Larsson: -8

Girgensons: -11

They were not AWFUL defensively. But they were NOT good.

I mean seriously, +/- is a wonky stat, but for this, I would argue 100% that you have to be in the + to be even considered good defensively.

It's what drove me nuts about the Vanek haters. Vanek was underrated defensively, and that can be attributed to Lindy but either way, he was like a Marion Hossa-lite.
- BeadyEyedDouche

Like last year, I couldn’t care less if they ever played for us again, but Larsson especially isn’t a bad hockey player. He’s a legit sound defensively 4th line center who doesnt cost anything

He isn’t top 10 on the Sabres list of problems

Larsson and Girgs had 85% Dzone starts and consistantly flipped the ice. At which time one of the top lines would come on. They were 2nd and 3rd on the team in hits and were 2 out of 4 players on the team that had more takeaways than giveaways. Larsson also had the 2nd best FO% out of the players who took 500+ faceoffs (mostly Dzone too which is important.) They were on the ice for 35 and 36 EV goals against respectively. The team gave up 227 EV goals.
I think that they did their job very well, but should not be moved up the line up and be expected to produce. They are defensive forwards.

Like last year, I couldn’t care less if they ever played for us again, but Larsson especially isn’t a bad hockey player. He’s a legit sound defensively 4th line center who doesnt cost anything

He isn’t top 10 on the Sabres list of problems
- sbroads24

People might even actually like them if the team had a true, quality top 9.

Larsson and Girgs had 85% Dzone starts and consistantly flipped the ice. At which time one of the top lines would come on. They were 2nd and 3rd on the team in hits and were 2 out of 4 players on the team that had more takeaways than giveaways. Larsson also had the 2nd best FO% out of the players who took 500+ faceoffs (mostly Dzone too which is important.) They were on the ice for 35 and 36 EV goals against respectively. The team gave up 227 EV goals.
I think that they did their job very well, but should not be moved up the line up and be expected to produce. They are defensive forwards.
- adambuffalo

This.

Larsson and Girgs had 85% Dzone starts and consistantly flipped the ice. At which time one of the top lines would come on. They were 2nd and 3rd on the team in hits and were 2 out of 4 players on the team that had more takeaways than giveaways. Larsson also had the 2nd best FO% out of the players who took 500+ faceoffs (mostly Dzone too which is important.) They were on the ice for 35 and 36 EV goals against respectively. The team gave up 227 EV goals.
I think that they did their job very well, but should not be moved up the line up and be expected to produce. They are defensive forwards.
- adambuffalo

That's a lot of words to say that his f/o % was 50.6

Larsson: -8

Girgensons: -11

They were not AWFUL defensively. But they were NOT good.

I mean seriously, +/- is a wonky stat, but for this, I would argue 100% that you have to be in the + to be even considered good defensively.

- BeadyEyedDouche

Malkin -25
Kopitar -20
Getzlaf -19

With @DarrenDreger reporting that both Kerfoot (4x$3.5M) & Ceci (1x$4.5M) signed, we now show the #Leafs with $3,765,301 projected c/space, with a roster of 23 (13F/8D/2G)

Nathan Horton's contract can also be placed on LTIR & used to exceed the ceiling.

https://t.co/BPt2vFET34 https://t.co/Kt49gTBK6I

Even with Horton on LTIR that only leaves them $9m for Marner. Also, Reilly is the only dman signed past this season.

With @DarrenDreger reporting that both Kerfoot (4x$3.5M) & Ceci (1x$4.5M) signed, we now show the #Leafs with $3,765,301 projected c/space, with a roster of 23 (13F/8D/2G)

Nathan Horton's contract can also be placed on LTIR & used to exceed the ceiling.

https://t.co/BPt2vFET34 https://t.co/Kt49gTBK6I
- adambuffalo

Matthews for OEL ($3m retained) and 2 1sts

Matthews for OEL ($3m retained) and 2 1sts
- jcragcrumple

Arizona is already at the cap limit. Toronto would have to retain.

With @DarrenDreger reporting that both Kerfoot (4x$3.5M) & Ceci (1x$4.5M) signed, we now show the #Leafs with $3,765,301 projected c/space, with a roster of 23 (13F/8D/2G)

Nathan Horton's contract can also be placed on LTIR & used to exceed the ceiling.

https://t.co/BPt2vFET34 https://t.co/Kt49gTBK6I

Even with Horton on LTIR that only leaves them $9m for Marner. Also, Reilly is the only dman signed past this season.
- adambuffalo

Nylander must be a goner.

That means the only regular forward who was good at defense last season was Jeff skinner coming in at 0 for plus minus.
- SabresFaninIndiana

Skinner was back of defense a bunch last year, if you didn't see it, I can't help you.

