So, you are obviously an advocate for ignoring promotions to the big team when considering the pipeline? You must be, but...
No, no you aren't.
You are better than this.
Your posts lately seem to be focused on bhilding more clicks on Michael's blog with these types of posts
- IonSabres

I was a bit perplexed by Pach's tone when the substance of the matter is that we're in the bottom half of the league in terms of prospects.

But have at it. Back to your regularly scheduled program

10 out of the 12 teams below us were in the playoffs. Generally when you're ranked around our position it's due to success
- jcragcrumple

Most of those teams have traded first rounders over the past three seasons

Which in terms of prospect rankings is exactly the same as having your picks already being NHL regulars and no longer prospects

Seriously look at every team on that list. They’re top 2-3 prospects are all 2017-19 first rounders

We’re missing 2 of the 3 because they are NHL’ers.

Most of those teams have traded first rounders over the past three seasons

Which in terms of prospect rankings is exactly the same as having your picks already being NHL regulars and no longer prospects

Seriously look at every team on that list. They’re top 2-3 prospects are all 2017-19 first rounders

We’re missing 2 of the 3 because they are NHL’ers.
- sbroads24

another thing that might factor is that two of our top prospects (nylander and Guhle) were traded for players I assume are no longer considered prospects due to time playing in the nhl. Is that bad asset management. That is yet to be seen

So where would we rank if we added in dahlin, mitts, nylander and Guhle. I bet that jumps is up that ranking quite a bit.

another thing that might factor is that two of our top prospects (nylander and Guhle) were traded for players I assume are no longer considered prospects due to time playing in the nhl. Is that bad asset management. That is yet to be seen

So where would we rank if we added in dahlin, mitts, nylander and Guhle. I bet that jumps is up that ranking quite a bit.
- IndianaSabresFan

It’s just another misleading narrative anti Botts people are perpetuating.

Detroit is ranked 10th- their top rated prospect is Zadina who was picked in the top 10 in Dahlin’s draft.

We lose the lottery and pick Zadina, and Detroit wins it and and picks Dahlin, you’d bet our rankings would reverse.

Would anyone wanna trade places with Detroit?

Florida is ranked 14th


2 of their top 4 prospects are 17 and 18 first rounders, not yet NHL’ers

Florida is ranked 14th


2 of their top 4 prospects are 17 and 18 first rounders, not yet NHL’ers
- sbroads24

I do question some of his moves. A few times he has packaged picks to move up and then pick someone off the board. I believe Laaksonen was one of them. But hell that pick may end up as a home run. Or it may just be a depth d man at best.

It’s just another misleading narrative anti Botts people are perpetuating.

Detroit is ranked 10th- their top rated prospect is Zadina who was picked in the top 10 in Dahlin’s draft.

We lose the lottery and pick Zadina, and Detroit wins it and and picks Dahlin, you’d bet our rankings would reverse.

Would anyone wanna trade places with Detroit?
- sbroads24

We just picked top 10. Shouldn't that have given us a bump?

And come on man, you don't honestly think I'm "anti Botts," do you? I want him to succeed and I want the Sabres to succeed. Until that happens, it's fair to question his track record

I do question some of his moves. A few times he has packaged picks to move up and then pick someone off the board. I believe Laaksonen was one of them. But hell that pick may end up as a home run. Or it may just be a depth d man at best.
- IndianaSabresFan

I’m not a fan of moving up either.

And let’s be frank, he’s absolutely made mistakes

But as someone who can say I was one of the first on the Murray is going to destroy this team train, I knew this wasn’t anywhere close to an easy fix

We just picked top 10. Shouldn't that have given us a bump?

And come on man, you don't honestly think I'm "anti Botts," do you? I want him to succeed and I want the Sabres to succeed. Until that happens, it's fair to question his track record
- jcragcrumple

We’re middle of the pack, without having 2 of our last 3 years 1st rounders included, who were good enough to make the league.

Include them and were still #1, as we were literally last season

We just picked top 10. Shouldn't that have given us a bump?

And come on man, you don't honestly think I'm "anti Botts," do you? I want him to succeed and I want the Sabres to succeed. Until that happens, it's fair to question his track record
- jcragcrumple

Apart from the ROR trade (at this point), Botts’ moves have been very calculated and his drafts (at this point) look very strong.

Sure we can complain about how he moved mid round picks for guys like Sheary, Beaulieu, and now Vesey but those were/are low risk moves that were an attempt to improve the team short term. Those moves ultimately don’t cripple the franchise long term and set us back 4 years like trying to rush a rebuild like Murray did.

But you’re not considering that Botts wasn’t doing a full rebuild like GMTM was

Botts wasn’t gonna wait 5ish years to see if guys he drafted in rounds 2-4 could be of any help

Are u suggesting he should’ve done that?
If so, that’s wasting years of Jack & Dahlin, etc

Botts had to get us competitive asap
AND
build for the future
- jdfitz77

HoLy SaaaaMokeSsSsssss 😂😂😂😂, amazing return and complete lay out of exactly what is going on.

