, supplementing with other methods.
- MJL

man, i think you're thinking of the New England Patriots....and they play American Football

Holmgren 1000% did more good than bad. He was a great GM, the good list is far longer than the bad.
- ClaudeFather

He did do a lot of good. But the bad..... was really bad.

yeah that's kinda my point exactly
- eshake

Word

I remember they kept trying to dump the puck in against Brodeur that series, and it seemed like every time he would calmly stop the puck, and flip it up the ice for an odd man rush the other way. Really surprised Lavy didn't adjust their attack plan !!
- HeeroYuy

and then the icing on the cake with the G suspension. That series was incredibly frustrating, the Devils for ya.

Ok I'll play.

Give me the 4 transactions that were homeruns under Holmgren that negate the following:

JVR for L. Schenn
Signing Bryzgalov (don't want to hear it was Snider)
MacDonald contract
two draft picks for the corpse of Pavel Kubina
- PLindbergh31

The Forsberg Trade
The Timonen and Hartnell trade
The Briere Deal
Brayden Coburn trade.