You really don't think the staff has suggested to him to shoot more?
- ClaudeFather

Well, is Jake freakin uncoachable? Is Jake ignoring the advice? You tell me. Maybe Jake isn’t the player we all think he is.

Adam Oates, Ron Francis, Peter Forsberg, Pavel Datsyuk, Joe Thornton, Claude Giroux. These are all pass first guys who have managed at least one 30 plus goal season within their careers.

If you can think of a more comparable player to Jake Voracek, I would love to hear some names.

If you can't see that TK is much more of a shoot first guy when compared to Jake idk what to tell you, TK also has a much better shot. He's 21 with two 20 goal campaigns under his belt.
- ClaudeFather

I don’t know how else I can paint a more clear picture...

Well, is Jake freakin uncoachable? Is Jake ignoring the advice? You tell me. Maybe Jake isn’t the player we all think he is.

Adam Oates, Ron Francis, Peter Forsberg, Pavel Datsyuk, Joe Thornton, Claude Giroux. These are all pass first guys who have managed at least one 30 plus goal season within their careers.

If you can think of a more comparable player to Jake Voracek, I would love to hear some names.
- SuperSchennBros

SHOOOOT

SHOOOOT
- ClaudeFather

I don’t know what to tell you, man. The earth isn’t going to open up and swollen Jake whole if he just shoots a little more. His career high is goals is 23, in my opinion that’s very low for a player of his caliber.

I don’t know what to tell you, man. The earth isn’t going to open up and swollen Jake whole if he just shoots a little more. His career high is goals is 23, in my opinion that’s very low for a player of his caliber.
- SuperSchennBros

Haha i really hope he does, but i just don't see it. He's played the same spot for what 5-6 years, coaches have for sure told him to shoot more and it hasn't happened. I don't see it starting in 2019/20.

You really don't think the staff has suggested to him to shoot more?
- ClaudeFather

Perhaps. But, there is an entirely new coaching staff taking over. It's reasonable to assume they will be asking players to make adjustments.

Haha i really hope he does, but i just don't see it. He's played the same spot for what 5-6 years, coaches have for sure told him to shoot more and it hasn't happened. I don't see it starting in 2019/20.
- ClaudeFather

I thinks it's a really fun talking point and would love to get Bill's opinion on it.

Has Jake been asked to shoot more? Does the staff believe some of the recent PP struggles can be attributed to the lack of a shooting threat from Jake?

I'm not one of those "SHOOOTTT IITTT" guys, but the threat of a shot helps keep defenders honest.

I thinks it's a really fun talking point and would love to get Bill's opinion on it.

Has Jake been asked to shoot more? Does the staff believe some of the recent PP struggles can be attributed to the lack of a shooting threat from Jake?

I'm not one of those "SHOOOTTT IITTT" guys, but the threat of a shot helps keep defenders honest.
- BenderRodriguez

As pointed out by many, Ghost was covered pretty well last season. Ghost was unable to get shots through or would miss the net. In Jake’s case, why cover a guy who is gonna throw the puck away anyway...

As pointed out by many, Ghost was covered pretty well last season. Ghost was unable to get shots through or would miss the net. In Jake’s case, why cover a guy who is gonna throw the puck away anyway...
- SuperSchennBros

I know this. The discussion is about Jake shooting more to help open the lanes for Ghost and others.

By the eye test it felt like Jake did shoot more on the PP

Perhaps. But, there is an entirely new coaching staff taking over. It's reasonable to assume they will be asking players to make adjustments.
- BenderRodriguez

how many head coaches now has he had in philly?

I don’t know what to tell you, man. The earth isn’t going to open up and swollen Jake whole if he just shoots a little more. His career high is goals is 23, in my opinion that’s very low for a player of his caliber.
- SuperSchennBros

I didnt back read so I dont know what's going on but I think Jake lead the team in shots on goals one year so it's not like he doesnt shoot. I just dont think his shot is very good/he takes low percentage shots

Edit: in 2017-18 he lead the team in shots by 1 over Coots but had a much worse shooting percentage obviously. In 16-17 he lead the team by a wide margin

how many head coaches now has he had in philly?
- daryl stanley

Enough that if he wasn't doing what he was asked he could've been removed from the PP for someone who was going to do it. I'm not suggesting that's what should happen. The PP has been very good for many years.

However, there is a new GM and coaching staff. It's reasonable to assume players will be asked to do different things to help increase production.

Enough that if he wasn't doing what he was asked he could've been removed from the PP for someone who was going to do it. I'm not suggesting that's what should happen. The PP has been very good for many years.

However, there is a new GM and coaching staff. It's reasonable to assume players will be asked to do different things to help increase production.
- BenderRodriguez

was it reasonable to assume the prior coaches also asked them to do different things?

A few years ago, long-time NHL scout gave the best description of Voracek's shot that I've ever heard, "Highly skilled, big and strong playmaker and passer but he's a below-average shooter. He doesn't shoot the puck, he shovels it." Voracek is good at scoring on the rush/ breakaways and has a good backhander but he isn't a major threat elsewhere to finish off chances.

