I wonder when they decided to trade Jokiharju. You would have to think someone would’ve offered a pick or possibly a better option then Nylander he may turn out ok but have to wonder when they said ok let’s trade him
- Abadseed

Scott Powers:

A source told me multiple times in recent weeks the Blackhawks were shopping Jokiharju. Someone else explained that it wasn’t necessarily shopping, but the Blackhawks were receiving interest and were open to listening. A source said Tuesday the Blackhawks and Buffalo Sabres had actually been talking for some time about this trade.

Just like with all the draft talking heads, who told you what they "learned" about Bowen Byram and Alex Turcotte and you got your feeling hurt when it was someone completely different in Kirby Dach...and the frankers cannot let it go --- saying "this pick will be what Bowman and Kelley are judged on...."

Good!

Let that be. But I know ultimately that they ONLY way Powers and Lazarus keep your jobs as "hockey explainers" is if we PAY for their terrific Athletic service, and that means continual examples of them trying to help them learn as they go, so we are happy and feel they were expert in their analysis...it is almost as if the articles and opinions MUST continue to tell us, the various stats to make the opinions so, they all are to help us and THEM form opinions on LEVELS they really know little abiout.

Oh, so you talked to some one in another reorganization and they said ????

I refuse to put much value of Lazarus or Powers opinion on things over the folks that run the organizations and many of you here.

Clearly both players wanted out, and felt like they deserved to bemused to THEIR STRENGTHS.

Jokiharju WAS timid and regressed - you can tell me all you want about you think he is a "top 4 guy" and I will tell you, he is a possible long term solution for a team in that capacity (and being #4 , well that is a whole lot players filling in there... and tell me about his IQ...(I grade IQ all year at the junior level) but whether some here want to belic=ve it he "kittied" under pressure, and in some of those last games he was gone for almost the entire rest of the minutes after gets roughed up.
That doesn't mean to say he actually cannot help a team, but when an NHL team trades a guy, they see him as less likely to be along term answer in their starting four in their all round play.

So your feelings got hurt tonight acquiring Alex Nylander, and when they took Dach, because the media had no idea AND STILL DOESN'T in regard to backstories and the organizational reasoning.
Clearly Jason Botterill (and you know how someone said no one has any insiders? - I gonna get one questioned asked to him by an old teammate hopefully soon on Nylander-Jokihaju...)is still learning his job, and if this deal endears him to the Sabres fans, great. But O'Reilly left because there was lots wrong, right?

I will say one thing:
The Blackhawks didn't have guy like Nylander in their system, a guy who if he gets his ass together, makes the PP better and just like the other offensive guys around the league, will be forgiven for defensive lapses if he is dominant with real NHL players giving him that opportunity.

They didn't have a guy like Dach in their system...a large beast who gets it defensively and once he progresses physically starts to possibly impose his will offensively...the pieces are there, more in place than any other guy in the at draft to help them all over and eventually as guy who is a big problem each shift offensively.

If you want to be sad because you really like Jokiharju and the hype train that got attached so quickly, make sure you do not do the same to Dach...or Nylander, if Alex can in, some us how he navigates the attack zone when he is not injured as he was with various maladies for three rushed years in minor pro.

If you move him to minor pro AHL, you don't place him in a position to NOT BE what he is ...a goal scorer.

Bowman already placed the vocal carrot out there for him to come to camp to be a top six guy, but it wasn't / isn't gonna be given to him, just like Jokiharju wasn't gonna her handed a sport as situational offense man, and I bet he won't in Buffalo either except they really aren'ta team in a position where there leaders haver stepped up...and if Nylander got his feelings hurt not being on "captain" Jack Eichel's wing, he will be disappointed if he expects it handed to him here or anywhere.

But clearly the hawks possibly added something theydont have in the system, fot=r something they had an abundance of....
- wiz1901

Thanks Wiz, really appreciate your insight and candor. With all the hand wringing around here tonight you’d have thought it was 2013 and Bowman just traded Keith for some no name prospect. Like I said earlier, we should all take a deep breath and I’ll add chill for a bit.

Night all!

