point taken...but he never signed any of them to long-term contracts and obviously wasn't looking at them as long-term solutions
- Michael Pachla

Sure, but I still think 3 drafts and 3 off-seasons is a reasonable and fair time frame to expect someone to assemble a playoff-caliber team.

We're officially beyond "cant rush the rebuild" with him. 3 off-seasons should be enough to do it right

Again, if this team finishes bottom 5 like some of the projections have it.

What happens?

Botts gets a pass because it was never about this year?

Do we get to question whether this is the right fit?
- ImThatGuy

if we finish bottom 5 he has some serious questions to answer.. they at a minimum need to be in contention for a playoff spot going into their final 5 games of the season

Long term? Probably not, but different markets pose different challenges when it comes to getting fan interest. They probably need to be a playoff team to stay relevant in that city.
- buffalofan19

fair enough

Sure, but I still think 3 drafts and 3 off-seasons is a reasonable and fair time frame to expect someone to assemble a playoff-caliber team.

We're officially beyond "cant rush the rebuild" with him. 3 off-seasons should be enough to do it right
- jcragcrumple

depends upon how big of a mess you think he inherited...buffalo and Rochester were in shambles and as we move forward we're beginning to see that the prospect pool wasn't as deep as we'd hoped...

that's a lot of work imo

Make it stop!

if we finish bottom 5 he has some serious questions to answer.. they at a minimum need to be in contention for a playoff spot going into their final 5 games of the season
- SabresFaninIndiana

His two biggest mistakes were the O'Reilly trade and hiring housley. What I question is, were these his decisions, or forced upon him??

depends upon how big of a mess you think he inherited...buffalo and Rochester were in shambles and as we move forward we're beginning to see that the prospect pool wasn't as deep as we'd hoped...

that's a lot of work imo
- Michael Pachla

This is rational thinking that isn’t using revisionist history

His two biggest mistakes were the O'Reilly trade and hiring housley. What I question is, were these his decisions, or forced upon him??
- turbo044

Well, remember, the two biggest names available were Housley and Rick Tocchet. The rumor was the Pegula's weren't fond of the idea of Tocchet because of character issues surrounding his past in gambling.

We'll probably never know what really happened with the O'Reilly trade unless Jason Botterill becomes a Hall of Fame caliber GM and writes an autobiography that people will actually want to read.

This is rational thinking that isn’t using revisionist history
- sbroads24

It's not typical around these parts.

depends upon how big of a mess you think he inherited...buffalo and Rochester were in shambles and as we move forward we're beginning to see that the prospect pool wasn't as deep as we'd hoped...

that's a lot of work imo
- Michael Pachla

Sure, but he hasn't exactly always "built it the right way" either. He only drafted an average of 6 times per draft.

He spent four 3rd round picks on Beaulieu, Pommer + Scandella, Vesey and Skinner. Obviously the last one is good.

The sheen has worn off of Botterill for me. He needs to do it this year, or he should be gone imo.

You are reaching here with "playing hardball" with the Arb cases, since the player filed to go to Arb. Holding the line on these guys is a good move.

-IMO, he "lost" by a little with Erod, should have been around $1.75. His next QO of $2.20 now makes him a prime trade candidate at the next TDL.
-Ellie is a complete (frank)ing joke of a filing, go 1 year on him pay whatever and dump him in the AHL. Hardly worth the Arb hearing effort.
-Ulmark has 1 yr. of pedestrian numbers, he should get like $1.5...but the Arb award will be higher. It's kinda of a prove it deal then either on a 1 yr or 2 year term
-McCabe is interesting. Still very useful, however hampered by track record of playing 60 games or 3/4 of a season

fair enough
- Michael Pachla

Buffalo's stable fanbase is a big advantage to any GM that wants to take the "patient" approach. Sure, people like me will female dog and complain, but we'll also keep watching because it's the only game in town.

If we were in a four-team city like Minneapolis/St. Paul, many of us would simply spend more time watching the Timberwolves play instead (granted they were terrible too).

Obviously, you need to convince ownership, at least incrementally, that the plan is working (something Murray couldn't do), and that you're not a complete disaster, but a market like Buffalo affords a much larger margin for error.

You are reaching here with "playing hardball" with the Arb cases, since the player filed to go to Arb. Holding the line on these guys is a good move.

