Soderberg for Connauton. Dang. Soderberg would have made a nice 3RW. And for Connauton? Dude is a stiff. Could have easily been Haag for Soderberg (+/- picks). This one's a head scratcher for me considering the D the Avs already have. Gotta figure Barrie is on the move.

What are you confused about? I said yes, i said it.

But you talk about fluid and yet you keep saying the flyers are this team that is worrying about the future later? You know there is fluidity in that too.

I understand how ice time is earned. but I also understand at this point, they seem to have a plan of Bruan and Niskanen in the top 4 with Provorov and Sanheim.

If things are going well, then i wouldn't anticipate changes unless someone is hurt.

My opinion, which you don't seem to understand is mine, is that his ice time could be limited with the signings so i am not sure he'll get back to the point total where we think.

If that's the case i think a smart hockey trade can be made with Gostisbehere.
- J35Bacher

Let me put this as clearly as I can. Your opinion is not hard to understand. You're arguing against yourself and the statements that you've made. One minute it's already determined, the next post it's not.

Let me say this. If we have a team where the ice time given out is already determined and not based on the play of players and the team has arbitrarily decided to play a 32 year old player with one year on his contract over a player like Gostisbehere, then we have the wrong people running the team. Not to mention that coaches sometimes have a different view than the pre determined idea that the GM had in the off season when it's actual playing time.

Fletcher 8 years as Wild GM.

2 DNQ for playoffs
4 first round exits

Never got a team out of the second round.
Does that mean he will be awful in Philly? Not necessarily, but what makes you confident the results will be different?
- PLindbergh31

Hopefully they draft and develop guys better in Philly because that’s really the key to success.

I like the young D here and Carter Hart. They could be part of a championship team if they continue their path.

I like how he’s approached this off season with the exception of the Braun trade and even that one I can understand the reasons behind it.

I guess I’d rather be optimistic, life is short.

His record in Minnesota wasn’t great but it doesn’t predict the future for Philly

Soderberg for Connauton. Dang. Soderberg would have made a nice 3RW. And for Connauton? Dude is a stiff. Could have easily been Haag for Soderberg (+/- picks). This one's a head scratcher for me considering the D the Avs already have. Gotta figure Barrie is on the move.
- Levit8

Would have much rather a Soderberg stopgap then 7 years of Hayes.

The #Flyers will have 17 sets of back to backs this season. A backup goalie is going to be very important when it comes down to these back to backs. Especially near the end of the season. The flyers have yet to sign a backup to Carter Hart. 13 of them are 3 games in 4 nights.

Fletcher 8 years as Wild GM.

2 DNQ for playoffs
4 first round exits

Never got a team out of the second round.
Does that mean he will be awful in Philly? Not necessarily, but what makes you confident the results will be different?
- PLindbergh31

So basically slightly more successful then Hexy. =)

To this point I have no issues with the moves Fletcher has made.
Of all of them I am least excited by the Braun move and thought he had a very solid draft.

So with that being said I feel like he at least deserves the same chance Hextall got though without the years of padding due to where the team is.

Would have loved something like that Soderberg trade over the Hayes extension.
- ClaudeFather

It would have been a different approach and maybe a great one. Soderburg is 33, nearly 5m cap and I think 1 year left. He’s a middle six C that would have plugged a hole for a year, giving Patrick another season and allowing time for Frost to get here. More of a temporary fix where Hayes is now part of their core.

Hopefully they draft and develop guys better in Philly because that’s really the key to success.

I like the young D here and Carter Hart. They could be part of a championship team if they continue their path.

I like how he’s approached this off season with the exception of the Braun trade and even that one I can understand the reasons behind it.

I guess I’d rather be optimistic, life is short.

His record in Minnesota wasn’t great but it doesn’t predict the future for Philly
- Marc D

Agreed. In my post I said his results in Minnesota doesn't mean he will be bad in Philly, but his past results are what we have to go on. You like the Hayes signing? In order for Hayes not to test the market on July 1, you know what that means? It means Fletcher gave in to every one of Hayes' demands. Is that good business? Don't get me wrong there are players you have to be willing to do this for. Players who are true difference makers. Kevin Hayes isn't one of those players. Not by a long shot.

Let me put this as clearly as I can. Your opinion is not hard to understand. You're arguing against yourself and the statements that you've made. One minute it's already determined, the next post it's not.

Let me say this. If we have a team where the ice time given out is already determined and not based on the play of players and the team has arbitrarily decided to play a 32 year old player with one year on his contract over a player like Gostisbehere, then we have the wrong people running the team. Not to mention that coaches sometimes have a different view than the pre determined idea that the GM had in the off season when it's actual playing time.
- MJL

Let me put this as clear as i can.

