But if you want to see a hint as to why this team has been bad for so long, go find me an impact player that came to this org outside the 1st round since 2010.
- TheSabresTaco

This is an excellent point, and certainly something I forget about from time to time. Who was the last player that the Sabres really got lucky on or if you want to phrase it another way, that they hit on in later rounds of the draft that became a stud? Do Roy and Pomminville fit the bill? Campbell?

There is blame enough to go around, and I don't think anyone thinks the current GM deserves most of it.

The problem is this blog gives the impression from the way it is written and the title that the sabres have a good prospect pool. They don't, they're below average. That would be okay if the NHL roster was playoff worthy, but they probably aren't.

It is a bit like if I posted a blog entitled "Sabres GM curing diabetes", and then someone laid out the stats that diabetes is on the rise and not being cured, and then I responded with, "Well Botts didn't create diabetes, quit blaming him."

Maybe it isn't his fault we are the way we are. But so far all he has done is make fewer draft picks than his average allotted amount. Maybe you love his picks, but we won't know if they are going to make it or not. I could take the central scouting rankings, have made zero trades, and just picked the best available player, and I would have done more to 'restock' the farm system than he has.

Sabres fans mistake being delusional for being positive. The team has been very horrible for decade, were the worst team in the league in the second half of last year, and all that was done to address it was replace pominville's 15-20 goals with Vesey, added a third liner in MoJo, and a #3-#4 defenseman in Miller. That's not going to take us from worst to the playoffs, so we are stuck hoping the kids get us there. Except the kids coming are ranked bottom half, so really, my only hope is in the guys already here making some monumental jump.

That's not building, its wishful thinking. If people think that's negative or cancer, maybe they should realize that going to games has been a negative and cancerous experience, and the team doesn't deserve more positive fans, because they have given us nothing to feel hopeful about.

Rumor has it ..... last nights crazy thunder storm in buffalo. Fixed the Sabres fax machine! Chris drurys contract that was jammed / never got faxed out. Finally went through!

E69 [url]

There is blame enough to go around, and I don't think anyone thinks the current GM deserves most of it.

The problem is this blog gives the impression from the way it is written and the title that the sabres have a good prospect pool. They don't, they're below average. That would be okay if the NHL roster was playoff worthy, but they probably aren't.

It is a bit like if I posted a blog entitled "Sabres GM curing diabetes", and then someone laid out the stats that diabetes is on the rise and not being cured, and then I responded with, "Well Botts didn't create diabetes, quit blaming him."

Maybe it isn't his fault we are the way we are. But so far all he has done is make fewer draft picks than his average allotted amount. Maybe you love his picks, but we won't know if they are going to make it or not. I could take the central scouting rankings, have made zero trades, and just picked the best available player, and I would have done more to 'restock' the farm system than he has.

Sabres fans mistake being delusional for being positive. The team has been very horrible for decade, were the worst team in the league in the second half of last year, and all that was done to address it was replace pominville's 15-20 goals with Vesey, added a third liner in MoJo, and a #3-#4 defenseman in Miller. That's not going to take us from worst to the playoffs, so we are stuck hoping the kids get us there. Except the kids coming are ranked bottom half, so really, my only hope is in the guys already here making some monumental jump.

That's not building, its wishful thinking. If people think that's negative or cancer, maybe they should realize that going to games has been a negative and cancerous experience, and the team doesn't deserve more positive fans, because they have given us nothing to feel hopeful about.
- matty12345

So what you are saying is that Eichel, Dahlin, Reinhart, Mitts, Olofsson, Cozens have already peaked ? We might not have the best prospect pool (due to Dahlin and Mitts already seeing NHL action) but if you are looking at every team’s roster in terms of U23 talent where would we rank ? I’d say we’d be in the discussion for #1 with Toronto and Edmonton (McDavid factor).

So what you are saying is that Eichel, Dahlin, Reinhart, Mitts, Olofsson, Cozens have already peaked ? We might not have the best prospect pool (due to Dahlin and Mitts already seeing NHL action) but if you are looking at every team’s roster in terms of U23 talent where would we rank ? I’d say we’d be in the discussion for #1 with Toronto and Edmonton (McDavid factor).
- Swedish_Jesus

^^ This

To me, prospects are about the future. U23 is about now and the immediate future. I don't know if we would rank in the top 3, because I don't follow too many other teams, but Top 10 is definite.

There is blame enough to go around, and I don't think anyone thinks the current GM deserves most of it.

The problem is this blog gives the impression from the way it is written and the title that the sabres have a good prospect pool. They don't, they're below average. That would be okay if the NHL roster was playoff worthy, but they probably aren't.

It is a bit like if I posted a blog entitled "Sabres GM curing diabetes", and then someone laid out the stats that diabetes is on the rise and not being cured, and then I responded with, "Well Botts didn't create diabetes, quit blaming him."

