From Marleau's perspective, what actually happened is much better than what I was proposing.

Dude gets 2/3 of his salary and becomes a UFA.

It really couldn't have worked out better...for Marleau.
- Atomic Wedgie

He's 35+ when the deal was signed. Mutual breakup Leafs still have cap hit. Buyout is full amount, not 2/3. Those 35+ deals are danger...just ask the Kings with Kovy

I love the "get creative" part with no solutions offered up.

Retire? Can't because 35+ contract
Trade him to any team with space? Can't since NMC
Retain salary in deal? Can't, player has NMC + need the full cap space

It all really boiled down to Dubas had to pay a hefty price to move this along.

Only way to save it was to convince Benning that Marleau was better than Miller.
- Aaron_85

That Price hefty is only a lotto ticket. Late first rounders have a shot at being NHLers but a low chance of being really good players. Here's a list of players taken about 20th or later by the Leafs since 1992. Most recent picks (jury is still out on)

2013 Fredrik Gauthier #21
2011 Tyler Biggs #22
2011 Stuart Percy #25
2005 Tuuka Rask #21
2002 Alex Steen #24
2000 Brad Boyes #24
1999 Luca Cerada #24
1993 Landon Wilson #19
1992 Grant Marshal #23

Tuuka Rask and Steen were sold picks the rest were not much. Late first rounders are a crap shoot at best. Led Zep could write a song "Whole Lotta Crap"

in my opinion Dubas needed the capspace pre 1st of July, and mutual termination only interesting to Marleau post 1st of July..
- MaximusAurelius

It's not a surprise that the buyout window ends june 30th. It had to happen this week.

He's 35+ when the deal was signed. Mutual breakup Leafs still have cap hit. Buyout is full amount, not 2/3. Those 35+ deals are danger...just ask the Kings with Kovy
- Takemedrunkimhome

Its true - same with the lifetime contracts like Weber - just ask the Preds.

i am curious to know your solution
- senstroll

My solution usually contains Cortisone..

Wedgie provided the perfect solution - mutual agreement to terminate the contract.

In addition - might want to go back to last year's playoffs - quite a few people were saying how good Marleau was playing (one of the best on the team).
He had a mediocre season - not as if he cannot play ok next season.
Somehow however, Nylander with the pathetic season is 'bound to be better next season for sure, worth every penny of his 6.9mln caphit'.
- MaximusAurelius

I mean if you are a betting person.

The smart money is betting that WN has a better year than PM returning to OK

He's 35+ when the deal was signed. Mutual breakup Leafs still have cap hit. Buyout is full amount, not 2/3. Those 35+ deals are danger...just ask the Kings with Kovy
- Takemedrunkimhome

Here me out though:

My "theory" was that the Leafs wouldn't buy out Marleau. They would pay his first bonus on July 1st, then on July 2nd put him on unconditional waivers for the purpose of mutual agreement to termination of contract.

Marleau would like this because he'd collect a bit of his salary, then become a UFA, free to sign for minimum back in San Jose.

So here's the fun part: it's tough for me to tell, as I haven't read the actual rules (I don't know if they NHL actually made them public - they aren't in the 2005 CBA), but for 35+ players, the cap still counts, even if the dude retires.

But Marleau wouldn't be retiring. Did they think about this when writing the clause? Remember, the 2005 CBA and supporting documents were drawn up in haste - there were tons of loopholes that GMs were happy to drive trucks through.

Anyhoo, it's a moot point now (or mute point, here on Hockeybuzz).

It was a fun little theory for a year.

Its true - same with the lifetime contracts like Weber - just ask the Preds.
- winsix

Weber will play 3 or 4 more years, Habs will either buy him out and (frank) the Preds or ransom them for a $24m dead cap hit. That wasn't a 35+ deal though, just a back slider they outlawed in the current cba. 35+ are brutal...scary to do any more than 1 year for them

Looks like EK has solved all the Leafs problems in his latest blog.

Here me out though:

My "theory" was that the Leafs wouldn't buy out Marleau. They would pay his first bonus on July 1st, then on July 2nd put him on unconditional waivers for the purpose of mutual agreement to termination of contract.

Marleau would like this because he'd collect a bit of his salary, then become a UFA, free to sign for minimum back in San Jose.