The moves made seem to have the idea of Braun and Niskanen in the top 4. Can that change. Yes. But going into camp I am sure they have a starting point for where each guys slots.

Hell this could all be moot if someone is traded.

Would have much rather a Soderberg stopgap then 7 years of Hayes.
- ClaudeFather

Depends if your a Hayes fan.
He could be a very solid guy for them.
7 yrs is risky though. I think Vigneau had a lot of influence on this decision, hopefully he’s right.

If I check how many players drafted after him have more than 8 NHL games played, and 0 points how many will I find?
- PLindbergh31

Émile Poirier 8 games played 0-1-1

wow he has one more point! but hes also a forward so

Morgan Klimchuk 0-0-0 in 1 game played also first round pick played even less than Morin

It would have been a different approach and maybe a great one. Soderburg is 33, nearly 5m cap and I think 1 year left. He’s a middle six C that would have plugged a hole for a year, giving Patrick another season and allowing time for Frost to get here. More of a temporary fix where Hayes is now part of their core.
- Marc D

Exactly, people probably would have female dogged but I think with the unknown in Patrick and maybe even Frost a stop gap would have been the right play. Also, I'd like to think the trade market would be better the following year with the cap coming and if we needed the long term 2C it could have been figured out then.

Let me put this as clear as i can.

The moves made seem to have the idea of Braun and Niskanen in the top 4. Can that change. Yes. But going into camp I am sure they have a starting point for where each guys slots.

Hell this could all be moot if someone is traded.
- J35Bacher

Not sure why you don't think I understand that.


It's just an idea!

So basically slightly more successful then Hexy. =)

To this point I have no issues with the moves Fletcher has made.
Of all of them I am least excited by the Braun move and thought he had a very solid draft.

So with that being said I feel like he at least deserves the same chance Hextall got though without the years of padding due to where the team is.
- opeth_pa

Hextall made 3 fatal mistakes in his tenure as Flyers GM imo.

1. Hiring of Hakstol/refusal to fire him
2. Not supplementing good drafting through trade/free agency
3. Bringing back the goaltending duo of Elliott/Neuvirth. I honestly have zero clue how he thought that would work. Mind boggling.

Depends if your a Hayes fan.
He could be a very solid guy for them.
7 yrs is risky though. I think Vigneau had a lot of influence on this decision, hopefully he’s right.
- Marc D

Hayes is a good player who is going to help make them better. The issue is looking at the future which is certainly not any guarantee, what happens when Frost comes on board, which many believe is not far away. Sure he can start on the wing but in 2 years or so will he be ready to take over at center? Patrick could break out also, or he couldn't. What do you believe and what is the smart thing to do. Believe in the young players or hedge your bets. Hayes could, and I emphasize could become a 7M role player. I know you won't but some will reply the cap is going to go up and his cap hit won't be so big relative to that in a few years. It doesn't wash if the latter is what happens. How much does he move the bar?

Agreed. In my post I said his results in Minnesota doesn't mean he will be bad in Philly, but his past results are what we have to go on. You like the Hayes signing? In order for Hayes not to test the market on July 1, you know what that means? It means Fletcher gave in to every one of Hayes' demands. Is that good business? Don't get me wrong there are players you have to be willing to do this for. Players who are true difference makers. Kevin Hayes isn't one of those players. Not by a long shot.
- PLindbergh31

He spent the max to get Hayes. The only real difference maker available is Panarin who I don’t think they have a shot at. Karlsson maybe but not a fit and SJ locked him up.

They needed a 2c badly to compete in the metro now. The GM had a mandate from his boss. I’m sure AV told them Hayes was worth offering a long term deal and would be a valuable core player for them. He was aggressive giving up a 5th for the rights, giving 7 yr term, and the awful nmc. But he got it done. Sometimes those franchise players are rarely available but I don’t think there was anyone this year and I do believe he had orders from above. So given all that I think the GM did better than ok, in making them potentially a lot better.

Was just looking at the Flyers 2019-2020 schedule.
17 back to backs, thirteen of which are 3 games in 4 nights. Yeah, they are going to need a reliable backup goaltender for sure.

