Roger - one fan argued Gardiner is as good as Trouba (and that Jets fan gave you reasons to make a case for it).

Third time around for you - Gardiner was leaf's #2 or 3 d, Trouba was Jets # 2or3 d and therefore comparable value to their respective teams.

There are question marks on the blueline of both leafs and Jets, of the two teams the Jets have more answers from depth to fill in the blanks left.
- 2.0

To be fair, the Leafs have a very strong left side (Reilly, Muzzin, Dermott) with Barrie on the right, and Liljigren and Sandin coming up.
We have a 34 year old Byfuglien, Morrissey, a series of “?”s, and Niku coming up.

Don’t usually give Brian Lawton much attention (other than the answer to who was the worst first overall pick ever) but on NHL network he said something very true about Laine.

He said Laine can score 50 goals asleep and is without question one the very best pure goal scorers in the league. It solves absolutely nothing to blame laine, his linemates or the coach in his struggles!! Stop pointing fingers and just solve the problem.

he's more brett hull than ov/hall.

his shot makes up for a lot of short-comings.
- Tumbleweed

At 5M, yes you are right. But those glaring short-coming become a major issue when the guy is making north of 10M AAV. If you are paying that kind of money for a guy, he better be an all-situation player that you trust anywhere on the ice. I think people way over-estimate Laine's value. I really don't know why Lee's contract isn't a comparable.

Past 3 seasons Laine has 110 goals.
Past 3 seasons Lee has 102 goals.

Both lack primary assist production, but Laine has much more talented players dedicated to feeding him the biscuit. I think anything long term should be in the 7.5M AAV or under, otherwise Chevy can take a 2 year bridge and be done with that drama.

At 5M, yes you are right. But those glaring short-coming become a major issue when the guy is making north of 10M AAV. If you are paying that kind of money for a guy, he better be an all-situation player that you trust anywhere on the ice. I think people way over-estimate Laine's value. I really don't know why Lee's contract isn't a comparable.

Past 3 seasons Laine has 110 goals.
Past 3 seasons Lee has 102 goals.

Both lack primary assist production, but Laine has much more talented players dedicated to feeding him the biscuit. I think anything long term should be in the 7.5M AAV or under, otherwise Chevy can take a 2 year bridge and be done with that drama.
- bikeguy99

Laine has much more talented players feeding him the puck??? So you have little as a better Center than taveras and barzal?

Laine is 21 Lee is what? 31. That is why their is a huge difference

Laine has much more talented players feeding him the puck??? So you have little as a better Center than taveras and barzal?

Laine is 21 Lee is what? 31. That is why their is a huge difference
- Ross77

Lee is 29, they were drafted 7 years apart. You are correct there. But why is there a "HUGE" difference. Just 8 goals over 3 years of production seperating them is pretty narrow. Many would argue that Lee is light-years ahead of Laine in how he plays without the puck, and leadership too boot. Wheeler and Scheifs aren't great playmakers? If you ignore the PP goals from the top of the Circle, Laine is a 2M dollar player at best. In an ideal world, a western rival offer sheets Laine, and the Jets are left with 4 first rounders and plenty of cap to ink Gardiner this season, and target a bigger fish next offseason. There is a reason why Chevy isn't writing him a cheque.

Lee is 29, they were drafted 7 years apart. You are correct there. But why is there a "HUGE" difference. Just 8 goals over 3 years of production seperating them is pretty narrow. Many would argue that Lee is light-years ahead of Laine in how he plays without the puck, and leadership too boot. Wheeler and Scheifs aren't great playmakers? If you ignore the PP goals from the top of the Circle, Laine is a 2M dollar player at best. In an ideal world, a western rival offer sheets Laine, and the Jets are left with 4 first rounders and plenty of cap to ink Gardiner this season, and target a bigger fish next offseason. There is a reason why Chevy isn't writing him a cheque.
- bikeguy99

Holy sh*t, you’re so far out to lunch, you’re in a different time zone. On a different continent.
Laine plays with Little at 5v5 AKA an overwhelming majority of the time. Lee has had Barzal and Tavares

You can just go ahead and admit you have a personal disliking for Laine, and stop making wrong arguments

Holy sh*t, you’re so far out to lunch, you’re in a different time zone. On a different continent.
Laine plays with Little at 5v5 AKA an overwhelming majority of the time. Lee has had Barzal and Tavares

You can just go ahead and admit you have a personal disliking for Laine, and stop making wrong arguments
- Rexypoo

Not far out, just hits a sore spot

Jeff Marek is a smart dude.