Just like with all the draft talking heads, who told you what they "learned" about Bowen Byram and Alex Turcotte and you got your feeling hurt when it was someone completely different in Kirby Dach...and the frankers cannot let it go --- saying "this pick will be what Bowman and Kelley are judged on...."

Good!

Let that be. But I know ultimately that they ONLY way Powers and Lazarus keep your jobs as "hockey explainers" is if we PAY for their terrific Athletic service, and that means continual examples of them trying to help them learn as they go, so we are happy and feel they were expert in their analysis...it is almost as if the articles and opinions MUST continue to tell us, the various stats to make the opinions so, they all are to help us and THEM form opinions on LEVELS they really know little abiout.

Oh, so you talked to some one in another reorganization and they said ????

I refuse to put much value of Lazarus or Powers opinion on things over the folks that run the organizations and many of you here.

Clearly both players wanted out, and felt like they deserved to bemused to THEIR STRENGTHS.

Jokiharju WAS timid and regressed - you can tell me all you want about you think he is a "top 4 guy" and I will tell you, he is a possible long term solution for a team in that capacity (and being #4 , well that is a whole lot players filling in there... and tell me about his IQ...(I grade IQ all year at the junior level) but whether some here want to belic=ve it he "kittied" under pressure, and in some of those last games he was gone for almost the entire rest of the minutes after gets roughed up.
That doesn't mean to say he actually cannot help a team, but when an NHL team trades a guy, they see him as less likely to be along term answer in their starting four in their all round play.

So your feelings got hurt tonight acquiring Alex Nylander, and when they took Dach, because the media had no idea AND STILL DOESN'T in regard to backstories and the organizational reasoning.
Clearly Jason Botterill (and you know how someone said no one has any insiders? - I gonna get one questioned asked to him by an old teammate hopefully soon on Nylander-Jokihaju...)is still learning his job, and if this deal endears him to the Sabres fans, great. But O'Reilly left because there was lots wrong, right?

I will say one thing:
The Blackhawks didn't have guy like Nylander in their system, a guy who if he gets his ass together, makes the PP better and just like the other offensive guys around the league, will be forgiven for defensive lapses if he is dominant with real NHL players giving him that opportunity.

They didn't have a guy like Dach in their system...a large beast who gets it defensively and once he progresses physically starts to possibly impose his will offensively...the pieces are there, more in place than any other guy in the at draft to help them all over and eventually as guy who is a big problem each shift offensively.

If you want to be sad because you really like Jokiharju and the hype train that got attached so quickly, make sure you do not do the same to Dach...or Nylander, if Alex can in, some us how he navigates the attack zone when he is not injured as he was with various maladies for three rushed years in minor pro.

If you move him to minor pro AHL, you don't place him in a position to NOT BE what he is ...a goal scorer.

Bowman already placed the vocal carrot out there for him to come to camp to be a top six guy, but it wasn't / isn't gonna be given to him, just like Jokiharju wasn't gonna her handed a sport as situational offense man, and I bet he won't in Buffalo either except they really aren'ta team in a position where there leaders haver stepped up...and if Nylander got his feelings hurt not being on "captain" Jack Eichel's wing, he will be disappointed if he expects it handed to him here or anywhere.

But clearly the hawks possibly added something theydont have in the system, fot=r something they had an abundance of....
- wiz1901

Thanks for the insight Bill, I am sure both teams had their reasons for making the trade, here’s hoping both of these young guys go on and get it right in their new situations and have productive NHL careers. Hopefully both teams win here.

I actually think Mitchell is better defensively but is lacking in some physical development at this point. I openly admit I am really high on Mitchell, tho. So, there is that.

Some of the moves this summer is making me wonder if Mitchell doesn't have some doubts about signing with the Hawks.
- Elbows15

I would think if Mitchell was having doubts, they wouldn't have traded Jokiharju because they'd be down to just one RD prospect left without Mitchell.

I will never forget, or forgive him for the Danault trade
- vabeachbear

Bingo...that Danault trade was hot garbage...complete waste.

