Larry
Girgs
Wilson

Then expiring:

Vesey
Sheary
Sobotka
Scandella
Bogo
Hunwick

9/10 are things he did.
- jcragcrumple

Again, what's your point?

Burn the arena down.

Larry
Girgs
Wilson

Then expiring:

Vesey
Sheary
Sobotka
Scandella
Bogo
Hunwick

9/10 are things he did.
- jcragcrumple

And they're all off the books next summer. Aiming for this summer does very little for this team in the short term, and even less in the long term.

What's your point?

He had to fill out the roster, refill the cupboards, build a team for the long haul while putting a team on the ice for the short haul. Every team has undesirable players/contracts.

Let me guess, in your world, we just wave our Harry Potter wands and poof! Everything fixed?
- Powerslave

I think his point is (I may be wrong) that the whole This is still Tim Murray’s mess narrative is not really true.

This is Botts team he has been building for now 3 years. If it sucks it is 100% on him.

And they're all off the books next summer. Aiming for this summer does very little for this team in the short term, and even less in the long term.
- buffalofan19

They should "Murray" this sh!t up again!

And they're all off the books next summer. Aiming for this summer does very little for this team in the short term, and even less in the long term.
- buffalofan19

So finish last and get a lottery pick this year then?

What's your point?

He had to fill out the roster, refill the cupboards, build a team for the long haul while putting a team on the ice for the short haul. Every team has undesirable players/contracts.

Let me guess, in your world, we just wave our Harry Potter wands and poof! Everything fixed?
- Powerslave

I'm just saying there are two arguments for Botterill that negate each other:

The fact that he has to wait till next year to clean up the cap problem that he helped create

And

These expiring UFAs that we're happy to see go cost two 3rds, a 4th, a 5th. That's without Beaulieu.

So we're waiting for the contracts to expire that he acquired using Garth's premium murrancy. I'm not enamored with this plan.

I think his point is (I may be wrong) that the whole This is still Tim Murray’s mess narrative is not really true.

This is Botts team he has been building for now 3 years. If it sucks it is 100% on him.
- ImThatGuy

Ok, but who mentioned Tim Murray?

I think his point is (I may be wrong) that the whole This is still Tim Murray’s mess narrative is not really true.

This is Botts team he has been building for now 3 years. If it sucks it is 100% on him.
- ImThatGuy

Yeah. He's cleaning up his own mess now

While we're talking about restocking the cupboards:

He's also traded a 1st, two 2nds, four 3rds, two 4ths, a 5th and a bunch of guys. Let's see if it makes us any less sucky.

Yeah. He's cleaning up his own mess now

While we're talking about restocking the cupboards:

He's also traded a 1st, two 2nds, four 3rds, two 4ths, a 5th and a bunch of guys. Let's see if it makes us any less sucky.
- jcragcrumple

If I remember correctly - isn't a 2nd basically a 1st? so he really traded 3 firsts then right? Did I do that right?

So finish last and get a lottery pick this year then?
- ImThatGuy

It doesn't have to be "either/or". Obviously, you want to see improvement. If a Top 5 pick ends up being the result, then Botterill's job absolutely should be in question.

However, it's blatantly obvious to anybody paying attention that he is aiming towards next season, right or wrong.

I'm just saying there are two arguments for Botterill that negate each other:

The fact that he has to wait till next year to clean up the cap problem that he helped create

And

These expiring UFAs that we're happy to see go cost two 3rds, a 4th, a 5th. That's without Beaulieu.

So we're waiting for the contracts to expire that he acquired using Garth's premium murrancy. I'm not enamored with this plan.
- jcragcrumple

He took the "it's going to get worse before it gets better" approach. I don't necessarily like it, but I understand it. And four mid-round draft picks don't upset me at all. It's really not that much in compensation.

I am in no way guaranteeing this is going to turn this team into a Cup contender in 2022 and beyond, but I do know there was no way this team was becoming anywhere close to one in 2020. That was absurdly obvious after the 2017-2018 season.

It doesn't have to be "either/or". Obviously, you want to see improvement. If a Top 5 pick ends up being the result, then Botterill's job absolutely should be in question.

However, it's blatantly obvious to anybody paying attention that he is aiming towards next season, right or wrong.
- buffalofan19

If he sold the owners on a 4 year plan, not to mention finally getting the coach he wanted in the first place, he's got a job going into 2020.

And that's fine by me.

Long term success isn't built in two offseasons (yes, year one was evaluation).

Then stop saying it.

What do you want me to tell you?

Go have a hissy fit, then. That'll fix it.

He's got to get these contracts off the books. That takes another year.
- Powerslave

You said it not me

If he sold the owners on a 4 year plan, not to mention finally getting the coach he wanted in the first place, he's got a job going into 2020.

And that's fine by me.

