You just gave Lou credit for trades he didnt make, and your point still stands.

You just gave him credit for getting rid of one of the worst contracts in history as you put it, and Dubas had more to do with that then Lou, but it doesnt matter right?
- Archaic

my comment was in support of Lou, not 'against Dubas'. I didn't even bring up Dubas in my post.

I'm still not sure whether Z is worth a 7th or if it's gonna cost a 2nd to get rid of him
- 21peter

I actually think the Zaitsev hate has gone too far. He's an adequate #4 dman if paired with someone who is adequate defensively. If he's allowed to be a bit more offensive, he seems to get involved in the play better. The issue i see is he's not allowed in the offensive zone and was basically tasked with staying back because of Gardiner.

Once paired with Muzzin, he was fine. If the Leafs had a plethora of options, I could see him traded, but i don't know how they fix losing Gardiner, Hainsey, Zaitsev and Dermott (for most of the season) in one summer.

I've been wrong before, but i doubt Zaitsev is moved this offseason. His contract is too long, but that doesn't affect them now.

winnipeg - edmonton - ottawa - calgary - buffalo - carolina - new jersey - minnesota - detroit .. i guess most of these 9 will be on his list (?).

vancouver / anaheim / columbus / nyi biggest options for him?
- MaximusAurelius

I'd say Zona in and Jersey out, but who knows

It seems like Leaf players are just viewed with les value than any other team. Dreger claimed Zaitsev is untradeable this morning. Would that be the case if he played in Carolina or Florida?

He's a 27 year-old RH D making 4.5 million and had a very strong playoffs.

I actually think the Zaitsev hate has gone too far. He's an adequate #4 dman if paired with someone who is adequate defensively. If he's allowed to be a bit more offensive, he seems to get involved in the play better. The issue i see is he's not allowed in the offensive zone and was basically tasked with staying back because of Gardiner.

Once paired with Muzzin, he was fine. If the Leafs had a plethora of options, I could see him traded, but i don't know how they fix losing Gardiner, Hainsey, Zaitsev and Dermott (for most of the season) in one summer.

I've been wrong before, but i doubt Zaitsev is moved this offseason. His contract is too long, but that doesn't affect them now.
- walshyleafsfan

sounds fair!

Kessel - Nonis (Dubas not hired yet)
Clarkson - Nonis (Dubas not hired yet)
Marleau - Lou
Zaitsev -Lou
- JACMAN

Dubas was part of Leafs organization at time of the Kessel and Clarkson deals though.
(on the Clarkson deal - I had forgotten that it was reported that it was actually Columbus that came up with the proposal, probably best to not give too much credit to anyone on Leafs' side - unless that report was incorrect (in order to make the cap-cirumventing issue less obvious)).

Kessel - Nonis (Dubas not hired yet)
Clarkson - Nonis (Dubas not hired yet)
Marleau - Lou
Zaitsev -Lou
- JACMAN

https://www.nhl.com/maple...rade-and-2015-16/c-773835
https://theleafsnation.co...-to-be-the-next-leafs-gm/

my comment was in support of Lou, not 'against Dubas'. I didn't even bring up Dubas in my post.
- MaximusAurelius

Yeah, but everything always come back to your hate for Dubas...its pretty obvious.

https://www.nhl.com/mapleleafs/news/kyle-dubas-on-the-pittsburgh-trade-and-2015-16/c-773835
https://theleafsnation.co...-to-be-the-next-leafs-gm/

- Archaic

you should add though, that Pittsburgh offered Matt Murray in the deal for Kessel and Leafs (/Dubas) didn't want any part of that..

I actually think the Zaitsev hate has gone too far. He's an adequate #4 dman if paired with someone who is adequate defensively. If he's allowed to be a bit more offensive, he seems to get involved in the play better. The issue i see is he's not allowed in the offensive zone and was basically tasked with staying back because of Gardiner.

Once paired with Muzzin, he was fine. If the Leafs had a plethora of options, I could see him traded, but i don't know how they fix losing Gardiner, Hainsey, Zaitsev and Dermott (for most of the season) in one summer.

I've been wrong before, but i doubt Zaitsev is moved this offseason. His contract is too long, but that doesn't affect them now.
- walshyleafsfan

I agree with most of your take on Zaitsev, but I do think he will be moved. Just have a feeling that because the playoff matchups have not yet changed, there is still a great chance that the Leafs will play Boston in the first round. Zaitsev can skate and defend, but he is on the soft side for sure. Muzzin helped Leafs in that area and it would make sense to replace Zaitsev with a tougher RHD - perhaps Collin Miller for that 1st round matchup.

Yeah, but everything always come back to your hate for Dubas...its pretty obvious.
- Archaic

I don't hate Dubas.
I just think he's not the best GM for Leafs.
(I literally mentioned earlier that I think that Dubas would make a better President than a GM; and I think a better President than Shanahan).

you should add though, that Pittsburgh offered Matt Murray in the deal for Kessel and Leafs (/Dubas) didn't want any part of that..
- MaximusAurelius

All hearsay....no one knows if that was true or not. Looking back at it, it turned out pretty well for the Leafs...Kap/Andersen. Not bad

It seems like Leaf players are just viewed with les value than any other team. Dreger claimed Zaitsev is untradeable this morning. Would that be the case if he played in Carolina or Florida?

