Location: Whenever, wherever, ON Joined: 06.27.2013
Aug 19 @ 9:30 AM ET
I would have LOVED to see what Bobby Orr and Mike Bossy would have done with full careers.............would have been incredible to see. Bossy only played 10 seasons and had almost 600 goals, I think had he stayed healthy he would have had more than Gretzky - sensarmy_11
That's always a tough one. If you're arguing health vs. overall results - if Lemieux had been healthy, he also stood a great chance of breaking some of Gretzky's records.
But Bossy probably would have. Bossy retired at 30.
Looking at the era, over the next 10 years after Bossy retired (at 30), Garter (28) would score 373 goals, Cicarelli (27) would score 327 goals, Messier (28) would score 310 goals, and Kurri (27) would score 247 goals.
Location: I would never let my children play hockey. The risk of getting drafted by Edmonton is too high", ON Joined: 08.11.2011
Aug 19 @ 9:33 AM ET
That's always a tough one. If you're arguing health vs. overall results - if Lemieux had been healthy, he also stood a great chance of breaking some of Gretzky's records.
But Bossy probably would have. Bossy retired at 30.
Looking at the era, over the next 10 years after Bossy retired (at 30), Garter (28) would score 373 goals, Cicarelli (27) would score 327 goals, Messier (28) would score 310 goals, and Kurri (27) would score 247 goals.
Bossy was 321 goals short of Gretkzy's record. - Monkeypunk
It's tough to say but I do think Bossy would have been the record holder for most goals scored. Even if he played in the "trap era"
Location: Whenever, wherever, ON Joined: 06.27.2013
Aug 19 @ 9:49 AM ET
It's tough to say but I do think Bossy would have been the record holder for most goals scored. Even if he played in the "trap era" - PatC80
Yeah. I look at this way - Gartner was a good goal scorer. He had a good shot - and had a 14% shooting percentage over his career. He scored 50 once - in 1984/85 (he had a 15.1% shooting percentage that year - this was of course before such phrases as "regression to the mean" would exist so his performance was sustainable).
The League average shooting percentage in 84/85 was 12.7% (as opposed to 9.5% now - I choose to believe the larger variation was due to Palmateer no longer playing, and I am not going to look at numbers from 1977 to prove this, so we'll just assume I'm right).
Bossy had a great shot. He had a 21% shooting percentage over his career. He scored over 60 5 times and in 84/85, he had 58.
If Gartner would go on to score 370 over the next 10 years, it's hard for me to believe that Bossy wouldn't have score more - or at the very least the required 327 to hold the all time record.
Location: I would never let my children play hockey. The risk of getting drafted by Edmonton is too high", ON Joined: 08.11.2011
Aug 19 @ 9:55 AM ET
Yeah. I look at this way - Gartner was a good goal scorer. He had a good shot - and had a 14% shooting percentage over his career. He scored 50 once - in 1984/85 (he had a 15.1% shooting percentage that year - this was of course before such phrases as "regression to the mean" would exist so his performance was sustainable).
The League average shooting percentage in 84/85 was 12.7% (as opposed to 9.5% now - I choose to believe the larger variation was due to Palmateer no longer playing, and I am not going to look at numbers from 1977 to prove this, so we'll just assume I'm right).
Bossy had a great shot. He had a 21% shooting percentage over his career. He scored over 60 5 times and in 84/85, he had 58.
If Gartner would go on to score 370 over the next 10 years, it's hard for me to believe that Bossy wouldn't have score more - or at the very least the required 327 to hold the all time record. - Monkeypunk
You take that back, Palmateer was, and still is awesome.
Yeah. I look at this way - Gartner was a good goal scorer. He had a good shot - and had a 14% shooting percentage over his career. He scored 50 once - in 1984/85 (he had a 15.1% shooting percentage that year - this was of course before such phrases as "regression to the mean" would exist so his performance was sustainable).
The League average shooting percentage in 84/85 was 12.7% (as opposed to 9.5% now - I choose to believe the larger variation was due to Palmateer no longer playing, and I am not going to look at numbers from 1977 to prove this, so we'll just assume I'm right).
Bossy had a great shot. He had a 21% shooting percentage over his career. He scored over 60 5 times and in 84/85, he had 58.
If Gartner would go on to score 370 over the next 10 years, it's hard for me to believe that Bossy wouldn't have score more - or at the very least the required 327 to hold the all time record. - Monkeypunk
he's almost never mentioned with the "greats" of the game, but IMO he's the best pure goal scorer the league has ever seen
Location: Whenever, wherever, ON Joined: 06.27.2013
Aug 19 @ 10:01 AM ET
OV goings to break it. - AdamFrench
Do you really think so?
Personally, I don't. I didn't think he'd get 40+ and 50+ the last two years, though, so who knows! But he still needs 236 goals, and turns 34 next month.
