Starting in the D zone isn’t a death sentence

Face offs are usually 50%

Which means almost 50% of the time you start in the D zone you end up with the puck off the draw
- OneKaneOneCup

Yesterday you told us if we were to deploy Risto primarily with O-Zone starts it would be "SHELTERING" him and signal to the rest of the League that he is bad. So heavy O-Zone starts are important.

Now, D-Zone starts are not important.

You are getting swept away again.

9, with 2 more within 4 minutes


What it tells me is that the rest of the league deploys their offensive defensemen as offensive defefensemen, except for the Sabres who insist on deploying theirs like Jay McKee
- jcragcrumple

Yes, because Jay McKee was our top PP guy.

Yesterday you told us if we were to deploy Risto primarily with O-Zone starts it would be "SHELTERING" him and signal to the rest of the League that he is bad. So heavy O-Zone starts are important.

Now, D-Zone starts are not important.

You are getting swept away again.
- Der Kaiser

No, not really

Risto I don’t think sucks ...... I just think we need to use him to get a center / top 6 forward.

He has value that we need to utilize
- Sabretooth9

I agree with all of that

I'm just presenting some data that I think shows why risto has horrible blue bubbles on the graphs that drives the analytic crowd wild.

He's literally doing something that the rest of the league is smart enough not to do

Yes, because Jay McKee was our top PP guy.
- OneKaneOneCup

That's my point.

You dont put McKee on the PP, and you dont have your offensive defenseman play hard defensive minutes

I agree with all of that

I'm just presenting some data that I think shows why risto has horrible blue bubbles on the graphs that drives the analytic crowd wild.

He's literally doing something that the rest of the league is smart enough not to do
- jcragcrumple

The problem here is that if you have to do that with him, especially to this extent, he hurts your team more than he helps.

The problem here is that if you have to do that with him, especially to this extent, he hurts your team more than he helps.
- buffalofan19

Wouldn't that be the case on the teams that follow that practice, then?

Wouldn't that be the case on the teams that follow that practice, then?
- Der Kaiser

This is where they tell you risto isn't as good as those guys and he doesn't warrant that treatment, despite playing harder minutes and literally producing as much as them

That's my point.

You dont put McKee on the PP, and you dont have your offensive defenseman play hard defensive minutes
- jcragcrumple

Did Jay McKee ever get top 15-30 O zone starts like Risto has?

You are acting like the other side of the coin doesn’t exist.

Ristolainen is treated like an offensive defensemen

Ristolainen is also treated like a defensive defensemen

His D zone starts have little to nothing to do with points he gets on the power play

This is where they tell you risto isn't as good as those guys and he doesn't warrant that treatment, despite playing harder minutes and literally producing as much as them
- jcragcrumple

He’s not as good, and he doesn’t.

Did Jay McKee ever get top 15-30 O zone starts like Risto has?

You are acting like the other side of the coin doesn’t exist.

Ristolainen is treated like an offensive defensemen

Ristolainen is also treated like a defensive defensemen

His D zone starts have little to nothing to do with points he gets on the power play
- OneKaneOneCup

I just showed you that he's not.

He is in a club of 2 people out of 27. If I went down to 40 on that list, I doubt it would grow much

I just showed you that he's not.

He is in a club of 2 people out of 27. If I went down to 40 on that list, I doubt it would grow much
- jcragcrumple

Jesus Christ dude. He’s top 10 in PP time. Top 10. Where a majority of his scoring comes from. He’s top 30 in total O zone starts. Top 30. As in a low end #1 in total O zone starts.

You keep wanting to intertwine counting stats and rate stats to fit your narrative.

Here’s what’s going to happen -

He’s going to get less TOTAL minutes, so less TOTAL o zone starts

He’s going to get less TOTAL PP time, so less TOTAL pp points

The above has nothing to do with zone start %

If you want to argue that his % stats get better because his zone start % is more favorable, then yes, let’s have that discussion.

Arguing that giving him less TOTAL opportunity, isn’t going to effect his TOTALS is nonsensical

There is a new place to argue

There is a new place to argue
- Der Kaiser

shut your face

There is a new place to argue
- Der Kaiser

Hey at least it’s about hockey.