But the subject cops say we aren't allowed to talk about it because its three years away. So kindly drop it please.
- MBFlyerfan

No one’s saying you can’t talk about it...just offering a different view for those focused on the NMC aspect of the Hayes signing.

Sweetcheekkkksss!!11!!111
- Tomahawk

LOL

Man, you know you're my boy. I know the asset management bothers you.

But look at my track record. If I think a guy can't play and I've seen enough of him to offer an opinion, I'll do that.

I've seen Hayes enough to think that this could work. I've got no allegiance to Fletcher or Vigneault. I think Hayes is a good enough player to make it work, and I've seen him enough to where that's simply my opinion

Again, this ain't Dale Weise we're talking about

Would I have done it? I don't know. You know by now that I have no problems knocking stuff if I don't like it, but I don't know what Hayes is gonna look like, how he's gonna perform.

OK. Say it goes bad. Then we're screwed, and everybody can come on here and say we (frank)ed it up. It could be that.

But what if the guy actually does a good job? How is it that isn't one of the options?

He's good enough to do a good job for them. He plays both sides of the puck. I guess I actually need to see the guy play here before I say that two years from now, we are absolutely (frank)ed
- AllInForFlyers

I can only speak for myself but I know already that Hayes is a good player. I think he is going to improve the team. The question is how much. Does he move the bar. What happens down the line. Chances are we signed a guy who is going to pushed down to a lesser role, become more of a role player at a 7M cap hit half way through his contract or maybe a year later. Not to mention he is going to cause us to not protect another player in the E draft. Is it worth it for the amount that he is going to improve the team? Time will tell but I have doubts.

LOL

Man, you know you're my boy. I know the asset management bothers you.

But look at my track record. If I think a guy can't play and I've seen enough of him to offer an opinion, I'll do that.

I've seen Hayes enough to think that this could work. I've got no allegiance to Fletcher or Vigneault. I think Hayes is a good enough player to make it work, and I've seen him enough to where that's simply my opinion

Again, this ain't Dale Weise we're talking about
- AllInForFlyers

What's the definition of making it work?

Would I have done it? I don't know. You know by now that I have no problems knocking stuff if I don't like it, but I don't know what Hayes is gonna look like, how he's gonna perform.

OK. Say it goes bad. Then we're screwed, and everybody can come on here and say we (frank)ed it up. It could be that.

But what if the guy actually does a good job? How is it that isn't one of the options?

He's good enough to do a good job for them. He plays both sides of the puck. I guess I actually need to see the guy play here before I say that two years from now, we are absolutely (frank)ed
- AllInForFlyers

It's nothing to fold the team over, just super avoidable and annoying.

A team like Boston can make repeated 'absolutely (frank)ed' level mistakes (Kessel, Seguin, missing Matt Barzal despite having three cracks at him, etc) but the hockey gods let them get away with it and they're right back in the Finals.

The Flyers... they just can't have nice things. I'd rather not leave anything up to the hockey gods and have a GM that is careful to cross all the t's and dot all the i's.

I didn’t mean anyone individually. Haha you of all people you’re objectively one of the nicest people on here. Hell I don’t think it’s the greatest of deals either but it’s basically just what it costs to sign someone in a poor market. I just find it funny how the shoe is completely on the other foot.
- stayinthefnnet

Can't you see we're wallowing in sadness over here??

It's a NMC clause in the years that the expansion draft falls and it matters a great deal.
- MJL

No it doesnt. Yea you have to protect Hayes, who cares. Just because they have to protect him doesnt mean they are franked. Like I said, like many other teams did, you can send them a pick, you make trades to get around it, NTC doesnt mean a guy wont be open to moving. Players want a change of scenery all the time. Flyers were in trouble all ready with the Expansion Draft

Giroux
Hayes
Voracek
NoPa
TK
Lindblom
JVR
Couturier

Ghost
Myers
Sanheim
Provorov
Friedman
Morin

You can keep 7 skaters and 3 D or 8 skaters. With 7 skaters and 3 D you are exposing three of Provorov, Sanheim, Ghost, Myers, Morin, Friedman

With 8 skaters without even counting Hayes you are looking at:

Giroux
Couturier
NoPa
TK
Myers
Provorov
Sanheim
Morin

Exposed:

JVR
Voracek
Lindblom
Ghost
Friedman

The Flyers were losing someone good already. The Flyers have to decide who the best 8 guys are or settle for protecting only 3 Dmen. Clearly the Flyers already have to make a deal with Seattle so what difference does it make to add Hayes to that list?

