Max is in the "blow it all up again" camp.

I like it.
- Scabeh

please explain yourself?
for suggesting to trade Kadri, Nylander and Muzzin for equal/better players on better contracts?

please explain yourself?
for suggesting to trade Kadri, Nylander and Muzzin for equal/better players on better contracts?
- MaximusAurelius

When you decide to trade 3-4 players from your core (you mentionned Marner as well), I'd call this at least a partial "blow up your team and rebuilding it".

But that's just me.

It's the equivalent of the Habs deciding to trade Domi, Drouin, Petry and Gallagher. Pretty sure the team wouldn't be the same afterwards.

Would it be better? Who knows. But it wouldn't be the same.

When you decide to trade 3-4 players from your core (you mentionned Marner as well), I'd call this at least a partial "blow up your team and rebuilding it".

But that's just me.
- Scabeh

wait.
i never wanted to trade Marner.
I said keep Marner-Matthews-Tavares-Rielly 100%.
rest might all fall victim to the cap.

wait.
i never wanted to trade Marner.
I said keep Marner-Matthews-Tavares-Rielly 100%.
rest might all fall victim to the cap.
- MaximusAurelius

I know you don't wanna trade Marner, but you speculated on getting the four first rounders is all.

I'm sure the trolls are laughing, saying that Dubas needs to be tough as nails, like crafty old veteran Lou.

Except, you know, Lou didn't hold down salaries a single dollar in his time here in Toronto.
- Atomic Wedgie

I think that's also a bit unfair. Lou did some great things here as well.

GOOD

Kadri: 6 years @ 4.5m
Rielly: 6 years @ 5m
Andersen: 5 years @ 5m
Hyman: 4 years @ 2.25m
Brown: 3 years @ 2.1m

MEH:

Polak: 1 year @ 2.25m
Polak: 1 year @ 1m
Leivo: 1 year @ 925k
Hainsey: 2 years @ 3m
Moore: 1 year @ 1m
McElhinney: 2 years @ 850k

BAD:

Marleau: 3 years @ 6.25m
Martin: 4 years @ 2.5m
Zaitsev: 7 years @ 4.5m

. . . I put Martin in the BAD because most people thought it was a terrible contract. I didn't really sweat the $2.5m myself and the young kids liked him, so personally it wasn't THAT bad to me.

You could even argue that for what he brought, Hainsey was actually a pretty good signing.

I know you don't wanna trade Marner, but you speculated on getting the four first rounders is all.
- Scabeh

Wedgie said it's Kadri + Nylander + 4 1st rounders
vs.
Marner

and I said he should look at it as Kadri + Nylander + 4 1st rounders
vs
Marner + return on Kadri and Nylander

that's all.

Wedgie, you didn't get back to me on the:

Marner + return for Nylander and Kadri (around 4 1sts in my view; either in picks or players)

vs.

Kadri + Nylander + Marner return (4 1sts).

?
- MaximusAurelius

I'm not quite sure what you are asking me, but if it is "Do you trade Nylander and Kadri and keep Marner vs. Do you let Marner go, collect 4 1st and keep Nylander and Kadri", then my answer is:

It's impossible to evaluate until I see what would be coming the other way, and what team is offer-sheeting Marner.

Quite frankly, I have no problem with either scenario.

Nylander showed up 3 months late, out of shape.

Kadri has torpedoed the last two playoff runs.

I'd have no problem shipping out either or both.

If Marner is throwing a pouting fit over some stupid ELC bonuses, I'll take the picks, thank you very much. I don't mind players making sure they get paid fairly, but if indeed he's just being petulant, well then enjoy your time in Ottawa or Columbus.

I'm not quite sure what you are asking me, but if it is "Do you trade Nylander and Kadri and keep Marner vs. Do you let Marner go, collect 4 1st and keep Nylander and Kadri", then my answer is:

It's impossible to evaluate until I see what would be coming the other way, and what team is offer-sheeting Marner.

Quite frankly, I have no problem with either scenario.

Nylander showed up 3 months late, out of shape.

Kadri has torpedoed the last two playoff runs.

I'd have no problem shipping out either or both.

If Marner is throwing a pouting fit over some stupid ELC bonuses, I'll take the picks, thank you very much. I don't mind players making sure they get paid fairly, but if indeed he's just being petulant, well then enjoy your time in Ottawa or Columbus.
- Atomic Wedgie

yes.
that was my point - I actually expect that the potential return in trades for Nylander and Kadri would be better (at least considering Leafs' current situation) than 4 1st round picks in offersheet.
I actually think that Leafs would be better off trading Marner (e.g. Tkachuk ++) than the offersheet.

However, I think best for Leafs is to keep Marner, and potentially trade Nylander and Kadri to change the team composition.

By the way, I think the Marner criticism is really harsh; it's not even 1st of July.
People were celebrating Matthews' new deal - and that was really bad (not speaking AAV, but he just signed for 5y!).

I am surprised how quickly things are turning on Mitch

Fans not happy
- senstroll

Until Mitch himself actually signs his contract or an offer sheet,, this is all about his agent ( and maybe his Dad) exploiting the media for maximum contract exposure, value and resulting agent commission.

Until then, this isn't about Mitch himself, and fans should not turn on him.

(frank) his agent, Dreger, and anyone else who's exploiting the centre of the hockey universe...it's (frank)ing sickening.

I am surprised how quickly things are turning on Mitch

Fans not happy
- senstroll

He went last and the frustration is accumulating.

The Nylander fiasco last year, then Matthews signing his Go-home-like-Tavares contract, and now Mitch with the ahole dad and douchebag agent threatening to solicit offersheets.

Honestly, if players don't want to be here, then (frank) them. Why, as a fan, should any of us want to cheer for someone who apparently places no value on being on the Leafs.