So here's the fun part: it's tough for me to tell, as I haven't read the actual rules (I don't know if they NHL actually made them public - they aren't in the 2005 CBA), but for 35+ players, the cap still counts, even if the dude retires.

But Marleau wouldn't be retiring. Did they think about this when writing the clause? Remember, the 2005 CBA and supporting documents were drawn up in haste - there were tons of loopholes that GMs were happy to drive trucks through.

Anyhoo, it's a moot point now (or mute point, here on Hockeybuzz).

It was a fun little theory for a year.
- Atomic Wedgie

Year starts July 1. Bonus would go on Leafs cap, even a mutual breakup would retain the cap hit as it's a 35+ deal. 35+ deals are brutal and risky

Looks like EK has solved all the Leafs problems in his latest blog.
- BKups

Yeah, I don't see Zaitsev not being on the Leafs next year.

Here me out though:

My "theory" was that the Leafs wouldn't buy out Marleau. They would pay his first bonus on July 1st, then on July 2nd put him on unconditional waivers for the purpose of mutual agreement to termination of contract.

Marleau would like this because he'd collect a bit of his salary, then become a UFA, free to sign for minimum back in San Jose.

So here's the fun part: it's tough for me to tell, as I haven't read the actual rules (I don't know if they NHL actually made them public - they aren't in the 2005 CBA), but for 35+ players, the cap still counts, even if the dude retires.

But Marleau wouldn't be retiring. Did they think about this when writing the clause? Remember, the 2005 CBA and supporting documents were drawn up in haste - there were tons of loopholes that GMs were happy to drive trucks through.

Anyhoo, it's a moot point now (or mute point, here on Hockeybuzz).

It was a fun little theory for a year.
- Atomic Wedgie

Canes and Marleau might still agree on mutual termination.
Cue the criticism on the Leafs then
(I do understand Leafs needing to shed salary before 2nd/3rd of July, since they need to add at least 2 or maybe 3 UFAs 1st of July).

That Price hefty is only a lotto ticket. Late first rounders have a shot at being NHLers but a low chance of being really good players. Here's a list of players taken about 20th or later by the Leafs since 1992. Most recent picks (jury is still out on)

2013 Fredrik Gauthier #21
2011 Tyler Biggs #22
2011 Stuart Percy #25
2005 Tuuka Rask #21
2002 Alex Steen #24
2000 Brad Boyes #24
1999 Luca Cerada #24
1993 Landon Wilson #19
1992 Grant Marshal #23

Tuuka Rask and Steen were sold picks the rest were not much. Late first rounders are a crap shoot at best. Led Zep could write a song "Whole Lotta Crap"
- winsix

This is a bad argument.

It depends on who is making the picks.

The Leafs, since 2012, have drafted Rielly, Gauthier, Nylander, Marner, Matthews, Liljegren and Sandin. Whether it's an early 1st or a late 1st, all those guys are going to be populating the Leafs lineup with the most recent ones on cheap contracts.

Kapanen was a 22nd overall pick. Gardiner was a 17th overall pick.

The Leafs had to do it but the 1st round pick is still a hefty price and always has value if you know how to use them properly.

Considering the Leafs are going to need ELC to fill the lineup going forward, 1st round picks are the best way to get that goal accomplished and should really avoid trading them. I'm not sure even moving a 1st for Muzzin was a good idea.

Canes and Marleau might still agree on mutual termination.
Cue the criticism on the Leafs then
(I do understand Leafs needing to shed salary before 2nd/3rd of July, since they need to add at least 2 or maybe 3 UFAs 1st of July).
- MaximusAurelius

If the Canes (frank) Marleau they'll never get free agents again and nobody will trust their management team. Marleau is getting his money and going back to Cali

Wedgie provided the perfect solution - mutual agreement to terminate the contract.

In addition - might want to go back to last year's playoffs - quite a few people were saying how good Marleau was playing (one of the best on the team).
He had a mediocre season - not as if he cannot play ok next season.
Somehow however, Nylander with the pathetic season is 'bound to be better next season for sure, worth every penny of his 6.9mln caphit'.
- MaximusAurelius

Ridiculous.

Year starts July 1. Bonus would go on Leafs cap, even a mutual breakup would retain the cap hit as it's a 35+ deal. 35+ deals are brutal and risky
- Takemedrunkimhome

Two things:

1) Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the bonus would go on the cap - as cap hits are total/365.

