Sorry, but that's not cap hell. Leafs have 0 bad contracts. Benning obtained a few just this summer.
- RogerRoeper

I mean one could argue Ceci. But the way defensemen are overpaid these days I'm not even sure you could say he's a bad contract. And it's only for a year.

Sorry, but that's not cap hell. Leafs have 0 bad contracts. Benning obtained a few just this summer.
- RogerRoeper

Pretty much this

It may not be the worst or even bottom few. Especially considering that Connor and Leon alone give them a head start on virtually every team.

But the real point is that after all those picks, and while having the best player in the world, it’s embarrassing and a joke that they’re even somewhere in the conversation.

I don’t like to wish Ill on people. But wow chiarelli was awful. Fuk him. I will never ever listen to appeal to authority bs again after witnessing the debacle he had in edm. You could have actively wanted to hurt the oilers and not done a much worse job
- HB77

This.

- K-man25

Name them.

When guys like Nylander and Matthews are named and you compare them to the horrific contracts on other teams you start to see my point.

Benning is overplaying for bottom 6 guys. That's the worst.

I mean one could argue Ceci. But the way defensemen are overpaid these days I'm not even sure you could say he's a bad contract. And it's only for a year.
- gergeswillems

Yeah, I never really include guys on 1 year on any team, just because it's so short

This year we've seen so many, Tanev, Hayes, ETC.

Late 20's 1 time 50 point guys now get 6-7+ per.

While trading away first round picks to get rid of contracts is never a good thing, I could argue that the Leafs could afford to do this because they stockpiled so many draft picks during their rebuild years.

Dubas has been cleaning up Lou's mess and Marleau's last year was certainly part of that. I can't sit here and say the Leafs are better or worse or the same as they were last season.

But I do think that most fans would believe that Dubas has done a better job reshaping the Leafs than most believed he would going into this summer. It's certainly not the doom and gloom many predicted.

I love their top 2 lines. The third and fourth lines are meh. I still think Nylander should be traded for a good young top 4 defenseman. Who that is? I don't know. To me, Nylander is a luxury and not a necessity.

I believe the Leafs are a top 4 defenseman from winning the Cup. If they can add some quality rentals at the trade deadline. Guys who can compliment the skill guys with some toughness, they have as good of a chance to win it all as any other team.

But when you have the young studs the Leafs have it's always easier to add the depth guys to fill out the third and fourth lines.
- gergeswillems

Whatever, it was predicted cap hell when Tavares (and Marleau) were signed.

Do they have a great core? Absolutely. Oddly enough the guy I see mentioned the least is Rielly and he's arguably their most important player. I guess Burkie was right.

I think the issues with the Leafs is that they are top heavy, and they've shortened their window a bit.

I'm not a Leaf fan so I hope they trade Nylander as I figure that's a relative bargain of a contract.

Dubas has cleaned things up for 1 season, but all of that was avoidable without signing Tavares. There's still plenty of work to do moving forward however IMO.

Sorry, but that's not cap hell. Leafs have 0 bad contracts. Benning obtained a few just this summer.
- RogerRoeper

I think the Myers deal is a year too long, and maybe Ferland. I don't see what other bad contract he's given out. Even Benn was surprisingly low term.

I think when Rielly signs as a UFA in Vancouver i'll send you a pm.

Whatever, it was predicted cap hell when Tavares (and Marleau) were signed.

Do they have a great core? Absolutely. Oddly enough the guy I see mentioned the least is Rielly and he's arguably their most important player. I guess Burkie was right.

I think the issues with the Leafs is that they are top heavy, and they've shortened their window a bit.

I'm not a Leaf fan so I hope they trade Nylander as I figure that's a relative bargain of a contract.

Dubas has cleaned things up for 1 season, but all of that was avoidable without signing Tavares. There's still plenty of work to do moving forward however IMO.
- golfingsince

It's odd you're trying top spin Tavares as a terrible signing. LOL. Best signing by any GM in years by far.
Why do you think it's better to sign a few average players for more $? The Leafs issues was Zaitsev and Marleau, not Tavares. Lou gave 2 supporting guys too much term and $, but you're blaming it on Dubas for getting a #1 franchise C in his prime.