That question is 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 dude SERIOUSLY solid post. Mad props.

There are some pretty brutal ones in there though. 3rd for Beaulieu, only got a 6th back. Trading a pick to Vegas to protect a bad player in the expansion draft, and then they take a better player anyway.

He also took so long to trade Guhle that he went from the sabres best prospect to a throw in on a trade that cost us a first round pick.

I'm just saying. Murray got RoR for a bag of crap. Botts returned the favour. The story isn't as one sided as sabres fans make it to be.
- matty12345

This is cancer. This whole discussion is cancer.

I think the ranking of 19th should be a wakeup call for those who preached patience in the name of pipeline building.

Is the team good yet? Because although supposedly he's been pipeline building, those outside of this thread disagree.

So the moves he made better make us good
- jcragcrumple

Look how far the #1 prospect system from last year got us

This is cancer. This whole discussion is cancer.
- TheSabresTaco

I didn’t know that Compher, Zadorov, and a pick that very well could’ve been Sebastian Aho is a bag of crap.


The two #1 centers in the cup final, Bergeron and ROR, were both 2nd round picks.

Just imagine if Murray hit on one of the dozen he chose to just trade away

It’s just another misleading narrative anti Botts people are perpetuating.

Detroit is ranked 10th- their top rated prospect is Zadina who was picked in the top 10 in Dahlin’s draft.

We lose the lottery and pick Zadina, and Detroit wins it and and picks Dahlin, you’d bet our rankings would reverse.

Would anyone wanna trade places with Detroit?
- sbroads24

I didn't have it in me to spend the time on this argument. So, thank you for saying all the same poop I would have said.

but.....Cole Muffler

I didn’t know that Compher, Zadorov, and a pick that very well could’ve been Sebastian Aho is a bag of crap.


The two #1 centers in the cup final, Bergeron and ROR, were both 2nd round picks.

Just imagine if Murray hit on one of the dozen he chose to just trade away
- sbroads24

Murray would have blown that pick too.

I still can’t believe the Bruins took Zboril, Debrusk, Sensyshen (who had a third round grade) in 3 successive picks and then the following three picks were Barzal, Connor, Chabot with Konecny and Boeser going a few picks after that.

Apart from the ROR trade (at this point), Botts’ moves have been very calculated and his drafts (at this point) look very strong.

Sure we can complain about how he moved mid round picks for guys like Sheary, Beaulieu, and now Vesey but those were/are low risk moves that were an attempt to improve the team short term. Those moves ultimately don’t cripple the franchise long term and set us back 4 years like trying to rush a rebuild like Murray did.
- Swedish_Jesus

I agree with this completely. This whole discussion about being ranked 19th in prospects, the cupboards not being being restocked and Botts "throwing away" or "wasting" draft picks is not just a bit ridiculous and depressing. This team needs a winning season, its so obvious when you look at how quickly these topics become poop show and not even fun to read (not all of them do which is why I come here).

Most other teams in the league have no need to put Mitts in the NHL last year. Very few other teams have a high end sub 20yr old D man. Add those two to the prospect pool and we have at minimum top 10 prospect pool? With our best NHL players all being 23-24 and younger. I think that's a great place to be. We might potentially have Team USAs top D pair come late December at the World Junior.

Rochester is much better then they have been in a decade with a healthy mix of veterans and prospects. A great environment to grow and develop as a player. Rochester can't be all prospects or this doesn't happen.

Did we wake up on the right side of the bed this morning?

We just picked top 10. Shouldn't that have given us a bump?

And come on man, you don't honestly think I'm "anti Botts," do you? I want him to succeed and I want the Sabres to succeed. Until that happens, it's fair to question his track record
- jcragcrumple

That is THE QUESTION that needs to be discussed, what is considered success?
In the context of rating Prospect Systems, having a pool of players who may become NHLers as determined by "expert analysts", or having actual NHL players who have graduated from said pool?
The answer is obvious to all but the most ignorant.
If you are arguing the drafting has been unsuccessful since the pool is somewhat depleted, as a result of prospects who immediately graduated to the NHL, or who were traded out (Guhle, Nylander) to secure better prospects that weren't listed due to some random cutoff of NHL games played (Jokiharju) or better yet, young NHL players (Montour), IDK man... it is blantanly obvious that a false narrative is being promoted.

Also, on one hand criticizing a GM who trades mid/later round draft picks for proven NHL players, when the probability of said mid/late round draft picks ever reaching the NHL is very low (-20%), that is just plain crazy talk.

What should be criticized are NHL Team Prospect Pools that still have top 10 draft picks from 2+ years ago, like Nylander who couldn't crack a lineup even when openings at their position exist...rather than being buried due to logjam issues.

That is THE QUESTION that needs to be discussed, what is considered success?
In the context of rating Prospect Systems, having a pool of players who may become NHLers as determined by "expert analysts", or having actual NHL players who have graduated from said pool?
The answer is obvious to all but the most ignorant.
If you are arguing the drafting has been unsuccessful since the pool is somewhat depleted, as a result of prospects who immediately graduated to the NHL, or who were traded out (Guhle, Nylander) to secure better prospects that weren't listed due to some random cutoff of NHL games played (Jokiharju) or better yet, young NHL players (Montour), IDK man... it is blantanly obvious that a false narrative is being promoted.