No it doesnt. Yea you have to protect Hayes, who cares. Just because they have to protect him doesnt mean they are franked. Like I said, like many other teams did, you can send them a pick, you make trades to get around it, NTC doesnt mean a guy wont be open to moving. Players want a change of scenery all the time. Flyers were in trouble all ready with the Expansion Draft

Giroux
Hayes
Voracek
NoPa
TK
Lindblom
JVR
Couturier

Ghost
Myers
Sanheim
Provorov
Friedman
Morin

You can keep 7 skaters and 3 D or 8 skaters. With 7 skaters and 3 D you are exposing three of Provorov, Sanheim, Ghost, Myers, Morin, Friedman

With 8 skaters without even counting Hayes you are looking at:

Giroux
Couturier
NoPa
TK
Myers
Provorov
Sanheim
Morin

Exposed:

JVR
Voracek
Lindblom
Ghost
Friedman

The Flyers were losing someone good already. The Flyers have to decide who the best 8 guys are or settle for protecting only 3 Dmen. Clearly the Flyers already have to make a deal with Seattle so what difference does it make to add Hayes to that list?
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

I think some research is in order to see what Vegas walked away with from some teams to "work around it". Saying it doesn't matter and who cares is just simply turning a blind eye and being uninformed.
The logic of they were already going to lose a player so what difference does it make is really comical.

LOL

Man, you know you're my boy. I know the asset management bothers you.

But look at my track record. If I think a guy can't play and I've seen enough of him to offer an opinion, I'll do that.

I've seen Hayes enough to think that this could work. I've got no allegiance to Fletcher or Vigneault. I think Hayes is a good enough player to make it work, and I've seen him enough to where that's simply my opinion

Again, this ain't Dale Weise we're talking about
- AllInForFlyers

Yeah, Hayes is a good player. I just don't think it's the guy you throw caution to the wind over.

Give somebody like Panarin 7x15+NMC+Giroux's fiancee. I'll deal with the fallout since he's bananas good and really moves the needle.

JvR and Jake were probably gonna be exposed anyway in an 8-skater format.

Say they do trade Ghost... what did they trade him for? God forbid it's somebody else worth protecting.

You have to admit, being forced to protect 30-yo Kevin Hayes, who's likely gonna be the most expensive 3C in the league by then, is a little less than ideal.
- Tomahawk

Who says Hayes wants to be protected. If he is #3 C in Philly dont you think he would consider waiving the NTC to possibly go to Seattle to be the #1 or #2 C? It all depends on who is available of course but it can be the same situation as Fleury. He wanted to be #1 so he waived and went to Vegas.

I’m not back reading...it has probably all been said.

Negatives—the contract is high-priced, too much term, limited flexibility with NMC and NTC, results in tighter cap dollars or potential moves in later years to be able to sign RFAs, one additional player exposed in expansion draft

Positives—Hayes fills a current need for a two-way middle six center who can help on the PK. At 27, he is a vet in his prime and a good 50+ point player. His presence allows young players including Patrick better placement for growth in the lineup.

I really hope that the Flyers did their homework and Hayes is a quality competitor even after his big payday. As far as the expansion draft, my personal opinion is that we shouldn’t make a deal. Just lose the 1 player they pick.

Yeah, Hayes is a good player. I just don't think it's the guy you throw caution to the wind over.

Give somebody like Panarin 7x15+NMC+Giroux's fiancee. I'll deal with the fallout since he's bananas good and really moves the needle.
- Tomahawk

He’s going to Pittsburgh to Russian supertwin with malkin. Sorry dude

Who says Hayes wants to be protected. If he is #3 C in Philly dont you think he would consider waiving the NTC to possibly go to Seattle to be the #1 or #2 C? It all depends on who is available of course but it can be the same situation as Fleury. He wanted to be #1 so he waived and went to Vegas.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

It's a NMC and why do you think he negotiated it in his contract to where it covers him just past expansion. It's in there because he wanted expansion protection.

Have the parameters even been set yet for the expansion draft? If not it is also possible you can protect more players this time around and Management knows this already.

I think some research is in order to see what Vegas walked away with from some teams to "work around it". Saying it doesn't matter and who cares is just simply turning a blind eye and being uninformed.
The logic of they were already going to lose a player so what difference does it make is really comical.
- MJL

It is not comical, it further proves my point that a deal had to be reached anyways. It isnt about who cares we are losing someone. It is about us having to work around the expansion draft. It was something we already had to do. Vegas took picks and prospects to not take guys. If we have to do this with Seattle anyways why does it matter if we need to protect Hayes?

