And the 2mil extra on Eriksson's contract. And Russell is much less of a blackhole than he's made out to be. Still a burden cap-wise and someone that doesn't fit into the future of this team, but he's not Cody Ceci.
- MaximumBone

Russell is only a shot blocker with nothing else to give at this point in his career.

Its about 9.7m in & 6.5m out cap wise. Either Holland swings a minor cap trade finding a million or so or Canucks tweak to make it work.

Overall the Oil get better depth & more versatility for the PK etc.

Add Schaller for Gagner to make the cap work. Both are pawns for the AHL.

I don’t really care if a bunch of monkeys run the Oilers. Those monkeys pay Jesse’s salary, they drafted him and they own his rights for the foreseeable future. Until JP proves he is worth more than a bag of (frank)ing pucks it’s not his role to question management as a (frank)ing ELC player. He can either make it count on the ice to gain some leverage and earn his spot in the top 6 or he can STFU and move on as a UFA. What he is doing now is just lowering his value and (frank)ing the Oil over further while sewering his own reputation as an entitled clown who expects top 6 McDavid minutes to be handed to him on a silver spoon.
- RonPielep

I guess we gotta disagree in principle then. I believe the opinion you're expressing here is steeped in an old school, elitist hockey narrative where the old guard and management know best and that you should ignore evidence to the contrary.

They're paying him to play the best hockey he can. He's confident that the best hockey he can play and the most he can contribute to the team is in a role further up the lineup- a role he has PROVEN capable of playing. The organization believes otherwise.

Since this disagreement can (and is) literally costing him millions of dollars, the organization he's standing against has a history of similar failures and since earning-time is short for most professional athletes, he's taking steps he believes necessary to avoid sewering the chances at said fruitful career.

I'm not pleased that he's taking the approach he has to this path (being vocal about it), but I have no personal issues with following the path.

Russell is only a shot blocker with nothing else to give at this point in his career.

Its about 9.7m in & 6.5m out cap wise. Either Holland swings a minor cap trade finding a million or so or Canucks tweak to make it work.

Overall the Oil get better depth & more versatility for the PK etc.

Add Schaller for Gagner to make the cap work. Both are pawns for the AHL.
- Nighthawk

And yet he has been playing top-4 minutes pretty effectively the past 3 years. He's not perfect and has serious flaws in his game, but he isn't getting caved in team-relative results (various goal shares/rates) and team-relative process numbers (various shot and chance shares/rates).

I guess we gotta disagree in principle then. I believe the opinion you're expressing here is steeped in an old school, elitist hockey narrative where the old guard and management know best and that you should ignore evidence to the contrary.

They're paying him to play the best hockey he can. He's confident that the best hockey he can play and the most he can contribute to the team is in a role further up the lineup- a role he has PROVEN capable of playing. The organization believes otherwise.

Since this disagreement can (and is) literally costing him millions of dollars, the organization he's standing against has a history of similar failures and since earning-time is short for most professional athletes, he's taking steps he believes necessary to avoid sewering the chances at said fruitful career.

I'm not pleased that he's taking the approach he has to this path (being vocal about it), but I have no personal issues with following the path.
- MaximumBone

I actually don’t think we are disagreeing as much as it might seem. I think my previous statement about him not being mismanaged was a bit insincere and tongue in cheek which is probably the root of our disagreement.

In truth and hindsight I do not believe he was managed properly at all. But my comment stems more from the fact that I think he was mismanaged more to his favour than otherwise and that regardless of whether he had optimal development it’s not his job to question it and make entitled demands. If anything his development curve should be more similar to Juolevi which probably would have made his entitled ass even more disgruntled.

That’s a flaw in the character of the child, you can call it old-school and elitist all you want but the truth is companies don’t hire summer students to ask them how they should run their business. If that makes me old school so be it, in my opinion it is reality and it’s that way for a reason. The alternative scenario where U20 players get to dictate their development plan or demand a trade is not only ass backward but it’s complete fantasy nonsense.

Imagine James Neal demanding a trade for not being paired with McDavid next year. Then imagine James Neal is 20 with no NHL pedigree (JPs NHL pedigree can’t hold a candle to Neal’s or even Lucic) coming fresh off an ELC. The person you are imagining in this thought experiment is an immature, entitled clown who no NHL GM should be hoping to add to their list of problems.

