I mean the facts are right there. All of us here know exactly what picks he's used. And most are more than ok with it, considering the age of this team as a whole and how close we should be to actually being a hockey team.

He absolutely owns Rochester. All I'm saying is that Rochester is not 'complete', if you will. He can sign all the free agents he wants for them and make them perrenial playoff contenders. But he still needs more successful drafts to really balance out the pipeline so that we can all look at any position and say, great, we have a guy we can call up if any one of the Sabres get injured.

I agree with the last paragraph. The skepticism is 100% warranted.
- TheSabresTaco

I was trying to give him credit there. He's been to the playoffs twice. That's a good enough level of success for me at this point. So good job on that, JB

Colin Miller was a cap casualty that wasn't kept because he lacks what I like to call playoff defense.

A bunch of Mattias Samuelssons. It's why I believe he was benched. He's a fantastic puck carrier, he's good in the other zone, he's great against bottom 6 competition and can probably handle middle 6 almost as well.

But he allows entries too against top 6.

So what it came down to is, he was highest salaried defender that was expendable.
- TheSabresTaco

Take Miller's name out and insert, just on the right side
Risto
Montour
Jokiharju
And it is the same story.
Good puck movers, better offensively than defensively.

IMO that is why there will be a place for Samuelsson and Borgen coming up.
Miller isn't the issue, Risto at $2m more for a worse profile defensively is.

Every team in the league has young players that will get better. The club was ranked 26th and the farm system is 18th or 19th. All those guys fall into one category or the other.

You think Austin Matthews isn't going to improve? Kerfoot? Nylander? How exactly am I catching the leafs? That's the goal still right? To be better than all the other teams?

Forget the leafs. Florida and Montreal both were better than us, and both have top half ranked farm systems. And Montreal's pick from the Dahlin draft? He is playing too How do I catch Montreal if my club is worse, I have no cap space, and my prospects are worse?
- matty12345

The two SC teams this past season finished behind Tampa and Toronto.
They fared pretty good I would say.

I completely agree. He has positioned himself to have a TON of cap next year and a good number of positions available to fill with new players, emerging players or resigns. Maybe this was part of the plan all along, maybe not, that's between he and ownership. If we are GAWD awful this year his job should seriously come into question. But again, based on stats, analytics and tempered expectations of young players getting better (NOT FEELINGS? as someone suggested) it doesn't seem likely.
- Bufsaints8

Sorry, but I simply cannot support this logic for this season. Once the deadwood contracts are done, then surely.
But that is next season, not this upcoming season.

It could be argued the organization was such a mess these prospects didn’t have a chance.

Wasn’t TM known for quality drafting?
- washedup20

One prospect wouldn't even sign in Buffalo yet Murray drafted him anyway?

Rochester has never been an issue in the past

Sorry, but I simply cannot support this logic for this season. Once the deadwood contracts are done, then surely.
But that is next season, not this upcoming season.
- IonSabres

If the team is dragged down because of those players (Okposo, Scandella, etc) then I agree with what you said

But if guys like Vesey, Miller and the goaltending don't hold up and they are just as bad as the last 70% of last season then Botterill's seat will be burning up and rightfully so

Bill Guerin is the new GM in Minnesota


Maybe Botts can get Zucker out of his old running mate?

Edit: Hatty

Colin white signed for 4.75. interesting.

He trades more picks and prospects than people want to acknowledge. That's different than what you're saying

The narrative on Botterill is that he's patiently building. I've posted some numbers that I think show he's been fairly aggressive in dealing futures for currents. I have no problem with that, provided it works.

It's time for the rubber to meet the road. The results haven't been there. That's point-blank true. He does own the prospect pool after 3 drafts imo. He gets credit for the Amerks 100%

Is he done this off season? Has he done enough in the right areas, or did he over invest in some areas and neglect others? These are fair questions and arguments that will only be evidenced when the puck drops.

"Tim Murray sucked" and "no more excuses."

That's where I'm at
- jcragcrumple

The issue isn't the number of picks made, rather the quality of the prospect picked
It is early to determine the quality of Bott's picks, but according to the reviews to date on the prospects, I like what I see coming through the pipeline.
We have had the benefit of time to see that many of Murray's picks have flamed out with the likes of Nylander, Baptiste, Bailey and on and on.

The issue isn't the number of picks made, rather the quality of the prospect picked
It is early to determine the quality of Bott's picks, but according to the reviews to date on the prospects, I like what I see coming through the pipeline.
We have had the benefit of time to see that many of Murray's picks have flamed out with the likes of Nylander, Baptiste, Bailey and on and on.
- IonSabres

I'd probably be willing to make a wager on Nylander getting 15 NHL goals this year. He is going to get a top six chance he never got here, and with that shot I can see him doing 20 actually.

He may not be a total bust yet. I'm glad the trade happened, but I can imagine in december Nylander having 8 goals and Joker not having played a game yet for the sabres. This trade may look bad before it looks good.

I'd probably be willing to make a wager on Nylander getting 15 NHL goals this year. He is going to get a top six chance he never got here, and with that shot I can see him doing 20 actually.