2) I have seen absolutely nothing to say that a mutual termination of contract for a 35+ player would count against cap. I fully admit that I have no idea if it would work or not, but there's no way you can definitively say that it couldn't, as I'm assuming you haven't seen the actual rules, either, as the NHL hasn't ever disclosed them.

But getting back to my earlier post, it's all a moot point now.

Year starts July 1. Bonus would go on Leafs cap, even a mutual breakup would retain the cap hit as it's a 35+ deal. 35+ deals are brutal and risky
- Takemedrunkimhome

I don't think that's true; look at Plekanec when he was 36y old; Bergevin said Habs wouldn't have any plekanec caphit after mutual termination
https://www.tsn.ca/habs-p...itional-waivers-1.1206911

Canes and Marleau might still agree on mutual termination.
Cue the criticism on the Leafs then
(I do understand Leafs needing to shed salary before 2nd/3rd of July, since they need to add at least 2 or maybe 3 UFAs 1st of July).
- MaximusAurelius

If the 'canes employ the

Wedgie Solution ®

I will lose my poop.

But I don't see why you think they needed the cap space on July 1 - they can go 10% over the cap in the summer.

This is a bad argument.

It depends on who is making the picks.

The Leafs, since 2012, have drafted Rielly, Gauthier, Nylander, Marner, Matthews, Liljegren and Sandin. Whether it's an early 1st or a late 1st, all those guys are going to be populating the Leafs lineup with the most recent ones on cheap contracts.

Kapanen was a 22nd overall pick. Gardiner was a 17th overall pick.

The Leafs had to do it but the 1st round pick is still a hefty price and always has value if you know how to use them properly.

Considering the Leafs are going to need ELC to fill the lineup going forward, 1st round picks are the best way to get that goal accomplished and should really avoid trading them. I'm not sure even moving a 1st for Muzzin was a good idea.
- JohnFergusonJr

have you considered that the Leafs have 4 picks in the 7th round next draft?

so they basically have a 1st

I don't think that's true; look at Plekanec when he was 36y old; Bergevin said Habs wouldn't have any plekanec caphit after mutual termination
https://www.tsn.ca/habs-p...itional-waivers-1.1206911
- MaximusAurelius

That was on a one-year contract, though, so it is different.

If the Canes (frank) Marleau they'll never get free agents again and nobody will trust their management team. Marleau is getting his money and going back to Cali
- Takemedrunkimhome

Marleau had a NMC. No way in hell he's just blindly going to Carolina to wait and see what happens - it would have all been laid out to him before he agreed to the trade.

have you considered that the Leafs have 4 picks in the 7th round next draft?

so they basically have a 1st
- senstroll

I see your draft pick math and raise you four Zetterbergs.

That Price hefty is only a lotto ticket. Late first rounders have a shot at being NHLers but a low chance of being really good players. Here's a list of players taken about 20th or later by the Leafs since 1992. Most recent picks (jury is still out on)

2013 Fredrik Gauthier #21
2011 Tyler Biggs #22
2011 Stuart Percy #25
2005 Tuuka Rask #21
2002 Alex Steen #24
2000 Brad Boyes #24
1999 Luca Cerada #24
1993 Landon Wilson #19
1992 Grant Marshal #23

Tuuka Rask and Steen were sold picks the rest were not much. Late first rounders are a crap shoot at best. Led Zep could write a song "Whole Lotta Crap"
- winsix

Right which I'm also happy with. It's just a lotto ticket.

We moved out Marleau to sign a first round pick in Kapanen as well as a 7th round pick in Johnsson.

That Price hefty is only a lotto ticket. Late first rounders have a shot at being NHLers but a low chance of being really good players. Here's a list of players taken about 20th or later by the Leafs since 1992. Most recent picks (jury is still out on)

2013 Fredrik Gauthier #21
2011 Tyler Biggs #22
2011 Stuart Percy #25
2005 Tuuka Rask #21
2002 Alex Steen #24
2000 Brad Boyes #24
1999 Luca Cerada #24
1993 Landon Wilson #19
1992 Grant Marshal #23

Tuuka Rask and Steen were sold picks the rest were not much. Late first rounders are a crap shoot at best. Led Zep could write a song "Whole Lotta Crap"
- winsix

Without Landon Wilson, we don't get Sundin.

That was on a one-year contract, though, so it is different.
- Atomic Wedgie

why?