17 sets of back to backs and 13 of them are a 3-in-4 situation

Tough schedule

Agreed. In my post I said his results in Minnesota doesn't mean he will be bad in Philly, but his past results are what we have to go on. You like the Hayes signing? In order for Hayes not to test the market on July 1, you know what that means? It means Fletcher gave in to every one of Hayes' demands. Is that good business? Don't get me wrong there are players you have to be willing to do this for. Players who are true difference makers. Kevin Hayes isn't one of those players. Not by a long shot.
- PLindbergh31

If hayes stays healthy and produces at the same rate or better now that hes playing with better players then yes that is good business. Not only did he average almost a 63 point season if healthy, but he is also reliable defensively and on the pk which we desperately needed to lighten the load on G and Coots

He spent the max to get Hayes. The only real difference maker available is Panarin who I don’t think they have a shot at. Karlsson maybe but not a fit and SJ locked him up.

They needed a 2c badly to compete in the metro now. The GM had a mandate from his boss. I’m sure AV told them Hayes was worth offering a long term deal and would be a valuable core player for them. He was aggressive giving up a 5th for the rights, giving 7 yr term, and the awful nmc. But he got it done. Sometimes those franchise players are rarely available but I don’t think there was anyone this year and I do believe he had orders from above. So given all that I think the GM did better than ok, in making them potentially a lot better.
- Marc D

Only difference maker in free agency. There are also trades. The Devils just gave up a load of trash for PK Subban. I understand he might not be a 9 million dollar dman anymore, but he's still damn good. If the Flyers didn't make the Niskanen/Braun trades could this been on the table for them? It's possible. I'll tell you this I'd rather have Subban than Niskanen and Braun.

Frankly I think it is insane to trade Ghost. Not only that, it is even more insane that the acquisition of Braun, a guy here on a one year deal who doesn't figure in to the long term plans of this team, is part of why that may happen.

On top of that, With Ghost's contract being as good as it is, coupled with the cap issues this team has, you are not going to get value back for what Ghost is worth in a trade for a forward.

Can't be for Niskanen because someone ELSE would have to go too to make the cap work...now you are looking at two ROSTER players lost for Braun...

Who are some good forwards available at around 4.5 or less for the next 4 seasons who are also available for trade?

Normally Ghost should be able to get a damned good player in return, but he isn't because of the cap....

Hayes is a good player who is going to help make them better. The issue is looking at the future which is certainly not any guarantee, what happens when Frost comes on board, which many believe is not far away. Sure he can start on the wing but in 2 years or so will he be ready to take over at center? Patrick could break out also, or he couldn't. What do you believe and what is the smart thing to do. Believe in the young players or hedge your bets. Hayes could, and I emphasize could become a 7M role player. I know you won't but some will reply the cap is going to go up and his cap hit won't be so big relative to that in a few years. It doesn't wash if the latter is what happens. How much does he move the bar?
- MJL

I think he can move the bar a lot.

By not overplaying G and Couts, and improving the PK and slotting Patrick to 3C, that should add up to tangible wins.

They match up much better against teams with the center depth.

He’s a valuable piece for them, even not being a #1 C.

Lack of more then one or two scoring lines has really hurt them. They should have 3 this year and for the short term future.

Hextall made 3 fatal mistakes in his tenure as Flyers GM imo.

1. Hiring of Hakstol/refusal to fire him
2. Not supplementing good drafting through trade/free agency
3. Bringing back the goaltending duo of Elliott/Neuvirth. I honestly have zero clue how he thought that would work. Mind boggling.
- PLindbergh31

I agree with 2.5 of those items.. =)

I don't see the hiring of Hakstol as a bad thing..He went outside of the normal cast of characters during which time the Flyers actually made a playoff appearance. i think where he screwed up with Hak was holding on when his approach clearly wasnt working.

Hayes is a good player who is going to help make them better. The issue is looking at the future which is certainly not any guarantee, what happens when Frost comes on board, which many believe is not far away. Sure he can start on the wing but in 2 years or so will he be ready to take over at center? Patrick could break out also, or he couldn't. What do you believe and what is the smart thing to do. Believe in the young players or hedge your bets. Hayes could, and I emphasize could become a 7M role player. I know you won't but some will reply the cap is going to go up and his cap hit won't be so big relative to that in a few years. It doesn't wash if the latter is what happens. How much does he move the bar?
- MJL

Could they move on from Voracek to create space? Could Voracek's play decline?

Could they move van Reimsdyk? Could his play decline and he become a 7 million dollar role player?


There are if's everywhere.

Everyone talks about hayes' decline but we just assume everything will be fine with our other high priced guys?


Next year could be a year you move a big salary to reshape some of your top 9 if the teams fails to live up to expectations.

I agree with 2.5 of those items.. =)

I don't see the hiring of Hakstol as a bad thing..He went outside of the normal cast of characters during which time the Flyers actually made a playoff appearance. i think where he screwed up with Hak was holding on when his approach clearly wasnt working.
- opeth_pa

Fair enough.