-IMO, he "lost" by a little with Erod, should have been around $1.75. His next QO of $2.20 now makes him a prime trade candidate at the next TDL.
-Ellie is a complete (frank)ing joke of a filing, go 1 year on him pay whatever and dump him in the AHL. Hardly worth the Arb hearing effort.
-Ulmark has 1 yr. of pedestrian numbers, he should get like $1.5...but the Arb award will be higher. It's kinda of a prove it deal then either on a 1 yr or 2 year term
-McCabe is interesting. Still very useful, however hampered by track record of playing 60 games or 3/4 of a season
- IonSabres

i wish i could be a fly on the wall for the Ellie hearing..

Again, if this team finishes bottom 5 like some of the projections have it.

What happens?

Botts gets a pass because it was never about this year?

Do we get to question whether this is the right fit?
- ImThatGuy

Yes and yes.
He gets another year because like 19 said, he apparently sold Pegula's on a 4 year plan...Terry even stated publically that the 10 game win streak while exciting, was not anything they thought was a barometer of their true capabilities...everything went their way.
Buckle up for a moderate improvement over last year. This sights are set on the following season.

Yes, you get to evaluate them/him. The focus should be on
A) how well the core and recent acquisitions are doing...not Girgs, Larry, Wilson, Sobotka, etc
B) progression of the younger talent... are they showing consistent signs of taking the next step?

Like it or not, that is reality.

This is rational thinking that isn’t using revisionist history
- sbroads24

Please address this:



Botterill has made 18 draft picks in 3 years

GMTM made 16 draft picks in 2 years



One is supposedly building it "the right way"

His two biggest mistakes were the O'Reilly trade and hiring housley. What I question is, were these his decisions, or forced upon him??
- turbo044

the other question is, did he get enough for Kane

Sure, but he hasn't exactly always "built it the right way" either. He only drafted an average of 6 times per draft.

He spent four 3rd round picks on Beaulieu, Pommer + Scandella, Vesey and Skinner. Obviously the last one is good.

The sheen has worn off of Botterill for me. He needs to do it this year, or he should be gone imo.
- jcragcrumple

He also acquired a top 4 D in Miller for a 2nd

He acquired a current top 5-10 D prospect for a guy most of us were writing off

He acquired Skinner for nothing, and got him signed

Has signed 0 long term deals outside of Skinner

Has had very good early returns on his mid-round picks.

But yes, let’s make this season alone determine the next 5-10

He also acquired a top 4 D in Miller for a 2nd

He acquired a current top 5-10 D prospect for a guy most of us were writing off

He acquired Skinner for nothing, and got him signed

Has signed 0 long term deals outside of Skinner

Has had very good early returns on his mid-round picks.

But yes, let’s make this season alone determine the next 5-10
- sbroads24

Vesey wasn't brought here to be a rental.

Please address this:



Botterill has made 18 draft picks in 3 years

GMTM made 16 draft picks in 2 years



One is supposedly building it "the right way"
- jcragcrumple

well.... half of GMTMs picks were horribly bad.. so im not sure this is a solid argument. If Botts picks 6 guys in 3 years that make it to the nhl while GMTM picks 2 in 2 years who is better?

Vesey wasn't brought here to be a rental.
- SABRES 89

That doesn't mean he's going to get a seven year deal, either, though.

That doesn't mean he's going to get a seven year deal, either, though.
- buffalofan19

Did I say anything about 7 years.

well.... half of GMTMs picks were horribly bad.. so im not sure this is a solid argument. If Botts picks 6 guys in 3 years that make it to the nhl while GMTM picks 2 in 2 years who is better?
- SabresFaninIndiana

I'm not here to defend Murray. He sucked. But when people talk about Botterill being patient and building the right way, it is relevant to say that he has only made 18 draft selections in 3 years while rebuilding

Please address this:



Botterill has made 18 draft picks in 3 years

GMTM made 16 draft picks in 2 years



One is supposedly building it "the right way"
- jcragcrumple

Who are you trying to convince here, the posters on here who have zero say in what the owner does, or Terry, hoping that he reads these pages?

If they bring back a GM you can't stand, all you can do as a pissed off fan is stop watching their product. That's your one and only choice.

That doesn't mean he's going to get a seven year deal, either, though.
- buffalofan19

It'll be 8 years

How is he not lowballing here? Team offered a number with technically no raise.

why are there more Sabres players filing than the rest of the NHL combined.

That doesn’t seem odd to you?
- ImThatGuy

Because if you're the bumhole that makes the "low" offer the sticker price, then you deserve to pay more than the commodity is worth.