Also, on one hand criticizing a GM who trades mid/later round draft picks for proven NHL players, when the probability of said mid/late round draft picks ever reaching the NHL is very low (-20%), that is just plain crazy talk.

What should be criticized are NHL Team Prospect Pools that still have top 10 draft picks from 2+ years ago, like Nylander who couldn't crack a lineup even when openings at their position exist...rather than being buried due to logjam issues.
- IonSabres

That is THE QUESTION that needs to be discussed, what is considered success?
In the context of rating Prospect Systems, having a pool of players who may become NHLers as determined by "expert analysts", or having actual NHL players who have graduated from said pool?
The answer is obvious to all but the most ignorant.
If you are arguing the drafting has been unsuccessful since the pool is somewhat depleted, as a result of prospects who immediately graduated to the NHL, or who were traded out (Guhle, Nylander) to secure better prospects that weren't listed due to some random cutoff of NHL games played (Jokiharju) or better yet, young NHL players (Montour), IDK man... it is blantanly obvious that a false narrative is being promoted.

Also, on one hand criticizing a GM who trades mid/later round draft picks for proven NHL players, when the probability of said mid/late round draft picks ever reaching the NHL is very low (-20%), that is just plain crazy talk.

What should be criticized are NHL Team Prospect Pools that still have top 10 draft picks from 2+ years ago, like Nylander who couldn't crack a lineup even when openings at their position exist...rather than being buried due to logjam issues.
- IonSabres

Yes.

Darcy Regier prospect full-time graduates outside the 1st round, since 2010:

Jake McCabe, Linus Ullmark, JT Compher - 3 in 4 years.
Cal Petersen will eventually make this 4.


Tim Murray prospect full-time graduates outside the 1st round, since 2014:

Brendan Lemieux, Brendan Guhle - 2 in 3 years.
Victor Olofsson, Rasmus Asplund and Will Borgen will eventually make this 5.

It's too early to judge Jason Botterill's draft selections, as your 2nd round and later players typically take at the very least 2 years, if not 3-5.

Players tracking well are Davidsson, UPL, Laaksonen, Samuelsson and Pekar. Commenting on the 2019 draft class is pure speculation.

But if you want to see a hint as to why this team has been bad for so long, go find me an impact player that came to this org outside the 1st round since 2010.

Darcy Regier prospect full-time graduates outside the 1st round, since 2010:

Jake McCabe, Linus Ullmark, JT Compher - 3 in 4 years.
Cal Petersen will eventually make this 4.


Tim Murray prospect full-time graduates outside the 1st round, since 2014:

Brendan Lemieux, Brendan Guhle - 2 in 3 years.
Victor Olofsson, Rasmus Asplund and Will Borgen will eventually make this 5.

It's too early to judge Jason Botterill's draft selections, as your 2nd round and later players typically take at the very least 2 years, if not 3-5.

Players tracking well are Davidsson, UPL, Laaksonen, Samuelsson and Pekar. Commenting on the 2019 draft class is pure speculation.

But if you want to see a hint as to why this team has been bad for so long, go find me an impact player that came to this org outside the 1st round since 2010.
- TheSabresTaco

Good post ! Also doesn’t hurt to draft higher in the first round to maximize the probability of success so that’s why I didn’t mind us not mortgaging picks and prospects for a short term solution to make a playoff run last year. Cozens should make this team better for the long haul.

Darcy Regier prospect full-time graduates outside the 1st round, since 2010:

Jake McCabe, Linus Ullmark, JT Compher - 3 in 4 years.
Cal Petersen will eventually make this 4.


Tim Murray prospect full-time graduates outside the 1st round, since 2014:

Brendan Lemieux, Brendan Guhle - 2 in 3 years.
Victor Olofsson, Rasmus Asplund and Will Borgen will eventually make this 5.

It's too early to judge Jason Botterill's draft selections, as your 2nd round and later players typically take at the very least 2 years, if not 3-5.

Players tracking well are Davidsson, UPL, Laaksonen, Samuelsson and Pekar. Commenting on the 2019 draft class is pure speculation.

But if you want to see a hint as to why this team has been bad for so long, go find me an impact player that came to this org outside the 1st round since 2010.
- TheSabresTaco

There is the key to developing a good roster, hitting on those picks outside of the 1st...no matter if Bottom 6 or 3rd pairing.

Good post ! Also doesn’t hurt to draft higher in the first round to maximize the probability of success so that’s why I didn’t mind us not mortgaging picks and prospects for a short term solution to make a playoff run last year. Cozens should make this team better for the long haul.
- Swedish_Jesus

So will better drafting. You need your 2nds 3rds and 4ths to hit and at the very least, contribute. Every other team manages to find impact in the mid rounds, especially Ottawa for some reason. Buffalo needs to get on the board here.