He may not be a total bust yet. I'm glad the trade happened, but I can imagine in december Nylander having 8 goals and Joker not having played a game yet for the sabres. This trade may look bad before it looks good.
- matty12345

So he's good enough for the Hawks but not for the Sabres.

Interesting.

Really interesting take.

The issue isn't the number of picks made, rather the quality of the prospect picked
It is early to determine the quality of Bott's picks, but according to the reviews to date on the prospects, I like what I see coming through the pipeline.
We have had the benefit of time to see that many of Murray's picks have flamed out with the likes of Nylander, Baptiste, Bailey and on and on.
- IonSabres

There's plenty of murray flameouts, but that pair belongs to Darcy

So he's good enough for the Hawks but not for the Sabres.

Interesting.

Really interesting take.
- TheSabresTaco

The turnaround they had with Dylan Strome isn't something that should be dismissed.

The turnaround they had with Dylan Strome isn't something that should be dismissed.
- buffalofan19

Nope. You're right. Player to player, though, means nothing. The return for Strome also reflected his value.

Nope. You're right. Player to player, though, means nothing.
- TheSabresTaco

Not that I totally agree with his take, but if anyone can turn Nylander around, it's Chicago.

As far as Jokiharju is concerned, there is a logjam back there, so he could be the odd man out for a while.

False.

Also, if you look at the systems from the past 3 years, you'll notice that today's system is exponentially more balanced than it was say, 2-3 years ago. And more.

He used a failing 1st round prospect for an actually good 1st round player.

He used 1 pick for a top 4 RFA puck mover.

He manipulated the cap for this team for a bundle of money to fall off after this season. Even after a bunch of re-signings (without any forseeable trades), he's looking at approx 10M of cap space.

He didn't go bonkers and fill our long term cap with a bunch of middle 6ers.
- TheSabresTaco

For me, not doing this, is what I consider to be a patient approach. Also, not trading 5 assets to acquire your favorite player.

So he's good enough for the Hawks but not for the Sabres.

Interesting.

Really interesting take.
- TheSabresTaco

Just like Ror was GE for the blues but not for the sabres.

If Nylander gets top 6 minutes in Chicago his supporting cast is in a better position to make him the player he projects to be.

Joker is in Buffalo this year, Nelson is assuming 3/4 GM and 1/4 player status next season

Sorry, but I simply cannot support this logic for this season. Once the deadwood contracts are done, then surely.
But that is next season, not this upcoming season.
- IonSabres

If we finish 31st, his job shouldn't be on the line? It better be at this point.

I am pretty confident we won't be 31st though, maybe 21st or slightly better, so it's really a moot point.

One prospect wouldn't even sign in Buffalo yet Murray drafted him anyway?

Rochester has never been an issue in the past
- Stripes77

Drunks and Oversight amiright?

Drunks and Oversight amiright?
- washedup20

I really think Murray was just in over his head.

Some guys are meant to be scouts and some guys have the ability to raise themselves to GMs.

I think Murray was a pretty decent assistant GM but he doesn't have all the tools to be a good GM.

I really think Murray was just in over his head.

Some guys are meant to be scouts and some guys have the ability to raise themselves to GMs.

I think Murray was a pretty decent assistant GM but he doesn't have all the tools to be a good GM.
- Stripes77

Well said

Sorry, but I simply cannot support this logic for this season. Once the deadwood contracts are done, then surely.
But that is next season, not this upcoming season.
- IonSabres

This argument holds no water imo

Botterill acquired or re-signed 9 of the 10. He didn't have to do that, and he didn't have to keep them this year. It's an excuse created by the fans for Botterill.

We cant compete until he cleans up the mess he made?

That's a terrible excuse imo. He chose this roster, and he chose those players.

This argument holds no water imo

Botterill acquired or re-signed 9 of the 10. He didn't have to do that, and he didn't have to keep them this year. It's an excuse created by the fans for Botterill.

We cant compete until he cleans up the mess he made?

That's a terrible excuse imo. He chose this roster, and he chose those players.
- jcragcrumple

Agreed

With the players he has brought in this offseason alone should push all those bad contracts down the lineup anyway.

Those contracts and players might keep us from being a playoff team but as long as they're not a bottom feeder his job should be safe and the team is going in the right direction.

This argument holds no water imo

Botterill acquired or re-signed 9 of the 10. He didn't have to do that, and he didn't have to keep them this year. It's an excuse created by the fans for Botterill.

We cant compete until he cleans up the mess he made?

That's a terrible excuse imo. He chose this roster, and he chose those players.
- jcragcrumple

Do you think it’s his way of installing padding between Rochester and Buffalo.
It seems like he doesn’t like to interfere with short term call ups.

Just like Ror was GE for the blues but not for the sabres.

If Nylander gets top 6 minutes in Chicago his supporting cast is in a better position to make him the player he projects to be.

Joker is in Buffalo this year, Nelson is assuming 3/4 GM and 1/4 player status next season
- washedup20

Incomparable situations.

Nylander had all the room in the world to take a spot in the top 6, if he deserved it.
There was rarely a large block of time where he actually deserved to be here. Everything was flashes. If he irons out his consistency, then he'll succeed. And only then.

Trading God was not a matter of being good enough for the Sabres. He was one of our best players. There were background things going on that not a single one of us truly know about.