Jeff. Jillson.
- TheSabresTaco

Fair.

But it's also fair to wonder whether Botterill would have made both the Miller and Montour trades if he knew Jokiharju would be a Sabre.

Was that a plan, or was it the trade version of BPA falling into his lap

On a micro level, each one of those trades/picks makes sense, but on a macro level, holy poop there are a lot of defensemen and not many forwards.

As for the players graduating from last year

1 Regier pick

2 GMTM

3 JB including a FA signing

The roster, the system, the coach, all of it is JB's now. It's time to see if this vision makes sense

Fair.

But it's also fair to wonder whether Botterill would have made both the Miller and Montour trades if he knew Jokiharju would be a Sabre.

Was that a plan, or was it the trade version of BPA falling into his lap

On a micro level, each one of those trades/picks makes sense, but on a macro level, holy poop there are a lot of defensemen and not many forwards.

As for the players graduating from last year

1 Regier pick

2 GMTM

3 JB including a FA signing

The roster, the system, the coach, all of it is JB's now. It's time to see if this vision makes sense
- jcragcrumple

He owns everything, but it's silly to admit he'd prefer all the rostered players here. There's value he needs to evaluate for every player. What's the depth at the position, if we trade so and so, what do we get back, is it worth paying the PRICE for so and so player.

If we the fans see a huge log jam, so does Jason. And it's clear what he's doing, and he's not done with it yet. The left side still needs a little help.

Next year is a huge opportunity to truly shape with players he wants for a while. And I bet 50% of the one year players are released, at least

BPA is always a fair strategy, so I won't fault him for that.

But we do have 24 NHL defensemen, 3 of whom he spent assets to acquire. And our farm system is predominantly loaded with defensemen.

He owns that organizational log jam.

The structure of the organization is due to Botterill. He gets the credit if things go well, and he gets the blame if it doesn't. Continually pointing to GMTM after 3 drafts is played out. It's done.
- jcragcrumple

Because it absolutely still applies

Again, 2 of his last 3 first rounders are full time NHL’ers

Our 2016 1st rounder who hasn’t been considered “high end” for two years was moved out for a better prospect

You don’t think missing on a 2016 top 10 pick, trading 2 2015 firsts for guys who are no longer here have an effect on this current roster?

Thompson has to earn thsat spot. otherwise I would say bump Okposo down and insert Sheary. That could be an energy 3rd line that might actually pot a few.
- seedy

Yes, those are the three players I am playing around with as well. I have a feeling Sheary will be traded though.

Because it absolutely still applies

Again, 2 of his last 3 first rounders are full time NHL’ers

Our 2016 1st rounder who hasn’t been considered “high end” for two years was moved out for a better prospect

You don’t think missing on a 2016 top 10 pick, trading 2 2015 firsts for guys who are no longer here have an effect on this current roster?
- sbroads24

That's so absurd to me

Everything people like is assigned to Botterill

The blame for the rest is split between Pegula/Housley and the GM who was fired 3 drafts ago

The guy is somehow bulletproof and he's proven nothing to this fan base yet

What do you think the SOGOTP timeline is for Asplund? He’s not a kid anymore
- lulags

I’d imagine he’s the 1st call up this year at forward (or Tage)

They’ll probably wanna get a pretty good look at him to see if they think he can take Larsson’s place, or if we need to bring him back again

That's so absurd to me

Everything people like is assigned to Botterill

The blame for the rest is split between Pegula/Housley and the GM who was fired 3 drafts ago

The guy is somehow bulletproof and he's proven nothing to this fan base yet
- jcragcrumple

He owns not trading Risto

He owns Housley

He owns signing some bad 4th liners.

Pretending that the ineptitude of Murray doesn’t exist anymore is insane.

We said it when he was fired, he set this organization back years

He owns not trading Risto

He owns Housley

He owns signing some bad 4th liners.

Pretending that the ineptitude of Murray doesn’t exist anymore is insane.

We said it when he was fired, he set this organization back years
- sbroads24

It's been years

He owns not trading Risto

He owns Housley

He owns signing some bad 4th liners.

Pretending that the ineptitude of Murray doesn’t exist anymore is insane.

We said it when he was fired, he set this organization back years
- sbroads24

He owns the sale of the Selke and Smythe Winner for one bag of expired magic beans, a whiff of stale vapor, and Tage Thompson.