I am perplexed by the necessity and timing of this trade. If you didn't see him on the roster as a regular this year why not let him play more in Rck...why move him now for a guy like Nylander that sabres might have let go for less.
- bogiedoc

Exactly this. What was the rush? If Joker wasn't going to play in the NHL this year, why force the trade? It's not like Nylander has some instant opening to an NHL top 6-9 spot, which he'd need given his skill set. And it's not like the Hawks are short on talent in their top 6 that they'd need a player like this so badly. By my count you have those 8 of those spots already occupied by Toews, Kane, Saad, DeBrincat, Strome, Shaw, Anisimov/Perlini(pending), and most likely Kubalik. It's not like he is going to just be handed a lineup spot.

And here's the kicker...just because Jokiharju would have spent a full season in Rockford would not have diminished his "shine" as a prospect or lowered his value around the league. Team's weren't going to sour on a guy that's 20 years old because he spent 1 full season in the AHL.

So if he was pissed he was sent down, or not given ice time, too bad. You're a 20 year old on an ELC with basically zero negotiating rights. You hold him until you see what you have for sure and then you deal from a position of strength in season or next season when you see what shakes out with our current defensive lineup. But trading prospects for prospects at a time like this in the summer is just bad strategy, there is literally no upside to doing it now.

Yeah, the Strome comp is a little weak to me, honestly. I mean, anything is possible but Strome was better at every level than Nylander. Like Strome had 50+ more points in the OHL his draft season than Nylander did and then Strome was over a PPG in the AHL while Nylander has been at best a .6 something.

I think Nylander can be much better offensively than his AHL numbers show, he's has good vision and his hands are top-notch, but there's a lot of consistency issues with his play, his pace is weirdly slow for being a good skater, and he's been a perimeter type of player at every level so far.

It was interesting that someone on here said the Hawks were looking to get bigger with this trade but they're pretty much the exact same size, though Jokiharju is probably stronger and is def more physical than Nylander.
- L_B_R

While not the same levels of talent, this trade reminds me of the Jonathan Drouin foe Sergachev deal. Neither one has been great for their new teams. Itwill take time with Nylander but hes only 21. And Joki will get a spot on Buffalo's D and do fairly well on a terrible team.

I still think the Hawks see Chad Krys as an NHL caliber Dmen too.

He was their 2nd round pick in 2016.
- bhawks2241

Yes and I remember reading that Carlsson is looking real good too

Exactly this. What was the rush? If Joker wasn't going to play in the NHL this year, why force the trade? It's not like Nylander has some instant opening to an NHL top 6-9 spot, which he'd need given his skill set. And it's not like the Hawks are short on talent in their top 6 that they'd need a player like this so badly. By my count you have those 8 of those spots already occupied by Toews, Kane, Saad, DeBrincat, Strome, Shaw, Anisimov/Perlini(pending), and most likely Kubalik. It's not like he is going to just be handed a lineup spot.

And here's the kicker...just because Jokiharju would have spent a full season in Rockford would not have diminished his "shine" as a prospect or lowered his value around the league. Team's weren't going to sour on a guy that's 20 years old because he spent 1 full season in the AHL.

So if he was pissed he was sent down, or not given ice time, too bad. You're a 20 year old on an ELC with basically zero negotiating rights. You hold him until you see what you have for sure and then you deal from a position of strength in season or next season when you see what shakes out with our current defensive lineup. But trading prospects for prospects at a time like this in the summer is just bad strategy, there is literally no upside to doing it now.
- Budi1782

Seems like a ridiculously bad trade. So ridiculous that there must be something to it that we don't see. Unless it really is a matter of Hawks thinking highly of Nylander and not having room for Joki. That's what Stan said at least

While not the same levels of talent, this trade reminds me of the Jonathan Drouin foe Sergachev deal. Neither one has been great for their new teams. Itwill take time with Nylander but hes only 21. And Joki will get a spot on Buffalo's D and do fairly well on a terrible team.
- RickJ

I don't really understand what you mean about them not being good for their new teams because they have? Like Drouin just hit over 50 points at 22 (on a mediocre offense team) and his underlying passing/shot contribution metrics suggest he'll get even better while Sergachev was excellent in a #5 role at only 19/20 with the likelihood that he'll be top 4 next season when he's 21 (only reason he wasn't already is due to how stacked TBL's defense is).