Dude is such a (frank)ing putz. I mean yeah, I get it Jesse. You’ve been mismanaged. But how in the (frank) is this pouting fit gonna help him long term?
- Wildschwein

Wrong way to go about but he has a point, he’s been mismanaged his entire career. He looked good playing with McD but so does Chiasson.
Send him to Calgary for a 2nd, BT stupid enough to do this.

I don’t really care if a bunch of monkeys run the Oilers. Those monkeys pay Jesse’s salary, they drafted him and they own his rights for the foreseeable future. Until JP proves he is worth more than a bag of (frank)ing pucks it’s not his role to question management as a (frank)ing ELC player. He can either make it count on the ice to gain some leverage and earn his spot in the top 6 or he can STFU and move on as a UFA. What he is doing now is just lowering his value and (frank)ing the Oil over further while sewering his own reputation as an entitled clown who expects top 6 McDavid minutes to be handed to him on a silver spoon.
- RonPielep

Agree Oilers have been run by a bunch of monkey. Fire Nicholson and Lowe, pull the bandage off!

But the priority for them should be to win and I showed Puljujarvi can contribute to that in his numbers w/ McDavid. If his results with McDavid are comparable to Drai's results with McDavid and the 2nd line's results with Drai available for use there, wouldn't it behoove them to try to make a Drai/Nuge duo work? Two lines that outscore the opposition is precisely what we've been hoping for since forever, right? If they can craft two lines that outscore, they're miles closer to winning regularly which should be their primary goal.

Further, putting him in that position gives him the kind of offensive production that would make him a valuable trade asset that we could move out for something else that we need. The NHL is after all a value game. How much on-ice value can a player provide and how can that value be most effectively exploited to help the team win?

The doctrine of "prove it further down the lineup before getting a spot higher up" only holds true if you maintain that standard consistently. After his disastrous rookie year, Draisaitl went down the AHL for 4 games and then stepped right into the 2nd line spot with Hall. Sure, the team was desperate for Cs, but any more desperate than they are for wingers now?

Rattie proved nothing further down the lineup and got gifted a spot immediately upon his callup. Caggiula only proved his ability to get woefully outscored down the lineup but still played more minutes with McDavid last year. Yamamoto couldn't produce a lick of offense and yet even HE saw more time with McDavid last year.
- MaximumBone

I don’t care if JP is paired with Khaira as his center. As an ELC he should make the most of a bad situation, be thankful he is playing in the NHL at all and force his way into the top 6 with raw offensive production. No excuses and no trade demands.

I’m not really interested in JPs stats with McDavid. I think his stats without McDavid are by far more important and the fact that a bunch of other bottom 6 players (Kassian, Caggiula, Yamo, Rattie) have put up decent numbers next to McD only reinforces that. Even though he hasn’t earned an NHL job, JP was gifted some time in the top 6 and did not make the most of it. Rattie initially made better of his promotion and now he isn’t even an NHL player so I’m not sure what the value is with quoting numbers that are clearly driven more by McDavid than any other factor.

With all that, I do agree with most of your post. If JP wasn’t such a loser it would be best to pair him with McD for a short period to drive up his value. Having two scoring lines would be great but I believe I’ve also seen you make posts as to why Drai and McD should be kept together so I’m a bit confused about your current petition for a Nuge Drai line.

Comparing Drais initial performance with Hall to JP’s initial performance with McD is night and day and you can’t show me any numbers to change my mind on that. Actually you could show me one, how much did Hall’s line improve after having an AHL level Center to Draisaitl compared to how much McDs line improved after having an AHL level RW to Jesse. Night and day is my guess.

Just to simplify my previous statement I believe

|Hall.AHL_C.StandardRW - Hall.Drai.StandardRW| >>> |StandardLW.McD.AHL_RW - StandardLW.McD.JP|.

That’s my prediction/observation anyways. The biggest reason for this to me is that McDavids contribution is so overwhelming that it mostly dampens the measurable contribution/differences of his linemates.

Maybe that doesn’t simplify things haha.

That’s a flaw in the character of the child, you can call it old-school and elitist all you want but the truth is companies don’t hire summer students to ask them how they should run their business. If that makes me old school so be it, in my opinion it is reality and it’s that way for a reason. The alternative scenario where U20 players get to dictate their development plan or demand a trade is not only ass backward but it’s complete fantasy nonsense.
- RonPielep

Odd and not an analogy I can agree is applicable here.

Imagine a New York law firm known for it's shortcomings in management goes out of its way to recruit and hire an elite candidate (top 3 of his graduating class) from a top university. He has apprehensions about them but hey, they're offering good money, so he signs a 3-yr employment contract with 4 years of a company option (where they can renew at greater compensation if he does well). This "kid's" major in university was in finance law (or something, I don't know much about the legal world) and the company gives him a brief chance there where he seems to do just fine alongside their top [legal professional title].