PS - We're going to be good.

PPS - UNLIKE THIS:

You can get by with average wingers if you are strong down the middle and have a few horses on the back end. It’s proven every year.

Name one team stacked with elite wingers that didn’t have a #1 C or at least two very good defenseman that did anything noteworthy ?
- Swedish_Jesus

Dude... you’re ridiculous
Name one team that was stacked with elite Centers that didn’t have a #1Winger

The bottom line is that you need a bunch of good players
It’s not like all Cup winners are built the same
I can’t believe you are still going on about this

Do u need good centers? Of course
Jack is a stud
Mitts & Cozens project to be at least very good 2Cs, if not better
And Asplund & Davidsson look to be good bottom6 guys

U act like we just have a bunch of scrubs

It's been years
- jcragcrumple

3 drafts

2 are NHL regulars. One is 18.

So the criticism is he doesn’t have any post first round high end forward prospects in the past 3 years? Like..... most of the league?

3 drafts

2 are NHL regulars. One is 18.

So the criticism is he doesn’t have any post first round high end forward prospects in the past 3 years? Like..... most of the league?
- sbroads24

If you can't appreciate the hypocrisy of criticizing TM for squandering assets when he had 16 draft picks in 2 years and JB has picked 18 times in 3 years then Idk.

So far the results are the same.

I pray to baby jesus in a tuxedo t shirt that it changes this year

Dude... you’re ridiculous
Name one team that was stacked with elite Centers that didn’t have a #1Winger

The bottom line is that you need a bunch of good players
It’s not like all Cup winners are built the same
I can’t believe you are still going on about this

Do u need good centers? Of course
Jack is a stud
Mitts & Cozens project to be at least very good 2Cs, if not better
And Asplund & Davidsson look to be good bottom6 guys

U act like we just have a bunch of scrubs
- jdfitz77

Dude...this is TOTALLY on point. Big fan btw

Honestly, the fact that the entire 4th line is back shows how bad our prospect pool is. When your best chance at stealing a fourth line spot is CJ Smith your farm team sucks.

Botts can claim he cares about prospects, but bottom line is he traded in his time here:

1. 3rd rnd Pick for Beaulieu
2. Pick to Vegas for expansion draft protection
3. 3rd for 4th swap in Scandella trade
4. Pick for Wilson
5. Pick for Sheary
6. 3 picks and a prospect for Skinner
7. Guhle and a first round pick for Montour
8. 2 picks for Colin Miller
9. Pick for Vesey

What did he do to restock?
1. 2 picks for Evander Kane
2. Tage Thompson and a pick for ROR
3. 7th round pick for Fedun
4. 6th rnd pick back for Beaulieu

I've ignored his draft picks for draft picks trades and his prospect swaps as those are picks/prospects in and out.

I'm not saying most of those weren't even okay to good moves. But the bottom line is there is this misconception that Botts is restocking the farm team after Murray depleted the draft pick stache. It's just not true. Botts has been a seller of picks and young players.

Where I do fault him is his refusal to restock by trading failing veterans for picks. Risto should have been traded for a pick and a prospect. Larsson is probably worth a low level pick to some teams. RoR was basically traded for three crappy roster players, I would have much rather seen AHL or even OHL players coming back.

In short, the team has two legitimate prospects in 6k and Goalafsson. Cozens isn't really anything to their credit, they just drafted him a couple months ago, and only then because they sucked so hard they got a top ten pick. I'm not giving them credit for his development, not until he makes either the Americans or the Sabres.

No one wants to admit the truth, but the team was bottom half of the league and there is bottom half of the league help coming. We are in trouble.

If you can't appreciate the hypocrisy of criticizing TM for squandering assets when he had 16 draft picks in 2 years and JB has picked 18 times in 3 years then Idk.

So far the results are the same.

I pray to baby jesus in a tuxedo t shirt that it changes this year
- jcragcrumple

Pretending these are remotely the same is ludicrous

Which 3rd rounder did Botts trade to talk to a college UFA for 3 months and have him walk?

Which 3rd rounder did Botts trade for Klesla to refuse to play here?

Which two second rounders did he trade along with a viable, young 3-5 D man did he trade to get a prospect that was a 4th round pick a year ago?

Which first did he trade for a goalie?