Larsson and Girgs had 85% Dzone starts and consistantly flipped the ice. At which time one of the top lines would come on. They were 2nd and 3rd on the team in hits and were 2 out of 4 players on the team that had more takeaways than giveaways. Larsson also had the 2nd best FO% out of the players who took 500+ faceoffs (mostly Dzone too which is important.) They were on the ice for 35 and 36 EV goals against respectively. The team gave up 227 EV goals.
I think that they did their job very well, but should not be moved up the line up and be expected to produce. They are defensive forwards.
- adambuffalo

I think those two are so associated with the losing here that they take a lot of unwarranted blame for certain things.

Skinner was back of defense a bunch last year, if you didn't see it, I can't help you.
- BeadyEyedDouche

If you can’t see my point in what I was saying, I can’t help you

Nylander must be a goner.
- Swedish_Jesus

Right.

They will find a way to keep their best players and backfill from there.

Like last year, I couldn’t care less if they ever played for us again, but Larsson especially isn’t a bad hockey player. He’s a legit sound defensively 4th line center who doesnt cost anything

He isn’t top 10 on the Sabres list of problems
- sbroads24

Larsson was good in his role last year, but he is NOT a good hockey player. Period. There's nothing above mediocre about him. He does not excel at anything.

Larsson and Girgs had 85% Dzone starts and consistantly flipped the ice. At which time one of the top lines would come on. They were 2nd and 3rd on the team in hits and were 2 out of 4 players on the team that had more takeaways than giveaways. Larsson also had the 2nd best FO% out of the players who took 500+ faceoffs (mostly Dzone too which is important.) They were on the ice for 35 and 36 EV goals against respectively. The team gave up 227 EV goals.
I think that they did their job very well, but should not be moved up the line up and be expected to produce. They are defensive forwards.
- adambuffalo

They are NOT defensive forwards, FFS.

They are 4th line role players. That's it.

Even if a few kids are gonna make the roster

Several scrubs need to go

Even if a few kids are gonna make the roster

Several scrubs need to go
- homiedclown

Good luck

Even if a few kids are gonna make the roster

Several scrubs need to go
- homiedclown

You mean we aren’t going to carry 12 defensemen?

Even if a few kids are gonna make the roster

Several scrubs need to go
- homiedclown

If, IF, they fix the middle six, and no forwards are traded:

Skins-Eichs-Samson
VO-? -?
Vesey-Fatboy-Sheary
? - ERod-?

That leaves:

Lockport
Girgs
Tage
CJ
Okposo
Pod racer
Wilson


Take your pick.

If, IF, they fix the middle six, and no forwards are traded:

Skins-Eichs-Samson
VO-? -?
Vesey-Fatboy-Sheary
? - ERod-?

That leaves:

Lockport
Girgs
Tage
CJ
Okposo
Pod racer
Wilson


Take your pick.
- Powerslave

They really need to get an entire new 2nd line.

LAST YEAR...
i told ppl not to assume he’d be a stud right away
Most on here were thinking 50pts was the minimum
And many thought he’d be Barzal-like

BUT NOW...
the overreaction has swung in the other direction & ppl are too low on him

What do i want for 2C this year...
*i don’t have a set position
-if we can acquire a guy like Staal for CHEAP, who is signed for 2yrs or less at a reasonable Cap hit, them I’m cool with that
-if we can acquire a Brayden Point (or similar guy who is a really good 2WAY PLAYER), then I’d like that a lot... depending on what we’d have to give up of course. Other guys mentioned like Cirelli or W.Karlsson would’ve worked too. Not sure who is/isn’t available

-
***if neither of those options present themselves...
I’m ok with our Top3 centers being Jack, Casey & E Rod
No, that’s obviously not ideal
But Mitts is here and will be better
and Cozens isn’t far behind
and Asplund looked really good towards the end of last season
Our center depth for the future is REALLY GOOD
REALLY, REALLY GOOD

The last thing we needed to do was overpay for Duchene, or Hayes, etc
And even worse would be to make a move out of desperation to acquire someone like Turris for long term with a big Cap Hit, who is declining


That should sum up my feelings pretty well for ya,
for what it’s worth
- jdfitz77

Thanks.
The 1st & 3rd points I agree with.
The 2nd of acquiring an elite player like Point , while technically an option I think the probability at this stage is very, very low. It does however then create flexibility with Mitts or Cozens to shift to Wing or get traded. I just don't see this happening though.

I remain convinced going after a short-term option is becomming more realistic.

Risto pulled over for speeding in Finland.

Someone told him his plane ticket out of Buffalo was ready.

They really need to get an entire new 2nd line.
- SabresFaninIndiana

I think VO can hang there, or place him w Jack.

If, IF, they fix the middle six, and no forwards are traded:

Skins-Eichs-Samson
VO-? -?
Vesey-Fatboy-Sheary
? - ERod-?

That leaves:

Lockport
Girgs
Tage
CJ
Okposo
Pod racer
Wilson


Take your pick.
- Powerslave

top 5 draft pick here we come.... AGAIN