It's comical for the Leafs to be in "Cap Hell", but rebuilding teams like the Rangers and Canucks already having no cap is fine.

Look around the league. Leafs are in good shape.

I think the Myers deal is a year too long, and maybe Ferland. I don't see what other bad contract he's given out. Even Benn was surprisingly low term.

I think when Rielly signs as a UFA in Vancouver i'll send you a pm.
- golfingsince

Myers is just plain terrible. His analystics are ugly, At best he's a#4 D.

JT Miller's trade was dumb. He makes too much $.

Whatever, it was predicted cap hell when Tavares (and Marleau) were signed.

Do they have a great core? Absolutely. Oddly enough the guy I see mentioned the least is Rielly and he's arguably their most important player. I guess Burkie was right.

I think the issues with the Leafs is that they are top heavy, and they've shortened their window a bit.

I'm not a Leaf fan so I hope they trade Nylander as I figure that's a relative bargain of a contract.

Dubas has cleaned things up for 1 season, but all of that was avoidable without signing Tavares. There's still plenty of work to do moving forward however IMO.
- golfingsince

Last season was really the Leafs "All In" season IMO - They still had most of their depth (minus JVR/Bozak) from the previous season but added Tavares. Gardiner was still there and Matthews/Marner on their ELC's. They had a 30+ goal scorer in Kadri in a shutdown role on the 3rd line

when the opportunity came for Dubas to get Tavares for FREE, he should have decided which of his 3 (Matthews/Marner/Nylander) he was going to move and worked toward extracting maximum value

Right now they are SUPER top heavy and will be relying on consistent production from Kapanen and Johnsson in BIG ways, plus a Nylander bounce back and that's just for THIS season

Beyond this year, when Barrie leaves they're going to need Liljegren and Sandin to step in, be legit and provide meaningful minutes right out of the gate, plus they will need the cap to go up just to keep the rest of what they got over the next few years (Muzzin, Anderson, Hyman, etc)

And they got almost no room for injury

The past 2 seasons might just have been the best 2 seasons for a while. Tampa and Boston are still going to be tough outs for the next couple of seasons as well

It's odd you're trying top spin Tavares as a terrible signing. LOL. Best signing by any GM in years by far.
Why do you think it's better to sign a few average players for more $? The Leafs issues was Zaitsev and Marleau, not Tavares. Lou gave 2 supporting guys too much term and $, but you're blaming it on Dubas for getting a #1 franchise C in his prime.

It's comical for the Leafs to be in "Cap Hell", but rebuilding teams like the Rangers and Canucks already having no cap is fine.

Look around the league. Leafs are in good shape.
- RogerRoeper

I have never spun it as terrible signing, just an unnecessary one. You had 3 guys on the roster capable of playing the top 3C positions, even if two of them switched over in a year or so from when Tavares was signed.

You made a rich position even richer at the expense of the rest of your team. Now the team is trading assets to clear space in order to sign one of your own. Granted, you have some very exciting young D prospects but then again your entire D corps aside from Rielly are UFA's next year aren't they?

Personally, I'm interested to see how that Tavares deal looks in a few years.

Last season was really the Leafs "All In" season IMO - They still had most of their depth (minus JVR/Bozak) from the previous season but added Tavares. Gardiner was still there and Matthews/Marner on their ELC's

when the opportunity came for Dubas to get Tavares for FREE, he should have decided which of his 3 (Matthews/Marner/Nylander) he was going to move and worked toward extracting maximum value

Right now they are SUPER top heavy and will be relying on consistent production from Kapanen and Johnsson in BIG ways, plus a Nylander bounce back and that's just for THIS season

Beyond this year, when Barrie leaves they're going to need Liljegren and Sandin to step in, be legit and provide meaningful minutes right out of the gate, plus they will need the cap to go up just to keep the rest of what they got over the next few years (Muzzin, Anderson, Hyman, etc)

And they got almost no room for injury

The past 2 seasons might just have been the best 2 seasons for a while. Tampa and Boston are still going to be tough outs for the next couple of seasons as well
- RoloTahmasee

Why are you saying Barrie is leaving? Leafs have the $ to keep him if they wanted to.