Who’s a better player to trade a second round pick for ? Colin Miller or Josh Gorges?

It’s bananas to compare them

Honestly, the fact that the entire 4th line is back shows how bad our prospect pool is. When your best chance at stealing a fourth line spot is CJ Smith your farm team sucks.

Botts can claim he cares about prospects, but bottom line is he traded in his time here:

1. 3rd rnd Pick for Beaulieu
2. Pick to Vegas for expansion draft protection
3. 3rd for 4th swap in Scandella trade
4. Pick for Wilson
5. Pick for Sheary
6. 3 picks and a prospect for Skinner
7. Guhle and a first round pick for Montour
8. 2 picks for Colin Miller
9. Pick for Vesey

What did he do to restock?
1. 2 picks for Evander Kane
2. Tage Thompson and a pick for ROR
3. 7th round pick for Fedun
4. 6th rnd pick back for Beaulieu

I've ignored his draft picks for draft picks trades and his prospect swaps as those are picks/prospects in and out.

I'm not saying most of those weren't even okay to good moves. But the bottom line is there is this misconception that Botts is restocking the farm team after Murray depleted the draft pick stache. It's just not true. Botts has been a seller of picks and young players.

Where I do fault him is his refusal to restock by trading failing veterans for picks. Risto should have been traded for a pick and a prospect. Larsson is probably worth a low level pick to some teams. RoR was basically traded for three crappy roster players, I would have much rather seen AHL or even OHL players coming back.

In short, the team has two legitimate prospects in 6k and Goalafsson. Cozens isn't really anything to their credit, they just drafted him a couple months ago, and only then because they sucked so hard they got a top ten pick. I'm not giving them credit for his development, not until he makes either the Americans or the Sabres.

No one wants to admit the truth, but the team was bottom half of the league and there is bottom half of the league help coming. We are in trouble.
- matty12345

I don’t get this one bit

Honestly, the fact that the entire 4th line is back shows how bad our prospect pool is. When your best chance at stealing a fourth line spot is CJ Smith your farm team sucks.

Botts can claim he cares about prospects, but bottom line is he traded in his time here:

1. 3rd rnd Pick for Beaulieu
2. Pick to Vegas for expansion draft protection
3. 3rd for 4th swap in Scandella trade
4. Pick for Wilson
5. Pick for Sheary
6. 3 picks and a prospect for Skinner
7. Guhle and a first round pick for Montour
8. 2 picks for Colin Miller
9. Pick for Vesey

What did he do to restock?
1. 2 picks for Evander Kane
2. Tage Thompson and a pick for ROR
3. 7th round pick for Fedun
4. 6th rnd pick back for Beaulieu

I've ignored his draft picks for draft picks trades and his prospect swaps as those are picks/prospects in and out.

I'm not saying most of those weren't even okay to good moves. But the bottom line is there is this misconception that Botts is restocking the farm team after Murray depleted the draft pick stache. It's just not true. Botts has been a seller of picks and young players.

Where I do fault him is his refusal to restock by trading failing veterans for picks. Risto should have been traded for a pick and a prospect. Larsson is probably worth a low level pick to some teams. RoR was basically traded for three crappy roster players, I would have much rather seen AHL or even OHL players coming back.

In short, the team has two legitimate prospects in 6k and Goalafsson. Cozens isn't really anything to their credit, they just drafted him a couple months ago, and only then because they sucked so hard they got a top ten pick. I'm not giving them credit for his development, not until he makes either the Americans or the Sabres.

No one wants to admit the truth, but the team was bottom half of the league and there is bottom half of the league help coming. We are in trouble.
- matty12345

Not saying I agree or disagree with your sentiment but your reasoning is flawed. You can’t say the fact that our 4th line isn’t pushed because he traded away picks and also take away from his 1sts. In the typical maturation of these players beyond the 1st round they take 3 or so years to even start to push for a roster spot. Therefore his picks should still be long shots to make the nhl this fall. If he still has none next season then I will agree. But I think there is some flaws in your reasoning on his picks not pushing for a roster spot.

Pretending these are remotely the same is ludicrous

Which 3rd rounder did Botts trade to talk to a college UFA for 3 months and have him walk?

Which 3rd rounder did Botts trade for Klesla to refuse to play here?

Which two second rounders did he trade along with a viable, young 3-5 D man did he trade to get a prospect that was a 4th round pick a year ago?