Maybe it isn't his fault we are the way we are. But so far all he has done is make fewer draft picks than his average allotted amount. Maybe you love his picks, but we won't know if they are going to make it or not. I could take the central scouting rankings, have made zero trades, and just picked the best available player, and I would have done more to 'restock' the farm system than he has.

Sabres fans mistake being delusional for being positive. The team has been very horrible for decade, were the worst team in the league in the second half of last year, and all that was done to address it was replace pominville's 15-20 goals with Vesey, added a third liner in MoJo, and a #3-#4 defenseman in Miller. That's not going to take us from worst to the playoffs, so we are stuck hoping the kids get us there. Except the kids coming are ranked bottom half, so really, my only hope is in the guys already here making some monumental jump.

That's not building, its wishful thinking. If people think that's negative or cancer, maybe they should realize that going to games has been a negative and cancerous experience, and the team doesn't deserve more positive fans, because they have given us nothing to feel hopeful about.
- matty12345

The problem isn't with the blog...The blog has a positive outlook, as well it should. 19th in a league of 31 (is this NHL Network again?) isn't even "bad". Now lets consider adding Mitts, Dahlin and Joker to that prospect pool who are very young NHLers and the fact that our best players are 23-24yrs old and younger. Not such a bleak outlook anymore is it? Not saying we're a playoff team this year but we also weren't the worst team in the league last year either, that's misleading. There are 82 games in a season.

The curing diabetes analogy is again, not even close. Seriously? For him to cure diabetes would mean we are all ready for him to have a Cup team next year. Don't insult our intelligence or your own.

Vesey is not a replacement for Pomminville. He's a young player with upside who's playing to get paid. He is a much bigger player who has younger legs, plays a harder game. Great value for a 3rd. Amazing value if he gets 20+ and resigns. Mojo is more than a 3rd line player, a perennial 50+ point guy with good analytics and a ton of playoff experience. A full year of Montour. Miller has been a 40+ point guy, not sure why he fell out of favor in Vegas, but again, good value.

So how have we not been restocking? Having Rochester full of 18-21 year olds is not a recipe for success. We have added young proven talent to our NHL club and a good mix of leadership and prospects to Rochester. Seems we have drafted well, we'll find out. The reason for less picks is as I just said, we used some picks and got great value for some young NHL talent with potential. That's better than a crap shoot 3-5 round picks at this stage of a rebuild since we have most of our top end talent. Seriously man, your entire post was purposely skewed to make a misleading point.

This is an excellent point, and certainly something I forget about from time to time. Who was the last player that the Sabres really got lucky on or if you want to phrase it another way, that they hit on in later rounds of the draft that became a stud? Do Roy and Pomminville fit the bill? Campbell?
- Bufsaints8

They fit the bill, and are the last players we've proven to hit on, as far as top 6 impact is concerned. Olofsson has an opportunity to be the first guy since 2002 to be an impact forward outside the first round. That's embarrassing.

There is blame enough to go around, and I don't think anyone thinks the current GM deserves most of it.

The problem is this blog gives the impression from the way it is written and the title that the sabres have a good prospect pool. They don't, they're below average. That would be okay if the NHL roster was playoff worthy, but they probably aren't.

It is a bit like if I posted a blog entitled "Sabres GM curing diabetes", and then someone laid out the stats that diabetes is on the rise and not being cured, and then I responded with, "Well Botts didn't create diabetes, quit blaming him."

Maybe it isn't his fault we are the way we are. But so far all he has done is make fewer draft picks than his average allotted amount. Maybe you love his picks, but we won't know if they are going to make it or not. I could take the central scouting rankings, have made zero trades, and just picked the best available player, and I would have done more to 'restock' the farm system than he has.

Sabres fans mistake being delusional for being positive. The team has been very horrible for decade, were the worst team in the league in the second half of last year, and all that was done to address it was replace pominville's 15-20 goals with Vesey, added a third liner in MoJo, and a #3-#4 defenseman in Miller. That's not going to take us from worst to the playoffs, so we are stuck hoping the kids get us there. Except the kids coming are ranked bottom half, so really, my only hope is in the guys already here making some monumental jump.

That's not building, its wishful thinking. If people think that's negative or cancer, maybe they should realize that going to games has been a negative and cancerous experience, and the team doesn't deserve more positive fans, because they have given us nothing to feel hopeful about.
- matty12345

I'm going to stop you right here. We were number 1 last year with a bunch of graduates. And that includes Pilut and Jokiharju.

Number 1. Number 19. Who gives a poop. Who. (frank)ing. Cares. The best prospect system doesn't get you a (frank)ing banner.