Location: Isn't Cooley 5"11? You know who else is 5"11? Sydney Crosby. - Scabeh Joined: 04.06.2011
Aug 19 @ 10:04 AM ET
Do you really think so?
Personally, I don't. I didn't think he'd get 40+ and 50+ the last two years, though, so who knows! But he still needs 236 goals, and turns 34 next month. - Monkeypunk
If he plays to 40 and averages just 40 goals, which he's still putting up 50, so why the hell not, then he would overtake him. Guys never been hurt either. It's his passion (though that's never been his issue) and the money he'll want that might be the hurdle going forward.
Location: Isn't Cooley 5"11? You know who else is 5"11? Sydney Crosby. - Scabeh Joined: 04.06.2011
Aug 19 @ 10:07 AM ET
I kinda hope he doesn't - PatC80
I dunno. No offense to Wayne, but he's the best set up man of all time, not the best goal scorer. What OV has done with goalies being 1000x better than they were in the 80's is nuts. He'll at least be the PP goal leader when all is said and done regardless if he catches Wayne.
Location: I would never let my children play hockey. The risk of getting drafted by Edmonton is too high", ON Joined: 08.11.2011
Aug 19 @ 10:09 AM ET
I dunno. No offense to Wayne, but he's the best set up man of all time, not the best goal scorer. What OV has done with goalies being 1000x better than they were in the 80's is nuts. He'll at least be the PP goal leader when all is said and done regardless if he catches Wayne. - AdamFrench
I don't see Ovi scoring 40 when he's 40, although I have been wrong before.. (Re; MonkeyPuck's comment on Mike Palmateer)
Location: We’re Too Old, Boston Joined: 04.03.2013
Aug 19 @ 10:16 AM ET
He's 33 and leading the league with 50+ goals. He's fueled by cocaine, booze, hookers and roids. Who is to say he won't be potting one timers at 55? - AdamFrench
Location: Whenever, wherever, ON Joined: 06.27.2013
Aug 19 @ 10:19 AM ET
If he plays to 40 and averages just 40 goals, which he's still putting up 50, so why the hell not, then he would overtake him. Guys never been hurt either. It's his passion (though that's never been his issue) and the money he'll want that might be the hurdle going forward. - AdamFrench
Reading forward - I sort of agree with Pat - I also hope he doesn't. I will fully accept the Ov is one of the best goal scorers of all time. But I don't like him all that much. I think my biggest problem with him is just that there's a special set of rules that apply to him and it bugs the crap out of me. Any other player charging and leaving their feet consistently to deliver hits would be suspended constantly.
I go with the standard athletic curve. It gets harder and harder and harder to stay in elite game shape after 30. You have to physically work harder and harder every year just to get to the level you used to coast to be at, and then you need to work hard just to maintain it. I think he actually noticed this 2 years ago when he turned his game back around.
Ov is exceptionally strong already, so that's an advantage, and as long as he has the competitive fire, I think he can maintain 40 for 3 more years.
As I said, I doubt he does it just based on standard decline, but I wouldn't write him off.
Location: "Yeah, Garth is a tool"- Garf, ON Joined: 06.12.2017
Aug 19 @ 10:38 AM ET
I would have LOVED to see what Bobby Orr and Mike Bossy would have done with full careers.............would have been incredible to see. Bossy only played 10 seasons and had almost 600 goals, I think had he stayed healthy he would have had more than Gretzky - sensarmy_11
I'm not old enough to have watched those guys but it would have been great.
For me, I would have loved it if Lindros could've been healthy.
Location: We’re Too Old, Boston Joined: 04.03.2013
Aug 19 @ 10:40 AM ET
DARKNESS! HOW ARE YA CHARLIE MURPHY?! - AdamFrench
MY BROTHER, YOU KNOW, HE'S A LOT MORE COMPASSIONATE THAN I AM. HE'S LOOKING AND THE LIMO'S DRIVIN' OFF, AND HE SAID, "WOW, MAN, RICK REALLY NEEDS HELP" AND I WAS LIKE, "YO, WE JUST GAVE HIM SOME HELP. BUST HIS (frank)IN' ASS AND poop. I BET YOU HE WON'T COME OVER HERE AND DISRESPECT LIKE THAT AGAIN. WRONG.WRONG.WE'RE TALKIN' ABOUT RICK JAMES, MAN.
Location: I would never let my children play hockey. The risk of getting drafted by Edmonton is too high", ON Joined: 08.11.2011
Aug 19 @ 11:15 AM ET
He's 33 and leading the league with 50+ goals. He's fueled by cocaine, booze, hookers and roids. Who is to say he won't be potting one timers at 55? - AdamFrench
Also, has a 1 yr old son, he'll soon focus more on his childrens