No matter how many times u say ppl here are supposedly “ok with us being bad again”
I can assure u,
We’ll all be upset if we finish with 80ish points

Pretty sure we are all looking for them to at least push for the playoffs
- jdfitz77

90 points is 6 wins and 2OTL more than last year.

Botterill fired his coach and got a bunch of new players. It's not a high bar

I don’t disregard the values of my community,
just that of douchebags
- jdfitz77

yeesh. come on man. no.

All I'm saying is that 4 out the 9 players that either haven't went to a meeting yet, or have had their hearing, are Sabres.

And seperate from that, arbitration is a rough process for both team and player. I would prefer that one of our core players does not need to go through that.
- TheSabresTaco

Ok, fair enough, but there was a team that had more players file, a team that had just as many, and 3 teams that had 3 players file. And perhaps McCabe and/or Ullmark settle before.

Most times it's the player's choice. Everyone seems to conveniently ignore that. Elie wanted a guarantee that he's going to get a paycheck this year. Smart move.

And these players know what they're getting into when they file. Let's not act like they're going to be surprised when management points out their faults. Both sides have jobs to do.

No, I don't want to see Rhino file either, but if he scores 40, he just may. And that might be smart on his part.

90 points is 6 wins and 2OTL more than last year.

Botterill fired his coach and got a bunch of new players. It's not a high bar
- jcragcrumple

Just bc most aren’t willing to draw an arbitrary line like you are doing,
doesn’t mean we are “ok with being bad either”

Minus the ROR trade,
Botts is doing a pretty good job imo

Clearly has us moving in the right direction

We aren’t on a Pens/Hawks timeline
Building for the long haul with defense & down the middle
I like that

Just bc most aren’t willing to draw an arbitrary line like you are doing,
doesn’t mean we are “ok with being bad either”

Minus the ROR trade,
Botts is doing a pretty good job imo

Clearly has us moving in the right direction

We aren’t on a Pens/Hawks timeline
Building for the long haul with defense & down the middle
I like that
- jdfitz77

You are free to draw whatever arbitrary line of success you like. My arbitrary barometer of progress and improvement is 90 points

You are free to draw whatever arbitrary line of success you like. My arbitrary barometer of progress and improvement is 90 points
- jcragcrumple

I won't allow this

I won't allow this
- jochfr

Stanley Cup. Nothing less.

Isn't it 3? Elie, Ullmark, McCabe. Who am I missing?
- buffalofan19

E-Radical

E-Radical
- TheSabresTaco

I thought you mean 9 players remaining.

The greatest 3rd/4th liner with an Hispanic Last Name of All Time was already finished.

83 points is 3.5 wins better than last year. That's not improvement imo
- jcragcrumple

Two ways to look at things...
- Elapsed Time - a rather rigid "No excuses"/"There has been enough time" measuring stick.
- Evaluation of Current Situation - analysis of roster, circumstances such as time to coalesce into an effective team given new players/system/coach/etc, and competitive landscape.

You are about 95% in the Elapsed Time catagory... which effectively means you think he has not done enough over the past 3 year period and he owns the current situation ... so no excuses.

I'm about 20% in that camp, but temper that with a) I believe the team is headed in the right direction, b) there were circumstances that pushed the timeline back, and c) recognition that another changing of the guard will just set it back for years, again.

As I stated previously, this year being another year of waiting is going to suck bad for the fans who have already been patient enough, but the real opportunity to compete effectively is in 2019-2020 (obviously barring some blockbuster trade(s))

I don't understand the love for Gardiner. He is not a very good defenseman. He is probably going to get paid too much and may or may not have a bad back that may require surgery at some point during his next contract.
Last year he played less than 7 minutes on the PK for the entire season. He gives the puck away more than any defenseman on our team. He gets more Ozone starts than Dzone starts, and being an offensive dman on such a high scoring team like the Leafs, his point totals are not very impressive.

I won't allow this
- jochfr

Harsh but fair

I don’t disregard the values of my community,
just that of douchebags
- jdfitz77

Solid post.

Ok, fair enough, but there was a team that had more players file, a team that had just as many, and 3 teams that had 3 players file. And perhaps McCabe and/or Ullmark settle before. Of course Sabres had most out of any. But we can assume all 4 will go to arb unless proven otherwise. Is it possible those two sign before then? Of course. That's not the issue I'm necessarily trying to point out. Just simply that 4/5 of our arb eligible files went, or could potentially go, to an arb hearing, which is rare as it is.. maybe one or two a year. Having 4 on the same team would be astronomical. Again, just an observation

Most times it's the player's choice. Everyone seems to conveniently ignore that. Elie wanted a guarantee that he's going to get a paycheck this year. Smart move. The second Elie was qualified, he had a paycheck for the year. There was no need to go to arb, because in his case, his base QO was 735,000. Sabres might be at 700, he may be at who (frank)ing cares, because he won't make more than 750. So he's fighting for every dollar, which frankly is his right. If he lands 750K, he gets a 15K raise, and for a player like him, all the better. But if he loses, he gambled 35K.

And these players know what they're getting into when they file. Let's not act like they're going to be surprised when management points out their faults. Both sides have jobs to do. Not the point I was really trying to bring up, but yes, of course. They all understand the business side of it. I was just saying, I highly prefer that he doesn't poop on a core player next year. I personally just feel it's bad business and sets a bad vibe. Just an opinion.

No, I don't want to see Rhino file either, but if he scores 40, he just may. And that might be smart on his part. Again, if he has to file, that's totally his right. He absolutely should file. I'm just saying, Botterill should also, absolutely come to terms before the hearing.
- Powerslave

I don’t disregard the values of my community,
just that of douchebags
- jdfitz77

So you’re saying you enjoy living in Lockport?

I won't allow this
- jochfr

I thought you mean 9 players remaining.

The greatest 3rd/4th liner with an Hispanic Last Name of All Time was already finished.
- buffalofan19

Yeah, 3 hearings done, 6 remain (at most)

I won't allow this
- jochfr

Lines

I don't understand the love for Gardiner. He is not a very good defenseman. He is probably going to get paid too much and may or may not have a bad back that may require surgery at some point during his next contract.
Last year he played less than 7 minutes on the PK for the entire season. He gives the puck away more than any defenseman on our team. He gets more Ozone starts than Dzone starts, and being an offensive dman on such a high scoring team like the Leafs, his point totals are not very impressive.
- adambuffalo

False.

I highly encourage you to give yourself a fair and balanced look at him.

Evolvingwild, Naturalstattrick, and Sean Tierney are 3 wonderful resources

False.
- TheSabresTaco

True

True
- adambuffalo

No, it's not. Dahlin had 79 GA. Gardiner had 53. Look for yourself.

https://www.foxsports.com...8&category=DEFENSE&time=0

True
- adambuffalo

True, if huge.

I don’t disregard the values of my community,
just that of douchebags
- jdfitz77

You’re gonnaneed a bigger boat.

Lines
- sbroads24

Cocaine?

- TheSabresTaco