Long term success isn't built in two offseasons (yes, year one was evaluation).
- Powerslave

It was an evaluation, but I don't think he planned on having the league's worst record in 2018 either. Going out and acquiring Pominville and Scandella, who I can't imagine anyone thinking he would be this bad, tells me he wanted to get at least somewhat better right away. My guess is that the "four year plan" included playoffs by this season. The question is whether or not it's a deal-breaker.

It was an evaluation, but I don't think he planned on having the league's worst record in 2018 either. Going out and acquiring Pominville and Scandella, who I can't imagine anyone thinking he would be this bad, tells me he wanted to get at least somewhat better right away. My guess is that the "four year plan" included playoffs by this season. The question is whether or not it's a deal-breaker.
- buffalofan19

But that got us Dahlin, so luck was finally smiling upon us.

Maybe it included playoffs, but like you said, it's a guess.

And, right, Scandella was a decent defenseman in Minny. At this point, the trade is a wash, at worst.

Going out and acquiring Pominville and Scandella, who I can't imagine anyone thinking he would be this bad, tells me he wanted to get at least somewhat better right away.
- buffalofan19

That may be true, however Scandella will be off the books after this year (if not sooner) whereas without the trade we would still have Foligno for another season at $2.88m and Ennis this year for $4.6m. It seems that while he may have been trying to get better right away, he was still looking at the future in terms of salary. For what it's worth, Minnesota is paying more for Foligno and Ennis this year than we are paying Scandella.

That may be true, however Scandella will be off the books after this year (if not sooner) whereas without the trade we would still have Foligno for another season at $2.88m and Ennis this year for $4.6m. It seems that while he may have been trying to get better right away, he was still looking at the future in terms of salary. For what it's worth, Minnesota is paying more for Foligno and Ennis this year than we are paying Scandella.
- adambuffalo

I didn't even consider the long term contracts he did unload. Good call.

I didn't even consider the long term contracts he did unload. Good call.
- buffalofan19

It seems 98% of this board does, don’t feel bad.

I didn't even consider the long term contracts he did unload. Good call.
- buffalofan19

The wild extended Foligno

The wild extended Foligno
- jcragcrumple

True, issue is we would have extended him too.

That may be true, however Scandella will be off the books after this year (if not sooner) whereas without the trade we would still have Foligno for another season at $2.88m and Ennis this year for $4.6m. It seems that while he may have been trying to get better right away, he was still looking at the future in terms of salary. For what it's worth, Minnesota is paying more for Foligno and Ennis this year than we are paying Scandella.
- adambuffalo

I would confirm everything you are saying here, because the Wild is in the last year of Ennis' buyout (which means the normal contract was shorter than this year) and as mentioned they did resign Foligno. So I am not sold on which side got a better deal, just maybe it was equally as bad, but their upside is the 3rd rounder and Foligno are still serviceable players.

Edit: per capfriendly, Ennis's deal would have ended this past season and would be a UFA right now (in that scenario).

I think his point is (I may be wrong) that the whole This is still Tim Murray’s mess narrative is not really true.

This is Botts team he has been building for now 3 years. If it sucks it is 100% on him.
- ImThatGuy

But it totally is still.

Tim Murray failed to hit on any draft picks that should be providing secondary scoring, goaltending or playing middle-bottom pairing D min for this team.

The 14-16 drafts for him were complete disasters

Nylander
2014 second round
Trading 4 2015 picks

Unfortunately Botterill has to fill those voids by moving for guys like Montour (should have been drafted by Murray) Jokiharju, Miller etc

It’s jusr hard to make 10 of those moves in 1-2 offseason.

I’ll guarantee that JB has better returns on his post 1st round picks

Unfortunately, this season will be more about the past and future than the present.

Fans will be asked to forgive another non-playoff season and focus on the 50 years of Sabres hockey this city has enjoyed/endured.

Meanwhile the young kids will get more seasoning and the clock will run down on many of the bad contracts handicapping this team.

2020/21 will hold more promise of a playoff appearance, and 2021/22 will be Botterill's make or break season.

I would confirm everything you are saying here, because the Wild is in the last year of Ennis' buyout (which means the normal contract was shorter than this year) and as mentioned they did resign Foligno. So I am not sold on which side got a better deal, just maybe it was equally as bad, but their upside is the 3rd rounder and Foligno are still serviceable players.

Edit: per capfriendly, Ennis's deal would have ended this past season and would be a UFA right now (in that scenario).
- Lilroot9

I think it was a wash. Ennis might have been bought out by us, either way the cap hit would've counted up until now. Foligno had basically the same stat line as Angry Larry, so not sure I'm worried about that. Pommer was the most impactful of the bunch.

If he sold the owners on a 4 year plan, not to mention finally getting the coach he wanted in the first place, he's got a job going into 2020.

And that's fine by me.

Long term success isn't built in two offseasons (yes, year one was evaluation).
- Powerslave

i will agree but we need to see forward progress this season.. if we are picking bottom 10 again i think they really need to think about what he is doing and it is working