However, after that brief success, they decide he hasn't "proven himself" to have earned that spot and instead place him in the (idk) accounting department next to a veteran from another department who is known for dragging daily output results down in accounting. He struggles. Further, they also throw him down to a subsidiary partner firm in (frank)ing Tulsa once in a while where earning potential is much lower, but he at least gets to do what he's trained for.

The matter comes to a head in the 3rd year of his contract when he catches and illness that impacts his performance with the company all while he's still be Richarded around between the New York accounting department and (frank)ing Tulsa. At the end of the year, that company comes to you saying "You haven't performed as well as we had hoped, but we'd still like to have you back. We'll likely still need you in the Accounting department, though". Do you not believe the employee is justified in raising some issue with how he's been utilized and would like to find a way out of his contract and into another firm?

Not a perfect analogy I'll admit; it's fair to say that Puljujarvi is still doing some of what he's trained for in his situation, but I think it covers most of how I view this particular issue.

I’m not really interested in JPs stats with McDavid. I think his stats without McDavid are by far more important and the fact that a bunch of other bottom 6 players (Kassian, Caggiula, Yamo, Rattie) have put up decent numbers next to McD only reinforces that. Even though he hasn’t earned an NHL job, JP was gifted some time in the top 6 and did not make the most of it. Rattie initially made better of his promotion and now he isn’t even an NHL player so I’m not sure what the value is with quoting numbers that are clearly driven more by McDavid than any other factor.
- RonPielep

Rattie and Caggiula dragged McDavid's results into negative goal shares, Yamamoto dragged his 5-on-5 offensive results down a fair deal while Puljujarvi seemed to improve both his process numbers and results numbers even when compared to the best linemate McDavid has (Draisaitl). Again, different minutes and deployment so that's not an absolute statement.

Further, while his numbers with Nuge were unimpressive and his minutes with Drai were virtually non-existent, his numbers with Strome DID show a capable NHL player further down the roster. Together with Lucic (lol), they produced enough to pull even and even outscore overall. These aren't things any of the remainder had shown.

For clarity, I take no issue with Kassian there. He's an energizer and brings value in that spot while not negatively impacting results.

With all that, I do agree with most of your post. If JP wasn’t such a loser it would be best to pair him with McD for a short period to drive up his value. Having two scoring lines would be great but I believe I’ve also seen you make posts as to why Drai and McD should be kept together so I’m a bit confused about your current petition for a Nuge Drai line.
- RonPielep

In no way am I advocating for that now. I'm merely presenting the argument that I believe Puljujarvi and his camp are justified in making and, in turn, warrants some of the actions they've taken (not being vocal about it, but the rest). I absolutely believe that keeping those two together is the best we can do until we have the wingers that help Draisaitl to drive outscoring results on his own line.

Let's say we traded Nuge for someone like Gallagher and we acquired Zucker in a separate trade. I would absolutely support separating the two as splitting them up doesn't mean one gets stuck with trash anymore. Until that is the case, however, it's best to keep them together- if only to placate them while the management tries to piece things back together.

Comparing Drais initial performance with Hall to JP’s initial performance with McD is night and day and you can’t show me any numbers to change my mind on that. Actually you could show me one, how much did Hall’s line improve after having an AHL level Center to Draisaitl compared to how much McDs line improved after having an AHL level RW to Jesse. Night and day is my guess.
- RonPielep

Interesting and fair counterpoint. There likely wouldn't be a sample large enough to qualify that from that same season, but I can look into other years to try to find something if you'd like me to. Keep in mind that Puljujarvi's goal share results w/ McDavid when compared to Rattie's equal out to a difference of around +14% (~47% to ~61%).

But he did delete his cowardly threat to you that started the whole poopshow.
- RonPielep

Yeah. I saw he deleted that. He also deleted the post I changed to reflect his threat.

Odd and not an analogy I can agree is applicable here.

Imagine a New York law firm known for it's shortcomings in management goes out of its way to recruit and hire an elite candidate (top 3 of his graduating class) from a top university. He has apprehensions about them but hey, they're offering good money, so he signs a 3-yr employment contract with 4 years of a company option (where they can renew at greater compensation if he does well). This "kid's" major in university was in finance law (or something, I don't know much about the legal world) and the company gives him a brief chance there where he seems to do just fine alongside their top
- MaximumBone[legal professional title].