That said, he's scored 20+ goals in six of the last seven seasons. He'll always be a much better setup winger than finisher, but as long as he gets his 20 goals and the neighborhood of 50+ assists, he's effective.

was it reasonable to assume the prior coaches also asked them to do different things?
- daryl stanley

Was it?

A few years ago, long-time NHL scout gave the best description of Voracek's shot that I've ever heard, "Highly skilled, big and strong playmaker and passer but he's a below-average shooter. He doesn't shoot the puck, he shovels it." Voracek is good at scoring on the rush/ breakaways and has a good backhander but he isn't a major threat elsewhere to finish off chances.

That said, he's scored 20+ goals in six of the last seven seasons. He'll always be a much better setup winger than finisher, but as long as he gets his 20 goals and the neighborhood of 50+ assists, he's effective.
- bmeltzer

Thanks, Bill. In your opinion, if Jake shot the puck more on the PP would it be beneficial?

A few years ago, long-time NHL scout gave the best description of Voracek's shot that I've ever heard, "Highly skilled, big and strong playmaker and passer but he's a below-average shooter. He doesn't shoot the puck, he shovels it." Voracek is good at scoring on the rush/ breakaways and has a good backhander but he isn't a major threat elsewhere to finish off chances.

That said, he's scored 20+ goals in six of the last seven seasons. He'll always be a much better setup winger than finisher, but as long as he gets his 20 goals and the neighborhood of 50+ assists, he's effective.
- bmeltzer

he is someone i trade a year early than a year late.

Was it?
- BenderRodriguez

No all his former coaches subscribed to the same playbook...

Thanks, Bill. In your opinion, if Jake shot the puck more on the PP would it be beneficial?
- BenderRodriguez

If he's shooting to get pucks on net for rebounds (and a few where he gets a bonus and it goes in), perhaps. I think, pretty much, what you see is what you get in terms of his shooting ability. He'll never be a sniper even if he shoots more. He'll still get most of his goals by taking the puck to the net, in scrambles in front, and a few open backhanders from the hash marks.

If he's shooting to get pucks on net and rebounds, perhaps. I think, pretty much, what you see is what you get in terms of his shooting ability. He'll never be a sniper even if he shoots more. He'll still get most of his goals by taking the puck to the net, in scrambles in front, and a few open backhanders from the hash marks.
- bmeltzer

Appreciate the insight. I'm more asking in regards to opening lanes on the PP. It seems teams can over play G and Ghost because Jake may not appear to be a significant shooting threat.

I don't expect him to become a better shooter, more take advantage of what's given to him, which may allow him better passing lanes as teams have to challenge the shooting lane more.

No all his former coaches subscribed to the same playbook...
- daryl stanley

Do they?

A few years ago, long-time NHL scout gave the best description of Voracek's shot that I've ever heard, "Highly skilled, big and strong playmaker and passer but he's a below-average shooter. He doesn't shoot the puck, he shovels it." Voracek is good at scoring on the rush/ breakaways and has a good backhander but he isn't a major threat elsewhere to finish off chances.

That said, he's scored 20+ goals in six of the last seven seasons. He'll always be a much better setup winger than finisher, but as long as he gets his 20 goals and the neighborhood of 50+ assists, he's effective.
- bmeltzer

The shovel, so true...

I think he should drive the net more from the half wall, I never see him try to drive and then kick it back to Ghost, to allow Ghost a lane or to set up G. Jake is a good skater but he seems to stationary or very generic on what he does on The PP. That said it was a down year for the whole unit

I would depending on the pick. Its a Pascal's wager as far as I am concerned.
- MBFlyerfan

In my opinion, have to look at the big picture. First of all, not understanding why everyone is so quick to move Haag. He has his faults but he is still young. He is a cost controlled 3rd pair NHL defenseman who plays with an edge to his game. He is still young and there is plenty of room for refinement in his game. A steady player who can develop into a set him and forget him 3rd pair defenseman has value. Morin, we don't know but he has monster physical tools. I don't want to give up on that.

The pick better be pretty low, like a 5th or lower. I don't even think he's worth that alone.

Lastly, where is he going to play and with who? Is he good enough to play top 6 on this team? I'd say no. Do we want him playing with Patrick on a 3rd line? Patrick is struggling to break out on his own. So let's put another struggling young player with him who has a questionable work ethic and questionable hockey sense. If Puljujarvi doesn't take significant steps forward offensively, with his game lacking anything else, can you see Vigneualt giving him ice time?

I understand taking a chance on a player, but where is the fit? We have younger prospects that will need a spot that according to reports, aren't far away. I don't see the fit let alone that I think he's got one and half feet out the NHL door on his way to Europe.

The shovel, so true...

I think he should drive the net more from the half wall, I never see him try to drive and then kick it back to Ghost, to allow Ghost a lane or to set up G. Jake is a good skater but he seems to stationary or very generic on what he does on The PP. That said it was a down year for the whole unit
- wcorvette

Totally agree with this. If he drives the net a little more frequently it could open more things up.