Also, counting on Kapanen and Johnsson is fine. Any other team would be. What wasn't fine was a much worse Marleau taking ice-time from them all year. Johnsson's usage was far too low last season. He needs more.

I have never spun it as terrible signing, just an unnecessary one. You had 3 guys on the roster capable of playing the top 3C positions, even if two of them switched over in a year or so from when Tavares was signed.

You made a rich position even richer at the expense of the rest of your team. Now the team is trading assets to clear space in order to sign one of your own. Granted, you have some very exciting young D prospects but then again your entire D corps aside from Rielly are UFA's next year aren't they?

Personally, I'm interested to see how that Tavares deal looks in a few years.
- golfingsince

Marleau and Zaitsev were the contract issues. They were making only 200K less than Tavares. That's LOu for you, overpaying supporting guys like he's doing on the Island.


Is it a big deal Leafs "Traded assets" like their 3rd line C for a top-pairing D who somehow is making only 2.75 this season and Kerfoot?

Every team in the league moves out assets.

Why are you saying barrie is leaving? Leafs have the $ to kep him if they wanted to.

Also, counting on Kapanen and Johnsson is fine. Any other team would be. What wasn't fine was a much worse Marleau taking ice-time from them all year. Johnsson's usage was far too low last season. He needs more.
- RogerRoeper

Please explain how the Leafs give Barrie 8 million per assuming they sign Marner to 10 million

If you think you can just give him Muzzin and Ceci's money then you do realize you'd have 4 of your top 6 D making 1 million, 2 of them rookies

If you want to keep Muzzin, book another 2 million on it because he will cost at least 6

When teams have all their money tied up in 4 forwards and 2 defenseman, that's what we all call Top Heavy

Marleau and Zaitsev were the contract issues. They were making only 200K less than Tavares. That's LOu for you, overpaying supporting guys like he's doing on the Island.


Is it a big deal Leafs "Traded assets" like their 3rd line C for a top-pairing D who somehow is making only 2.75 this season and Kerfoot?

Every team in the league moves out assets.
- RogerRoeper

That was a good trade, but it's a trade that only benefits this year because $$ to $$ wise Barrie and Kerfoot >>> Kadri

If Barrie walks, OR you pay him retail and that costs you depth elsewhere (Muzzin as an example) you've traded a proven 30 goal scorer under a way below market contract who can also shutdown for a guy you hoping can maybe give you some of that one day

Myers is just plain terrible. His analystics are ugly, At best he's a#4 D.

JT Miller's trade was dumb. He makes too much $.
- RogerRoeper

No, the reason if was dumb is because they gave up a first round pick then had to build the roster accordingly. I'd rather miss the playoffs this year and make it next year as I feel the draft might be deeper.

His $4.5M is easily digestible for 4 years. He's a 26 year old 50 point player, he's at worst a middle six player.

Please explain how the Leafs give Barrie 8 million per assuming they sign Marner to 10 million

If you think you can just give him Muzzin and Ceci's money then you do realize you'd have 4 of your top 6 D making 1 million, 2 of them rookies

If you want to keep Muzzin, book another 2 million on it because he will cost at least 6

When teams have all their money tied up in 4 forwards and 2 defenseman, that's what we all call Top Heavy
- RoloTahmasee

Because they will give Barrie his 8 million staring in the 2020-2021 season when they will have 16-18 million after Marner is signed? Barrie's cap hit of 8 million won't be next season.

And you don't understand the cap. You can get quaklity bottpm 6 forwards for cheap. You should tie your $ up in a 5-7 core team with elite talent. Teams signing guys like Myers and Tanev are morons.

No, the reason if was dumb is because they gave up a first round pick then had to build the roster accordingly. I'd rather miss the playoffs this year and make it next year as I feel the draft might be deeper.