So what you are saying is that Eichel, Dahlin, Reinhart, Mitts, Olofsson, Cozens have already peaked ? We might not have the best prospect pool (due to Dahlin and Mitts already seeing NHL action) but if you are looking at every team’s roster in terms of U23 talent where would we rank ? I’d say we’d be in the discussion for #1 with Toronto and Edmonton (McDavid factor).
- Swedish_Jesus

Now this is a ranking that matters (more)

Colin Miller was a cap casualty that wasn't kept because he lacks what I like to call playoff defense.

A bunch of Mattias Samuelssons. It's why I believe he was benched. He's a fantastic puck carrier, he's good in the other zone, he's great against bottom 6 competition and can probably handle middle 6 almost as well.

But he allows entries too against top 6.

So what it came down to is, he was highest salaried defender that was expendable.

So how have we not been restocking? Having Rochester full of 18-21 year olds is not a recipe for success. We have added young proven talent to our NHL club and a good mix of leadership and prospects to Rochester. Seems we have drafted well, we'll find out. The reason for less picks is as I just said, we used some picks and got great value for some young NHL talent with potential. That's better than a crap shoot 3-5 round picks at this stage of a rebuild since we have most of our top end talent. Seriously man, your entire post was purposely skewed to make a misleading point.
- Bufsaints8

Been trying to get this point across for days.

Drafting is all well and good. I don't believe a team should go all in and sell all their players for 100s of picks, nor do I believe the other side of the spectrum, use all picks on players. Botts has a healthy balance of both, and I for one support the way he's doing things, considering the age of this team and how close we are to competing. If you want to suck forever, keep all the picks and don't use them to trade for 'now' assets. If you want to be the 2011 Sabres, trade all of the picks.

Darcy Regier prospect full-time graduates outside the 1st round, since 2010:

Jake McCabe, Linus Ullmark, JT Compher - 3 in 4 years.
Cal Petersen will eventually make this 4.


Tim Murray prospect full-time graduates outside the 1st round, since 2014:

Brendan Lemieux, Brendan Guhle - 2 in 3 years.
Victor Olofsson, Rasmus Asplund and Will Borgen will eventually make this 5.

It's too early to judge Jason Botterill's draft selections, as your 2nd round and later players typically take at the very least 2 years, if not 3-5.

Players tracking well are Davidsson, UPL, Laaksonen, Samuelsson and Pekar. Commenting on the 2019 draft class is pure speculation.

But if you want to see a hint as to why this team has been bad for so long, go find me an impact player that came to this org outside the 1st round since 2010.
- TheSabresTaco

Seriously. It’s this. And had been this for years. All of this

BPA is always a fair strategy, so I won't fault him for that.

But we do have 24 NHL defensemen, 3 of whom he spent assets to acquire. And our farm system is predominantly loaded with defensemen.

He owns that organizational log jam.

The structure of the organization is due to Botterill. He gets the credit if things go well, and he gets the blame if it doesn't. Continually pointing to GMTM after 3 drafts is played out. It's done.
- jcragcrumple

So are the Okposo and Skinner contracts.

Been trying to get this point across for days.

Drafting is all well and good. I don't believe a team should go all in and sell all their players for 100s of picks, nor do I believe the other side of the spectrum, use all picks on players. Botts has a healthy balance of both, and I for one support the way he's doing things, considering the age of this team and how close we are to competing. If you want to suck forever, keep all the picks and don't use them to trade for 'now' assets. If you want to be the 2011 Sabres, trade all of the picks.
- TheSabresTaco

It's still happening

Botterill:

11 picks traded, 7 acquired

http://www.nhltradetracke...by_GM/Jason_Botterill/290

GMTM:

11 traded, 9 acquired


http://www.nhltradetracke...st_by_GM/Tim_Murray/274/2

I don't really care about it, as long as the results are there at the NHL level.

That's what this year is about for me.

I just want people to acknowledge that JB has in fact "rushed the rebuild" to some extent. The narrative that he has patience just isn't true imo.

Let's see if his moves pay off

Those trade numbers don't reflect anything regarding trading up or out at the draft

There is blame enough to go around, and I don't think anyone thinks the current GM deserves most of it.

The problem is this blog gives the impression from the way it is written and the title that the sabres have a good prospect pool. They don't, they're below average. That would be okay if the NHL roster was playoff worthy, but they probably aren't.

It is a bit like if I posted a blog entitled "Sabres GM curing diabetes", and then someone laid out the stats that diabetes is on the rise and not being cured, and then I responded with, "Well Botts didn't create diabetes, quit blaming him."

Maybe it isn't his fault we are the way we are. But so far all he has done is make fewer draft picks than his average allotted amount. Maybe you love his picks, but we won't know if they are going to make it or not. I could take the central scouting rankings, have made zero trades, and just picked the best available player, and I would have done more to 'restock' the farm system than he has.