Jeff Marek is a smart dude.
- bennythehat

Jeff Marek apparently didn’t see the Jets after January. You know, when Wheeler and Scheifele quit, and Hendricks was airlifted in to save the room

Jeff Marek apparently didn’t see the Jets after January. You know, when Wheeler and Scheifele quit, and Hendricks was airlifted in to save the room
- Rexypoo

And the reason for all of the above was ?? I think it rhymes with “hat trick “.

Jeff Marek apparently didn’t see the Jets after January. You know, when Wheeler and Scheifele quit, and Hendricks was airlifted in to save the room
- Rexypoo

Considering that Scheifele was #2 in minutes played by that time by forwards it’s amazing he still had some gas left for the rest of the season. Rexypoo for some reason you claim to be a stats expert but fail to mention Scheifele and Wheelers icetimes. You are great at cherry picking stats that prove whatever point you are making.

We may soon find out what real value Brendan Lemieux has to other teams. He can be offer-sheeted at no cost for between $1 and 1.3 MM by teams that need some speed, grit and scoring punch on their 4th line. Rangers can't afford to match. If I were a team that needed more depth such as Montreal , Ottawa, Phoenix, etc it might be a good move for them despite Lemieux's personality shortcomings.

The hard cap will soon have it's effect on RFA contracts resulting in the return of the bridge deal.

(below is borrowed from Pengy at Spectorshockey)

I posted a quick hi-level before but just took another gander at CapFriendly. Setting aside the knowledge of LTIR; Cap friendly has 31 teams with 686 players signed at a total Cap just shy of $2.4B… 27 spots available, about $164M.

31 listed RAFas, I dropped the lowest likely to be signed/least important (Belpedio, Mainelenen, McKeweon, Comrie) and quickly tabbed the remaining 27 (to fill out full league compliment) at a Cap hit around what most have been pegging each at… the left over is only about $57M (or just shy of an average of $1.9M per team).

With short term injury call ups through the year… that will eat into that $57M… if each team just averages 50 game call-ups a year at league min… that leaves less than $1.5M buffer average per team.

Something has got to give

There is not enough cap space league wide to pay the RFA's/UFA's the recently re-established rates, and if they want to play in the NHL it will be on team friendly salaries and bridge contracts. Alternatively - established players may end up in Europe/AHL etc. for more than they will make in the NHL.

Jets just added Rene Borque for depth.

The hard cap will soon have it's effect on RFA contracts resulting in the return of the bridge deal.

(below is borrowed from Pengy at Spectorshockey)


There is not enough cap space league wide to pay the RFA's/UFA's the recently re-established rates, and if they want to play in the NHL it will be on team friendly salaries and bridge contracts. Alternatively - established players may end up in Europe/AHL etc. for more than they will make in the NHL.
- 2.0

his analysis doesn't make sense.

you can't ignore ltir.

also, seems like he pulled a james tanner in applying averages when you need to look at individual teams cap space.

his analysis doesn't make sense.

you can't ignore ltir.

also, seems like he pulled a james tanner in applying averages when you need to look at individual teams cap space.
- Tumbleweed

the big picture averages work in favour of the players getting paid more in this scenario as the team by team picture makes it worse.

ltir needs to be factored, however, the amount this frees up in the big picture is not significant and amounts to just a few players.

the big picture averages work in favour of the players getting paid more in this scenario as the team by team picture makes it worse.

ltir needs to be factored, however, the amount this frees up in the big picture is not significant and amounts to just a few players.
- 2.0

the leafs use of ltir alone will add about $13M or ~$400K to the $1.9M of supposed cap space/team.

which team with the big name free agents doesn't have cap space to sign them:

Rantanen
Marner
Point
Tkachkuk
Mcavoy
Laine
Boeser
Werenski
Connor
Provorov

Considering that Scheifele was #2 in minutes played by that time by forwards it’s amazing he still had some gas left for the rest of the season. Rexypoo for some reason you claim to be a stats expert but fail to mention Scheifele and Wheelers icetimes. You are great at cherry picking stats that prove whatever point you are making.
- TheUltimateJet

Oh, everyone and their dog was saying basically all season that Wheeler and Scheifele were being overplayed. Being exhausted is a valid reason for a decline in play.
That’s not what we saw out of them, with Scheifele being the most noticeable. The underlying numbers cratered, and neither one bothered on the back check for weeks at a time.