Just like with all the draft talking heads, who told you what they "learned" about Bowen Byram and Alex Turcotte and you got your feeling hurt when it was someone completely different in Kirby Dach...and the frankers cannot let it go --- saying "this pick will be what Bowman and Kelley are judged on...."

Good!

Let that be. But I know ultimately that they ONLY way Powers and Lazarus keep your jobs as "hockey explainers" is if we PAY for their terrific Athletic service, and that means continual examples of them trying to help them learn as they go, so we are happy and feel they were expert in their analysis...it is almost as if the articles and opinions MUST continue to tell us, the various stats to make the opinions so, they all are to help us and THEM form opinions on LEVELS they really know little abiout.

Oh, so you talked to some one in another reorganization and they said ????

I refuse to put much value of Lazarus or Powers opinion on things over the folks that run the organizations and many of you here.

Clearly both players wanted out, and felt like they deserved to bemused to THEIR STRENGTHS.

Jokiharju WAS timid and regressed - you can tell me all you want about you think he is a "top 4 guy" and I will tell you, he is a possible long term solution for a team in that capacity (and being #4 , well that is a whole lot players filling in there... and tell me about his IQ...(I grade IQ all year at the junior level) but whether some here want to belic=ve it he "kittied" under pressure, and in some of those last games he was gone for almost the entire rest of the minutes after gets roughed up.
That doesn't mean to say he actually cannot help a team, but when an NHL team trades a guy, they see him as less likely to be along term answer in their starting four in their all round play.

So your feelings got hurt tonight acquiring Alex Nylander, and when they took Dach, because the media had no idea AND STILL DOESN'T in regard to backstories and the organizational reasoning.
Clearly Jason Botterill (and you know how someone said no one has any insiders? - I gonna get one questioned asked to him by an old teammate hopefully soon on Nylander-Jokihaju...)is still learning his job, and if this deal endears him to the Sabres fans, great. But O'Reilly left because there was lots wrong, right?

I will say one thing:
The Blackhawks didn't have guy like Nylander in their system, a guy who if he gets his ass together, makes the PP better and just like the other offensive guys around the league, will be forgiven for defensive lapses if he is dominant with real NHL players giving him that opportunity.

They didn't have a guy like Dach in their system...a large beast who gets it defensively and once he progresses physically starts to possibly impose his will offensively...the pieces are there, more in place than any other guy in the at draft to help them all over and eventually as guy who is a big problem each shift offensively.

If you want to be sad because you really like Jokiharju and the hype train that got attached so quickly, make sure you do not do the same to Dach...or Nylander, if Alex can in, some us how he navigates the attack zone when he is not injured as he was with various maladies for three rushed years in minor pro.

If you move him to minor pro AHL, you don't place him in a position to NOT BE what he is ...a goal scorer.

Bowman already placed the vocal carrot out there for him to come to camp to be a top six guy, but it wasn't / isn't gonna be given to him, just like Jokiharju wasn't gonna her handed a sport as situational offense man, and I bet he won't in Buffalo either except they really aren'ta team in a position where there leaders haver stepped up...and if Nylander got his feelings hurt not being on "captain" Jack Eichel's wing, he will be disappointed if he expects it handed to him here or anywhere.

But clearly the hawks possibly added something theydont have in the system, fot=r something they had an abundance of....
- wiz1901

Well said sir, now if the pundits would read and digest this, maybe, just maybe, we can get back to normal.

I’m trying my best not to react too harshly to any one individual transaction this offseason, and to wait and see what the sum total of all moves made looks like before forming a true opinion, but this one is a head scratcher for sure.

I’m baffled. Not so much that they made a trade that none of us really saw coming, but more so for the return that they got.

I feel like there’s another shoe to drop on this one. Hopefully Stan’s working on a trade centered on Nylander for Gusev or something like that.
- Ogilthorpe2

Doubt that the goose is traded to a western team...

While not the same levels of talent, this trade reminds me of the Jonathan Drouin foe Sergachev deal. Neither one has been great for their new teams. Itwill take time with Nylander but hes only 21. And Joki will get a spot on Buffalo's D and do fairly well on a terrible team.
- RickJ

That's a good comparison Rick. Last year's Pens-Ducks trade of Sprong for Pettersson came to mind for me.