Which first did he trade for a goalie?

Who’s a better player to trade a second round pick for ? Colin Miller or Josh Gorges?

It’s bananas to compare them
- sbroads24

There are some pretty brutal ones in there though. 3rd for Beaulieu, only got a 6th back. Trading a pick to Vegas to protect a bad player in the expansion draft, and then they take a better player anyway.

He also took so long to trade Guhle that he went from the sabres best prospect to a throw in on a trade that cost us a first round pick.

I'm just saying. Murray got RoR for a bag of crap. Botts returned the favour. The story isn't as one sided as sabres fans make it to be.

Pretending these are remotely the same is ludicrous

Which 3rd rounder did Botts trade to talk to a college UFA for 3 months and have him walk?

Which 3rd rounder did Botts trade for Klesla to refuse to play here?

Which two second rounders did he trade along with a viable, young 3-5 D man did he trade to get a prospect that was a 4th round pick a year ago?

Which first did he trade for a goalie?

Who’s a better player to trade a second round pick for ? Colin Miller or Josh Gorges?

It’s bananas to compare them
- sbroads24

I agree GMTM was a terrible GM

That doesn't mean that JB has proven to be a good GM

He could prove it this year. He needs to prove it imo

Not saying I agree or disagree with your sentiment but your reasoning is flawed. You can’t say the fact that our 4th line isn’t pushed because he traded away picks and also take away from his 1sts. In the typical maturation of these players beyond the 1st round they take 3 or so years to even start to push for a roster spot. Therefore his picks should still be long shots to make the nhl this fall. If he still has none next season then I will agree. But I think there is some flaws in your reasoning on his picks not pushing for a roster spot.
- IndianaSabresFan

Right, which is my point. With that timeline, all those picks from ‘14-‘16 should be the depth of this roster.

Right now it might be Olofsson

Maybe Borgen and Asplund soon.


That ain’t on Botterill

I agree GMTM was a terrible GM

That doesn't mean that JB has proven to be a good GM

He could prove it this year. He needs to prove it imo
- jcragcrumple

I think he needs to start flipping some of the d depth for forwards. I don’t care if he trades Montour or joker as long as it gets us top 9 or better prospects ready to hit the nhl

I agree GMTM was a terrible GM

That doesn't mean that JB has proven to be a good GM

He could prove it this year. He needs to prove it imo
- jcragcrumple

Agreed it needs to pan out for him to be good. No one should be satisfied and f we totally suck again. No reason we should be bottom 10

My issue is the goalposts are constantly moving.

Not saying I agree or disagree with your sentiment but your reasoning is flawed. You can’t say the fact that our 4th line isn’t pushed because he traded away picks and also take away from his 1sts. In the typical maturation of these players beyond the 1st round they take 3 or so years to even start to push for a roster spot. Therefore his picks should still be long shots to make the nhl this fall. If he still has none next season then I will agree. But I think there is some flaws in your reasoning on his picks not pushing for a roster spot.
- IndianaSabresFan

I'm actually making two different points.

1. The farm system isn't good, otherwise we would have AHL players battling to take roster spots, and we really don't.
2. The farm system can't be blamed on GMTM alone, as Botts has also traded away more picks and prospects than he has brought in. Both GM's have drained the organization of prospects and picks.

I'm actually making two different points.

1. The farm system isn't good, otherwise we would have AHL players battling to take roster spots, and we really don't.
2. The farm system can't be blamed on GMTM alone, as Botts has also traded away more picks and prospects than he has brought in. Both GM's have drained the organization of prospects and picks.
- matty12345

Ok... but gmtm not only traded picks but also was really bad at drafting. We don’t know about JB but it looks at least somewhat better. Just think if we wouldn’t have missed on Nylander. That could probably fix a top 6 winger or put mitts at3c where he should be.

I'm actually making two different points.

1. The farm system isn't good, otherwise we would have AHL players battling to take roster spots, and we really don't.
2. The farm system can't be blamed on GMTM alone, as Botts has also traded away more picks and prospects than he has brought in. Both GM's have drained the organization of prospects and picks.
- matty12345

Ok, but if you even go back to year 2 of Botts, those players are 19 years old, and his first rounder was Dahlin.

How many 18-19 year old post-first rounders fight for NHL roster spots?

It’s just a weird criticism