And the reason for all of the above was ?? I think it rhymes with “hat trick “.
- bennythehat

Crazy that such a strong group can be entirely torn apart in a week by a rather quiet player, whom is roughly 8th on the list of pissed off players to speak out

Oh, everyone and their dog was saying basically all season that Wheeler and Scheifele were being overplayed. Being exhausted is a valid reason for a decline in play.
That’s not what we saw out of them, with Scheifele being the most noticeable. The underlying numbers cratered, and neither one bothered on the back check for weeks at a time.
- Rexypoo

Could you please provide stats that backup this claim?

Considering that Scheifele was #2 in minutes played by that time by forwards it’s amazing he still had some gas left for the rest of the season. Rexypoo for some reason you claim to be a stats expert but fail to mention Scheifele and Wheelers icetimes. You are great at cherry picking stats that prove whatever point you are making.
- TheUltimateJet

Wheeler and Scheifele are not the problem - they are a major part of the solution.

They play hard, but hard to do game after game, and you hear some team-mate that doesn't play 100%, although he can score if puck is put dead on his stick, saying he wants (or so the rumor is) $10 mill a season. Said guy shouldn't get $1 more than Scheif or there may be mutiny. Bridge contract of one year and then see. If effort and production is there, then many more $$$.

My guess Patrik is traded or is a hold-out.

the leafs use of ltir alone will add about $13M or ~$400K to the $1.9M of supposed cap space/team.

which team with the big name free agents doesn't have cap space to sign them:

Rantanen
Marner
Point
Tkachkuk
Mcavoy
Laine
Boeser
Werenski
Connor
Provorov
- Tumbleweed

you are right, false alarm. I add the above RFA's to around 75m total. There are a few UFA's that will sign. I leaned too heavily on Pengy's 57m number and as you stated it is not reliable. I think maybe he intended that to be the amount of dollars available league wide for emergency call ups etc. But not immediately relevant.

you are right, false alarm. I add the above RFA's to around 75m total. There are a few UFA's that will sign. I leaned too heavily on Pengy's 57m number and as you stated it is not reliable. I think maybe he intended that to be the amount of dollars available league wide for emergency call ups etc. But not immediately relevant.
- 2.0

Did I read some place that Provorov wants $10M. Way over-priced don't you think after last year?
Werenski way better IMO.

Wheeler and Scheifele are not the problem - they are a major part of the solution.

They play hard, but hard to do game after game, and you hear some team-mate that doesn't play 100%, although he can score if puck is put dead on his stick, saying he wants (or so the rumor is) $10 mill a season. Said guy shouldn't get $1 more than Scheif or there may be mutiny. Bridge contract of one year and then see. If effort and production is there, then many more $$$.

My guess Patrik is traded or is a hold-out.
- grahamzky

Further to this point, Scheifele was 37th overall in total ice time at 1792:42, and Wheeler was 58th overall in total ice time at 1698:12 for all skaters. Laine was 165th overall at 1413:07. All three players played all 82 games.

Based on ice times between Scheifele and Laine, Scheifele essentially played 6.31 more games than Laine if he played the full 60 minutes of those games. Further noting that Scheifele and Wheeler are constantly playing against the other teams top lines. Laine, whether Rexypoo wants to admit or not plays against other teams #3 lines. In which case he should be torching his opponents, but for some reason has seen his 5v5 goal totals diminish in every year he's played in the league.

Just some food for thought....

Further to this point, Scheifele was 37th overall in total ice time at 1792:42, and Wheeler was 58th overall in total ice time at 1698:12 for all skaters. Laine was 165th overall at 1413:07. All three players played all 82 games.

Based on ice times between Scheifele and Laine, Scheifele essentially played 6.31 more games than Laine if he played the full 60 minutes of those games. Further noting that Scheifele and Wheeler are constantly playing against the other teams top lines. Laine, whether Rexypoo wants to admit or not plays against other teams #3 lines. In which case he should be torching his opponents, but for some reason has seen his 5v5 goal totals diminish in every year he's played in the league.

Just some food for thought....
- TheUltimateJet

quality of opposition balances itself out a little , at home he sees 3rd/4th line opposition, on the road he sees other matchups