His $4.5M is easily digestible for 4 years. He's a 26 year old 50 point player, he's at worst a middle six player.
- golfingsince

What? Leafs are a lock to be a 100+ point team even if they did not move Marleau.

JT Miller's hit 50 points once.

Whatever, it was predicted cap hell when Tavares (and Marleau) were signed.

Do they have a great core? Absolutely. Oddly enough the guy I see mentioned the least is Rielly and he's arguably their most important player. I guess Burkie was right.

I think the issues with the Leafs is that they are top heavy, and they've shortened their window a bit.

I'm not a Leaf fan so I hope they trade Nylander as I figure that's a relative bargain of a contract.

Dubas has cleaned things up for 1 season, but all of that was avoidable without signing Tavares. There's still plenty of work to do moving forward however IMO.
- golfingsince

That's a fair post. The Leafs are in an interesting place right now. If things go right they could win the Cup. Or if things go bad it could blow up in their face. I guess any contender could say that though.

Sometimes the stars just align. Like the Blues. Get on a roll and carry the momentum. Or be like Tampa and light the regular season on fire only to $hit the bed in the playoffs. You're right. Dubas still has some work to do even after Marner signs. Rielly was a home run pick. He's going to get even better.

Because they will give Barrie his 8 million staring in the 2020-2021 season when they will have 16-18 million after Marner is signed? Barrie's cap hit of 8 million won't be next season.

And you don't understand the cap. You can get quaklity bottpm 6 forwards for cheap. You should tie your $ up in a 5-7 core team with elite talent. Teams signing guys like Myers and Tanev are morons.
- RogerRoeper

Assuming they are capped out this season with Marner signed (Lets say 10 per), who's leaving that will open up 16-18 million for 2020-21 season?

You currently have 55 million committed and only have 9 forwards, 1 Defense and 1 Goalie and that doesn't include Marner

What? Leafs are a lock to be a 100+ point team even if they did not move Marleau.

JT Miller's hit 50 points once.
- RogerRoeper

I know your head works differently but we aren't always talking the Leafs. Also, Miller hit 56 & 58 points the two years prior to last year's 47.... so i'll call him a 50 point player.

Do you think Tampa wanted to part with him? No, some retard offered up a 1st round pick early in the process.

That was a good trade, but it's a trade that only benefits this year because $$ to $$ wise Barrie and Kerfoot >>> Kadri

If Barrie walks, OR you pay him retail and that costs you depth elsewhere (Muzzin as an example) you've traded a proven 30 goal scorer under a way below market contract who can also shutdown for a guy you hoping can maybe give you some of that one day
- RoloTahmasee

Eh, Kadri is 29 and shown signs of slowing last season. Kerfoot scored almost as much as Kadri last season with worse usage and is almost 5 years younger and 1 million per cheaper.

Assuming they are capped out this season with Marner signed (Lets say 10 per), who's leaving that will open up 16-18 million for 2020-21 season?
- RoloTahmasee

I don't see the Leafs keeping Muzzin. Both Liljegren and Sandin should both be ready to make the jump in 2020-21 at the latest. That will help.

I know your head works differently but we aren't always talking the Leafs. Also, Miller hit 56 & 58 points the two years prior to last year's 47.... so i'll call him a 50 point player.

Do you think Tampa wanted to part with him? No, some retard offered up a 1st round pick early in the process.
- golfingsince

Miller has 1 50 point season 3 yeasa go

That's a fair post. The Leafs are in an interesting place right now. If things go right they could win the Cup. Or if things go bad it could blow up in their face. I guess any contender could say that though.

Sometimes the stars just align. Like the Blues. Get on a roll and carry the momentum. Or be like Tampa and light the regular season on fire only to $hit the bed in the playoffs. You're right. Dubas still has some work to do even after Marner signs. Rielly was a home run pick. He's going to get even better.
- gergeswillems

Yup, and that's probably true for at least the next 3 seasons, probably 5. At this point though they don't look like a favourite to me moving forward.