However, after that brief success, they decide he hasn't "proven himself" to have earned that spot and instead place him in the (idk) accounting department next to a veteran from another department who is known for dragging daily output results down in accounting. He struggles. Further, they also throw him down to a subsidiary partner firm in (frank)ing Tulsa once in a while where earning potential is much lower, but he at least gets to do what he's trained for.

The matter comes to a head in the 3rd year of his contract when he catches and illness that impacts his performance with the company all while he's still be Richarded around between the New York accounting department and (frank)ing Tulsa. At the end of the year, that company comes to you saying "You haven't performed as well as we had hoped, but we'd still like to have you back. We'll likely still need you in the Accounting department, though". Do you not believe the employee is justified in raising some issue with how he's been utilized and would like to find a way out of his contract and into another firm?

Not a perfect analogy I'll admit; it's fair to say that Puljujarvi is still doing some of what he's trained for in his situation, but I think it covers most of how I view this particular issue.

The entire premise that you insinuate that playing in the AHL (“(frank)ing Tulsa”) is so below JP is exactly the problem with his development and with JP’s entitled mindset.

Rattie and Caggiula dragged McDavid's results into negative goal shares, Yamamoto dragged his 5-on-5 offensive results down a fair deal while Puljujarvi seemed to improve both his process numbers and results numbers even when compared to the best linemate McDavid has (Draisaitl). Again, different minutes and deployment so that's not an absolute statement.

Further, while his numbers with Nuge were unimpressive and his minutes with Drai were virtually non-existent, his numbers with Strome DID show a capable NHL player further down the roster. Together with Lucic (lol), they produced enough to pull even and even outscore overall. These aren't things any of the remainder had shown.

For clarity, I take no issue with Kassian there. He's an energizer and brings value in that spot while not negatively impacting results.


In no way am I advocating for that now. I'm merely presenting the argument that I believe Puljujarvi and his camp are justified in making and, in turn, warrants some of the actions they've taken (not being vocal about it, but the rest). I absolutely believe that keeping those two together is the best we can do until we have the wingers that help Draisaitl to drive outscoring results on his own line.

Let's say we traded Nuge for someone like Gallagher and we acquired Zucker in a separate trade. I would absolutely support separating the two as splitting them up doesn't mean one gets stuck with trash anymore. Until that is the case, however, it's best to keep them together- if only to placate them while the management tries to piece things back together.


Interesting and fair counterpoint. There likely wouldn't be a sample large enough to qualify that from that same season, but I can look into other years to try to find something if you'd like me to. Keep in mind that Puljujarvi's goal share results w/ McDavid when compared to Rattie's equal out to a difference of around +14% (~47% to ~61%).
- MaximumBone

Was JP playing with Drai and McDavid? The problem I have with that analysis is that it doesn’t isolate the confounding variables of McDs line-mates which I believe you acknowledge.

Nevertheless, the most this type of analysis might provide is solid justification why JP should be tried on the McD line for an extended period. Although you don’t compare his stats with Kassian who is the current and most relevant option.

Regardless, with his own entitled stupid behaviour JP has essentially eliminated any motivation the Oil might have for pairing him with McD.

Also, you can show me limited sample-size possession stats all day long but the reality is JP doesn’t have a strong raw stat line in his brief NHL career and he hasn’t produced anywhere near a top 6 winger (not even close to sniffing 20G/40P) so he should feel like a (frank)ing moron for demanding a trade if he isn’t being used as a top 6 nhl forward. Not to mention he is coming off an ELC and he should have probably spent the last 2 years in (frank)ing Tulsa even if it is below his inflated ego.

Yeah. I saw he deleted that. He also deleted the post I changed to reflect his threat.
- RafiDRW

Yeah I think he was embarrassed that he got a little trigger happy.

Maybe he felt like power tripping because it was a bad day at work where his 19 year old boss was telling him how to do the entry level job he has been trying to succeed at for a few decades.

Both sides share blame here.....JP should have never been with the Oilers and that became obvious quickly.....should have either gone to Europe and then the AHL or right into the AHL and left there till he proved he was ready to play in an Oilers jersey but again it’s too much too soon and here we are......JP deserves blame too tho.....to me it’s clear he wasn’t doing everything in his power to be a better player and then makes noise when they want to send him back down to the AHL.....does he think he is better then the AHL? You didn’t see Yamo or Jones or the other guys make a stink over it but JP?....also it seems clear to me that there is a locker room issue as well

And yet he has been playing top-4 minutes pretty effectively the past 3 years. He's not perfect and has serious flaws in his game, but he isn't getting caved in team-relative results (various goal shares/rates) and team-relative process numbers (various shot and chance shares/rates).
- MaximumBone

I’m only stating Russell is good at what he does but not much else. He is better as a 5/6 D. The overall roster is the big issue.