It's nothing to fold the team over, just super avoidable and annoying.

A team like Boston can make repeated 'absolutely (frank)ed' level mistakes (Kessel, Seguin, missing Matt Barzal despite having three cracks at him, etc) but the hockey gods let them get away with it and they're right back in the Finals.

The Flyers... they just can't have nice things. I'd rather not leave anything up to the hockey gods and have a GM that is careful to cross all the t's and dot all the i's.
- Tomahawk

I totally understand that. I mean, for real, the Braun deal doesn't want to make me jump off a cliff because it's only one year, but FFS, you don't have to throw a capped out team a 2nd, either

I get why people are losing their poop over this week. But I think Kevin Hayes is a legitimate 2C right now and for the next four or five years, on both sides of the puck. He thinks the game well and he makes plays for his wingers. He doesn't cheat on defense. He isn't Keith Primeau with regard to the nastiness, but he reminds me a little of how he plays. He's going to help them in a lot of ways.

Now, is that worth 7.1 large and NMC value?

I think, if he puts up the kind of season he did last year with all of the other things he brings, I think yeah, it is. I think if somebody told me that Nolan Patrick would do all the things I just said but top out at 55 points a season, then I would take that and pay him and protect that in an expansion draft.

We don't get the Patrick Kanes of the world. The Jack Eichels.

That used to not stop the Flyers from competing and winning. Doing the right things, playing the right way, and not waiting 20 years for Connor McDavid to fall into our laps while sitting on money that could be used to help the team.

So. That's where I am. I get where others disagree. I am on record that I wouldn't trade Ghost. I have no allegiance to Fletcher and Vigneault.

But I do think Hayes is a legitimate No. 2 center who can help them win, and I don't know that I wouldn't have paid him and gave him the NMC. Maybe I wouldn't have, but maybe I would've

Have the parameters even been set yet for the expansion draft? If not it is also possible you can protect more players this time around and Management knows this already.
- daryl stanley

Unlike last time, the GMs have known exactly what the rules are way ahead of time.

Lot of teams got caught with their pants down last time and paid dearly for it. 1st-round picks, top prospects, etc.

There's no excuse this time at all.

It's a NMC and why do you think he negotiated it in his contract to where it covers him just past expansion. It's in there because he wanted expansion protection.
- MJL

Yes he wants it now. The expansion draft is still years away. A lot can change in that time. Hayes may not be happy in Philly by then. You dont know!

Can't you see we're wallowing in sadness over here??
- bulet13

Well scootch over I want to wallow too.

It is not comical, it further proves my point that a deal had to be reached anyways. It isnt about who cares we are losing someone. It is about us having to work around the expansion draft. It was something we already had to do. Vegas took picks and prospects to not take guys. If we have to do this with Seattle anyways why does it matter if we need to protect Hayes?
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

That does not in any way change that the Flyers are going to have to expose another player that they would've protected if they hadn't signed Hayes and given him a NMC through expansion. You're trying to argue that nothing has changed and that is just false.

Yes he wants it now. The expansion draft is still years away. A lot can change in that time. Hayes may not be happy in Philly by then. You dont know!
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

I wouldn't count on it.

Unlike last time, the GMs have known exactly what the rules are way ahead of time.

Lot of teams got caught with their pants down last time and paid dearly for it. 1st-round picks, top prospects, etc.

There's no excuse this time at all.
- Tomahawk

I agree, so the same rules as last time?

Unlike last time, the GMs have known exactly what the rules are way ahead of time.

Lot of teams got caught with their pants down last time and paid dearly for it. 1st-round picks, top prospects, etc.

There's no excuse this time at all.
- Tomahawk

The steals that Vegas got off of teams is mind boggling to "work around it".

That does not in any way change that the Flyers are going to have to expose another player that they would've protected if they hadn't signed Hayes and given him a NMC through expansion. You're trying to argue that nothing has changed and that is just false.
- MJL

How does it not? Without Hayes they were going to need to pay Seattle to take a different player. Adding Hayes doesnt change that. What part of that is so hard to understand? If we are paying Seattle to take JVR instead of the other guys, exposing an extra guy doesnt matter because we are already paying them to take JVR(Hypothetically)

It will be a good five years before I decide if Hayes was worth it and if Fletcher planned far enough ahead to make this work. It’s so tight with the cap going forward that I feel it’s (The plan) is very reliant on the cap ceiling continually going up.