Sabres fans mistake being delusional for being positive. The team has been very horrible for decade, were the worst team in the league in the second half of last year, and all that was done to address it was replace pominville's 15-20 goals with Vesey, added a third liner in MoJo, and a #3-#4 defenseman in Miller. That's not going to take us from worst to the playoffs, so we are stuck hoping the kids get us there. Except the kids coming are ranked bottom half, so really, my only hope is in the guys already here making some monumental jump.

That's not building, its wishful thinking. If people think that's negative or cancer, maybe they should realize that going to games has been a negative and cancerous experience, and the team doesn't deserve more positive fans, because they have given us nothing to feel hopeful about.
- matty12345

The way I see it is there are more parallels between JB and TM than people would like to admit

And until the results on the ice indicate success, I think it's fair to be skeptical.

Questioning Botterill does not make me anti-Botterill

I will be first in line to offer kudos if/when we are good this year. Show, don't tell

It's still happening

Botterill:

11 picks traded, 7 acquired

http://www.nhltradetracke...by_GM/Jason_Botterill/290

GMTM:

11 traded, 9 acquired


http://www.nhltradetracke...st_by_GM/Tim_Murray/274/2

I don't really care about it, as long as the results are there at the NHL level.

That's what this year is about for me.

I just want people to acknowledge that JB has in fact "rushed the rebuild" to some extent. The narrative that he has patience just isn't true imo.

Let's see if his moves pay off

Those trade numbers don't reflect anything regarding trading up or out at the draft
- jcragcrumple

This post a thousand times.

Everyone is going off feelings. The facts are Botts is trading away picks and prospects for roster players.

I'm not saying he needs to be fired. I'm saying this year is critical. If we are really bad this year, I think he is in a lot of trouble.

It's still happening

Botterill:

11 picks traded, 7 acquired

http://www.nhltradetracke...by_GM/Jason_Botterill/290

GMTM:

11 traded, 9 acquired


http://www.nhltradetracke...st_by_GM/Tim_Murray/274/2

I don't really care about it, as long as the results are there at the NHL level.

That's what this year is about for me.

I just want people to acknowledge that JB has in fact "rushed the rebuild" to some extent. The narrative that he has patience just isn't true imo.

Let's see if his moves pay off

Those trade numbers don't reflect anything regarding trading up or out at the draft
- jcragcrumple

The whole thing can be summed up like this:

GMTM traded 2 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick in the same damn draft

Botts traded 3rd rounders and 1 2nd rounder (to get Jeff Skinner)

Time to move the hell on here please

The whole thing can be summed up like this"

GMTM traded 2 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick in the same damn draft

Botts traded 3rd rounders and 1 2nd rounder (to get Jeff Skinner)

Time to move the hell on here please
- Stripes77

Botterill traded 1 first and two 2nds this year

The 1st and 2nd were in the same draft

There are parallels

That doesn't mean the results have to be the same. But the parallels are there if you want to look

Botterill traded 1 first and two 2nds this year

There are parallels

That doesn't mean the results have to be the same. But the parallels are there if you want to look
- jcragcrumple

Not the same damn draft though

Botterill is spreading them out throughout the years

Murray did it with 1 freaking draft

Why was the cupboard empty?

Crappy drafting and trading away multiple high picks in the same draft has a lot to do with it

Cozens was on the ice at the Harbor Center today

This is an excellent point, and certainly something I forget about from time to time. Who was the last player that the Sabres really got lucky on or if you want to phrase it another way, that they hit on in later rounds of the draft that became a stud? Do Roy and Pomminville fit the bill? Campbell?
- Bufsaints8

campbell, goose, miller.. i guess you could say pommer and roy as well.. and look thats back when we last had a good team.. go figure

Not the same damn draft though

Botterill is spreading them out throughout the years

Murray did it with 1 freaking draft

Why was the cupboard empty?

Crappy drafting and trading away multiple high picks in the same draft has a lot to do with it
- Stripes77

Yeah, it was a first and a second instead of a first and two seconds.

Hell, I wanted him to trade the other first because I am so sick of sucking. I probably would have traded the Cozens pick if someone were dumb enough to let me near an NHL team.

I just think the time to blame Murray is over, and the time to expect results from Botterill is here.

Botterill traded 1 first and two 2nds this year

The 1st and 2nd were in the same draft

There are parallels

That doesn't mean the results have to be the same. But the parallels are there if you want to look
- jcragcrumple

It should be noted that it was a 1st the HE acquired.

Yeah, it was a first and a second instead of a first and two seconds.

Hell, I wanted him to trade the other first because I am so sick of sucking. I probably would have traded the Cozens pick if someone were dumb enough to let me near an NHL team.

I just think the time to blame Murray is over, and the time to expect results from Botterill is here.
- jcragcrumple

You mean a 1st and 2nd instead of 2 1sts and a 2nd?

It should be noted that it was a 1st the HE acquired.
- Bufsaints8

and not the one Darcy did...