He's a 27 year-old RH D making 4.5 million and had a very strong playoffs.
- RogerRoeper

He's also had a few down years and 4.5 isn't chump change. He's also signed through 2024 so that is a tough contract.

That's why he is gone after his bonus.
Simply put, impossible to win a cup with approx 50% of your total caphit spent on just 4 players (Matthews 11.6; Tavares 11; Marner 10.5 (for argument's sake); Nylander 6.9 --> 40mln / 81.5 is almost 50%).

The logical solution would then to trade the least out of those 4 players - which would be Nylander (there is really no argument there).

who was the guy I had a bet with regarding Nylander being traded yes/no before start of next season? I better start picking my good cause foundation for your donation soon :D
- MaximusAurelius

that was me, write that poop down. Its the second time you asked

I don't hate Dubas.
I just think he's not the best GM for Leafs.
(I literally mentioned earlier that I think that Dubas would make a better President than a GM; and I think a better President than Shanahan).
- MaximusAurelius

You say that, but your posts tell a different story.

I agree with most of your take on Zaitsev, but I do think he will be moved. Just have a feeling that because the playoff matchups have not yet changed, there is still a great chance that the Leafs will play Boston in the first round. Zaitsev can skate and defend, but he is on the soft side for sure. Muzzin helped Leafs in that area and it would make sense to replace Zaitsev with a tougher RHD - perhaps Collin Miller for that 1st round matchup.
- winsix

except Zaitsev is much tougher than Colin Miller.
you realise that Colin Miller is an offensive D-man who is rather smallish and doesn't play very tough, right?

You say that, but your posts tell a different story.
- Archaic

well yeah i just posted earlier on Dubas being a better President than GM, but I guess that doesn't count?

To CBJ:

Marner
Brown
Zaitsev
Liljegren

To TOR:

Jones
Jenner
Anderson

To VGK:

Lindgren
2020 6th

To TOR:

Miller

To ANA:

Miller
Bracco

To TOR:

Manson


Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Johnsson-Tavares-Anderson
Jenner-Kadri-Kapanen
Marchment-Gauthier-Moore

Muzzin-Jones
Rielly-Manson
Rosen-Dermott


Plan the parade.

well yeah i just posted earlier on Dubas being a better President than GM, but I guess that doesn't count?
- MaximusAurelius

One post in thousands of posts...no it doesnt count You also at the same time referred to him for a different position.

so leafs are going with

Rielly-Muzzin
Dermott - Holl
Rosen - Liljegren
on D
and Sparks as a backup goalie?

this year not aiming for playoffs?
- MaximusAurelius

I would assume we'll see Duszak at some point this season. He was the best D in NCAA, has a little more age to him ( I think he's 21) and he's RHD making the league minimum. I would think he'll get 25 games with the Marlies and then be up with the Leafs.

you should add though, that Pittsburgh offered Matt Murray in the deal for Kessel and Leafs (/Dubas) didn't want any part of that..
- MaximusAurelius

I would still do the same now.
They got Kap and 1st that they used to Get Anderson.

I remember that Dubas was criticized pretty hard by a lot of fans for not getting enough for Kessel.

He was schooled on that deal I was told.

we both know that deals signed in Florida aren't comparables that can be used.....and to pretend they are is just stupid.

a deal that has an 8 mil aav in florida is probably a 10-10.5 deal anywhere else.
- sensarmy_11

On a 9.5m salary the difference in taxes between tampa and Toronto is 1.567m
36% compared to 53%.
So if marner wants a kuch type of money (after taxes) a year later and what, 4 years younger. His salary would have to be 11m per.
Right now kuch takes home just over 6.02m per year, after taxes at 11m, marner would take home 5.865m.

So there you go, marnee would take home less than kuch.
Now everyone can STFU.

Of course there's cost of living, currency etc to consider. But still stfu, marner isnt the only rfa superstar not signed yet

He's also had a few down years and 4.5 isn't chump change. He's also signed through 2024 so that is a tough contract.
- RickJames77

He did play well in the playoffs.

So that's like 7 good games for 2 years of mediocrity. (His first year was pretty good though)

At a hefty price. For a long time.

Oh and the guy wants to be traded so he can have a better role suited for himself.

Is there anyone surprised he's not in high demand?

I would assume we'll see Duszak at some point this season. He was the best D in NCAA, has a little more age to him ( I think he's 21) and he's RHD making the league minimum. I would think he'll get 25 games with the Marlies and then be up with the Leafs.
- MrBen

No he wasn't.

No he wasn't.
- RickJames77

Wasn't Cale Makar in the NCAA Rick?

I feel like he was better but maybe that's just me.