Until Mitch himself actually signs his contract or an offer sheet,, this is all about his agent ( and maybe his Dad) exploiting the media for maximum contract exposure, value and resulting agent commission.

Until then, this isn't about Mitch himself, and fans should not turn on him.

(frank) his agent, Dreger, and anyone else who's exploiting the centre of the hockey universe...it's (frank)ing sickening.
- jimi james

Sorry, this is on Marner. The bottom line is, he expects to be treated like an adult and make millions of dollars. It is 100% on him how he allows his father and agent to handle his affairs.

He is the boss; not them.

Until Mitch himself actually signs his contract or an offer sheet,, this is all about his agent ( and maybe his Dad) exploiting the media for maximum contract exposure, value and resulting agent commission.

Until then, this isn't about Mitch himself, and fans should not turn on him.

(frank) his agent, Dreger, and anyone else who's exploiting the centre of the hockey universe...it's (frank)ing sickening.
- jimi james

here's negotiating tactics 101, by agent extraordinaire, david ferris.

1) Step 1 - pretend that offer sheets are coming. when that fails because there are none...

2) say marner is moving to europe for the summer. when that empty threat creates zero leverage .....

3) say that you are mulling over a few KHL offers, but say it a condescending way which makes it seems as if mitch has no say in the matter. when that sham fails...

4) sign a 9.516M 6 year offer on Oct 2nd. Celebrate getting dubas to come up from his 9.500M offer than has been on the table since june.

He went last and the frustration is accumulating.

The Nylander fiasco last year, then Matthews signing his Go-home-like-Tavares contract, and now Mitch with the ahole dad and douchebag agent threatening to solicit offersheets.

Honestly, if players don't want to be here, then (frank) them. Why, as a fan, should any of us want to cheer for someone who apparently places no value on being on the Leafs.
- Aetherial

Fans have to stop thinking the players care about the team as their #1 priority. It's all about money/term....then when that is is equivalent...yes the city/team matter.

Until Mitch himself actually signs his contract or an offer sheet,, this is all about his agent ( and maybe his Dad) exploiting the media for maximum contract exposure, value and resulting agent commission.

Until then, this isn't about Mitch himself, and fans should not turn on him.

(frank) his agent, Dreger, and anyone else who's exploiting the centre of the hockey universe...it's (frank)ing sickening.
- jimi james

I know he looks like a kid, but the guy is an adult now.

He's at the centre of those decisions and can influence them any way he likes.

Fans have to stop thinking the players care about the team as their #1 priority. It's all about money/term....then when that is is equivalent...yes the city/team matter.
- Symba007

Bang on.

With a few exceptions here and there around the league.

Fans have to stop thinking the players care about the team as their #1 priority. It's all about money/term....then when that is is equivalent...yes the city/team matter.
- Symba007

Sadly true. I know Montreal has felt some of this also.

He went last and the frustration is accumulating.

The Nylander fiasco last year, then Matthews signing his Go-home-like-Tavares contract, and now Mitch with the ahole dad and douchebag agent threatening to solicit offersheets.

Honestly, if players don't want to be here, then (frank) them. Why, as a fan, should any of us want to cheer for someone who apparently places no value on being on the Leafs.
- Aetherial

Are people still thinking Matthews can't wait to join the Coyotees? Good lord. they are a mess and will probably move within 5 years.

I know he looks like a kid, but the guy is an adult now.

He's at the centre of those decisions and can influence them any way he likes.
- Scabeh

He is the boss and he makes the call.

I find it laughable that players hide behind their agents and fans buy into it.

Are people still thinking Matthews can't wait to join the Coyotees? Good lord. they are a mess and will probably move within 5 years.
- RogerRoeper

No idea, but I know he won't be here unless the Leafs offer more than anyone else.

I doubt he has even the smallest sliver of loyalty to the city or fanbase.

He is the boss and he makes the call.

I find it laughable that players hide behind their agents and fans buy into it.
- Aetherial

It's a PR move really.

Contract negociations can get pretty ugly. By claiming he's "letting it all in the hands of his agent while I focus on hockey" he takes the heat away from himself.

Obviously it works.

I am surprised how quickly things are turning on Mitch

Fans not happy
- senstroll

Negotiating entirely through the media will tend to do that, I guess.

Especially when the things the agent are seemingly putting out to try and get things in his clients favour are actually still ridiculous asks on their part.

Brutally bad. But, won't see me argue that fact.

yet....Tell a Leafer they have Cap issues because of 40+ million going on just 4 guys, and you would think you kicked them in the p u z z ____. I know, Leafs are in great shape. No Cap issues at all. Defense will be solid, probably 4 all-stars. Back up goalie likely Price, on a reduced 1.5 million deal. Ya, we get it. Man, hard to talk hockey to butt-hurt Leaf fans. There are a few however that can chat reality...but the rest...my, oh my.
- hawk35

It took us all year to convince some leafs fans on here that the cap will be a issue come this time.

I am surprised how quickly things are turning on Mitch

Fans not happy
- senstroll

There is not a lot to be happy about.. At first it was just Dreger making the dumb claims, but now, it's not just Dreger..
That pisses people off.

How can someone say the grew up a Leafs fan, and it's dream come true to play for them and then decide to hold the Leafs hostage for max dollars?

I am surprised how quickly things are turning on Mitch

Fans not happy
- senstroll

Fans need to be patient.
No other superstar rfa has signed yet either

Sorry, this is on Marner. The bottom line is, he expects to be treated like an adult and make millions of dollars. It is 100% on him how he allows his father and agent to handle his affairs.

He is the boss; not them.
- Aetherial

yes. if he wants a man-sized contract, it's time to step up and be his own man.