Spitballin...

Stecher/Virtanen/Eriksson
for
Puljujarvi/2nd/Russell

Affordable mobile RHD for a plug
Swap of 1st rounders
New scenery for LE to help defensive play

Reasonable trade imo helping out the depth while Holland makes his mark over the next few years.
- Nighthawk

The Oil for far far too long have had no organizational depth or a clue how to surround top draft picks. Nothing has changed. Management has set back the team at least 4-5yrs with the cronies running the show. Holland needs time to turn it around & Lowe etc have to go.

Prospect pool is improving but not enough help is coming soon. Sorry but it’s getting better & how the cap gets managed & prospects developed are the biggest challenges Holland faces. It won’t be easy.

- RafiDRW

I hearya but it is only a start to change the culture. Something is needed.

The Oil for far far too long have had no organizational depth or a clue how to surround top draft picks. Nothing has changed. Management has set back the team at least 4-5yrs with the cronies running the show. Holland needs time to turn it around & Lowe etc have to go.

Prospect pool is improving but not enough help is coming soon. Sorry but it’s getting better & how the cap gets managed & prospects developed are the biggest challenges Holland faces. It won’t be easy.
- Nighthawk

24 mil next offseason in cap space.....that will no longer be an excuse with a Nurse being the only big name to resign

24 mil next offseason in cap space.....that will no longer be an excuse with a Nurse being the only big name to resign
- RatedR80

Excuses are long gone. Time to climb up the rankings. Overdue.

Excuses are long gone. Time to climb up the rankings. Overdue.
- Nighthawk

Tell that to the string of morons who have run this team....the McDavid draft should have been the beginning of a new era and not the same old

Both sides share blame here.....JP should have never been with the Oilers and that became obvious quickly.....should have either gone to Europe and then the AHL or right into the AHL and left there till he proved he was ready to play in an Oilers jersey but again it’s too much too soon and here we are......JP deserves blame too tho.....to me it’s clear he wasn’t doing everything in his power to be a better player and then makes noise when they want to send him back down to the AHL.....does he think he is better then the AHL? You didn’t see Yamo or Jones or the other guys make a stink over it but JP?....also it seems clear to me that there is a locker room issue as well
- RatedR80

99% of prospects take AHL assignments with an old-school/elitist attitude, i.e., they stfu and do as they’re told because nobody who runs an NHL team wants to ask 18 year olds what the best development plan for them is (of course they’d all ask to play beside McDavid). Jesse is the 1% and if you think he would’ve been happier or any less entitled spending his first two years without seeing any NHL action (the consensus preferred development path) then I think you are lying to yourself. JP wanted an NHL job in his first year and now even capitulating to that isn’t good enough for him. Now he is entitled to be a first line winger with McD or demand a trade. (frank)ing nonsense backwards world this child lives in. But I guess I’m just an old school elitist.

The entire premise that you insinuate that playing in the AHL (“(frank)ing Tulsa”) is so below JP is exactly the problem with his development and with JP’s entitled mindset.
- RonPielep

That was actually just intended as a bit of a reference to a Daniel Tosh bit in one of his stand-up shows where he uses Tulsa as the butt of the joke. Nothing meant by it other than that, but I can see how it could be taken as such. My bad.

99% of prospects take AHL assignments with an old-school/elitist attitude, i.e., they stfu and do as they’re told because nobody who runs an NHL team wants to ask 18 year olds what the best development plan for them is (of course they’d all ask to play beside McDavid). Jesse is the 1% and if you think he would’ve been happier or any less entitled spending his first two years without seeing any NHL action (the consensus preferred development path) then I think you are lying to yourself. JP wanted an NHL job in his first year and now even capitulating to that isn’t good enough for him. Now he is entitled to be a first line winger with McD or demand a trade. (frank)ing nonsense backwards world this child lives in. But I guess I’m just an old school elitist.
- RonPielep

It’s not just you.....I have referred to Puju as an entitled brat because he is acting like one just as I’m saying he hasn’t done everything in his power to become a better player.....the very first sign should have been the draft when his country man passed him up.....that should have told a story but the majority of us ignored that because Puju fell to us