Colliton cannot be defined as unsuccessful. He was not a bad coach. He did not have a good team to coach. You seemingly cannot make this correlation for a while on this board
- jhawk59

They were horrid to watch and without Kane going off and the power play being unstoppable they were worse under JC with a stronger line up.

The hawks pro scouting has been atrocious and i fail to see how trading one of your better defenders who is a NHL player now for a guy who hasn't put it together is a little preposterous.

But hey #freemorin

Did Bowman owe Botterill a favor? Does Botterill have naked pictures of bowman? I can’t see how this trade works out well t all for the Hawks. Nylander has talent but lacks interest and brains.

Schmaltz got that contract after he was injured, not before.
- L_B_R

So you think that would have lessened the beating from this site

So you think that would have lessened the beating from this site
- vabeachbear

That was my thought. Would have only made the shouts from the villagers louder and more frequent.

I don't follow Twitter all that closely, but had to check out whatever that bottle cap challenge was ( and it was basically like ..planking ... stupid) ... Nylander's account looks like he has had a serious man crush on Kane for quite awhile ...

What if he and his agent didnt want to marinate anymore and explored trade options?
- PatShart

Stan can't say no to an agent.....

So, why was he traded?
- mohel

You tell me, you got the unicorn, not I.

It's been stated many times in different ways on here, but for some reason this organization no longer values grooming defensemen to actually play in Chicago. They are all trade chips now. We have seen it over and over.

There is no guarantee that Beaudin, Boqvist, Mitchell, or any of the other prospects are going to work out. They had one that looked pretty good on the ice. As soon as one of those top 6 go down for a few games or if de Haan misses the first few weeks, we are going to be missing Joki.

Here's to hoping that playing on a line with a future HOF will bring out the Nylander family scoring ability in Alex. Because if he is just going to be forward depth in Rockford this will be a worse move than signing Manning.

they need to clean house with the scouting dept. no 1st round pick from 2010-2017 has panned out. only solid pick has been dcat

I am perplexed by the necessity and timing of this trade. If you didn't see him on the roster as a regular this year why not let him play more in Rck...why move him now for a guy like Nylander that sabres might have let go for less.

There has to be the "rest of the story" that only the organ-i-zation knows at the moment.
- bogiedoc

Agreed. Did Stan really need to make this trade now? He could have waited.

Like Lazarus said in the Athletic article, it seems that they dubbed Jokiharju to have a lower ceiling than the other D prospects in the system. Dealing from an organizational “surplus” of young Dmen for an area of need...top 6 projected forward prospects.

If he can get open and bury 1 timers from Kane it will be a slam dunk... but whether he can has yet to be seen.
- EnzoD

If Joki has a lower ceiling great, but I still dont see a better one
on the roster yet, and we still don't know what daHaan or Matta
will bring

This team doesn't have a number one or two Dman on it, not sure
if it has a 3

It's been stated many times in different ways on here, but for some reason this organization no longer values grooming defensemen to actually play in Chicago. They are all trade chips now. We have seen it over and over.

There is no guarantee that Beaudin, Boqvist, Mitchell, or any of the other prospects are going to work out. They had one that looked pretty good on the ice. As soon as one of those top 6 go down for a few games or if de Haan misses the first few weeks, we are going to be missing Joki.

Here's to hoping that playing on a line with a future HOF will bring out the Nylander family scoring ability in Alex. Because if he is just going to be forward depth in Rockford this will be a worse move than signing Manning.
- biskit67

LOL .... The fact is Joki and Nylander are in exactly the same boat. Two first round picks who have failed to establish themselves to their first teams. You criticize Bowman for the trade in part because Nylander MIGHT become a minor leaguer while in a previous point you say Joki is just a fill in for an injury. If you approach every move Bowman makes as a bad one then guess what? Every move he makes is dumb. Why not wait and see what happens to two former first round picks and see how it all plays out?

As for "this organization no longer values grooming defensemen to actually play in Chicago." who exactly are you referring to? Seems to me they are grooming Boqvist and being patient with Mitchell, Krys and Beaudin to allow them to develop.

Let's see what happens. Maybe you're right and this is a bad trade. On the other hand maybe it was a steal for Chicago. We won't know for a couple of years.