I'm getting really tired of the implication that anyone who expected more movement is unreasonable. So let's look at this question.

1. Vesey in, Pommer out. Remember the sabres also are losing players. I like Vesey a touch better, but as far as addressing offense, this move is close to a wash.

2. Mojo - third line player with health issues. Probably gets 20 goals. Nice pickup.

3. Miller - A genuinely great move.

4. Olofsson is not an addition. He was here at the end of last year, and besides he is a rookie. There is a great chance his impact isn't significant this year.

5. Joker - AHL player. I swear 90% of this board didn't know his name when we picked him up. The hawks need defensive help and they signed two top 4 D, which means Joker wasn't going to play in the NHL there either. He could become amazing, but I doubt we will see him until 2020.

So, 'roster surgery' ended up being calling up an AHL player, trading for pomminville's replacement and a second pairing defenseman, and signing a third liner. Oh and adding defensive depth to Rochester.

Keep in mind Bogosian and Pilut are both on IR, both of whom would be top 7 if they were healthy. Those are subtractions for at least the first couple months.
- matty12345

1. Vesey is definitely an upgrade. Younger, bigger, stronger. Scored just as much playing mostly on the 3rd line with more of a defensive role. Pominville did nothing away from Jack.
2. Mojo if healthy should get about 50 points and be help defensively and with the transition game.
3. Agreed
4. Olofsson played 6 games and had 2g 2a. If he earns a spot it should definitely be considered an addition.
5. Chicago did not sign 2 dmen, however they did trade for 2. Both veteran LD and traded a RD. They are in a win now situation because their window is closing quickly. Joker was playing well, but once Quenneville was fired he never got a chance.

Add in a full season of Montour, plus the growth of some of the younger guys (Mitts, Dahlin, et al) and the team should prove to be much better.

I understand that your defense mechanism is to discredit everything that JBotts does or doesn't do so you can feel good about yourself if the Sabres don't do well, but your schtick is getting tiresome.

[quote=ImThatGuy]

Death by taxation sounds better than death by wind and rain LOL

Not true in that you don't think they are good defensemen? In that case i agree somewhat. But the hawks definitely plan to play them both.

There is no way Joker was making the top 6, which is why they traded him.
- matty12345

They moved Joker because they had a surplus of RHD prospects and a deficiency up front. They had just drafted Boqvist the year before 8th overall. Joker had more value then Krys, Carlsson, Mitchell, and Beaudin to acquire a piece they coveted in Nylander.

Other teams have third liners who score 20G or 40P.

Case in point, Mojo was a third liner on his teams. He probably gets to 20 because he will see second line time and poweplay time here.
- matty12345

Who cares about other teams? Our 2nd line had no one one close to 20g or 40p.

Death by taxation sounds better than death by wind and rain LOL
- Stripes77

Just become rich, then you won't be taxed at all. Amirite?

Just become rich, then you won't be taxed at all. Amirite?
- buffalofan19

HEYYY OHHHHH

But only the rich get richer...right?

HEYYY OHHHHH

But only the rich get richer...right?
- Stripes77

I think that's why I'm not...

I think adding vesey, johansson, olofsson and cozens will be enough up front

with a competent head coach
- homiedclown

You think Cozens stays up?

I feel like more people look at the face value of these players, as a group, and say, why didn't Botts do more.

What they should be looking at is, (frank), the depth chart got a lot (frank)ing better. We're suddenly not so top heavy. I mean really, really top heavy.

Crag brings up a good point too. Casey is the biggest wildcard of this season. Our rookies will improve, sure, but if Casey doubles his production like he does his whoppers, the season will go even better. It will be the biggest wholesale improvement on the entire roster.
- TheSabresTaco

I understand we didn't add top line players, but I think a lot of people here agree that depth was one of our biggest issues. Promotions and a few wing acquisitions should help get us some scoring behind ECHL. To me that was a big step and we spent a 3rd thus far? Pretty solid.

It's between Casey and Dahlin for me. Dahlin turns into a legit #1 and we're in a much different scenario than this entire drought has had where we had #3s or worse playing top pairing. A legitimate defense would help the tenders and get those forwards like Mitts a lot more time in the o-zone. We shall see.

At the moment, it's far from certain that he'll make the team. GMs and coaches follow the path of least resistance when it comes to roster moves. Due to his eligibility for roch without waivers, and because of the numbers (still) on D, he seems to be a likely candidate to go down.

Vesey replaced pominville.

That leaves miller and mojo. Nice adds to be sure, but it remains to be seen if that's enough to make a big difference. The season still hinges on internal development, largely from Mittelstadt in my opinion. I think one more move to get Sheary out of the top-6 RW, or bringing in a center in case eichel gets hurt would have been a good play. Maybe it works out anyway though.
- jcragcrumple

We shall see. Hunwick is done for the year. Pilut and Bogo on IR to start. Nelson and Scandella are worse players. They can fit Joker. I'd be surprised if he isn't apart of the starting 6 by year's end.

To me Vesey brings more speed and scoring to the middle 6 than Pommer did. Yes, Pommer did well on Jack's wing, but he wasn't great anywhere else. Vesey won't be playing top line, so if he can get 17-20 goals this year, we're adding. I don't think he should be discounted as just replacing Pommer.

Full year from Olo. Full year from Montour. Miller was a good acquisition. Even if we do not make another move (I am 99% sure they will by the end of Octover) then we replaced 4-6 players out of the starting 18. If we were looking for a ton more, IMO, we were dreaming. Can't argue a 2C or 1RW wouldn't have been nice, but were we trading #7 and Risto to get one of those? I'm not sure we were ready for that, so I really like the moves. Cheap, kept the pipeline in tact and improved depth significantly (most likely scenario).

I'm getting really tired of the implication that anyone who expected more movement is unreasonable. So let's look at this question.

1. Vesey in, Pommer out. Remember the sabres also are losing players. I like Vesey a touch better, but as far as addressing offense, this move is close to a wash.

2. Mojo - third line player with health issues. Probably gets 20 goals. Nice pickup.

3. Miller - A genuinely great move.

4. Olofsson is not an addition. He was here at the end of last year, and besides he is a rookie. There is a great chance his impact isn't significant this year.

5. Joker - AHL player. I swear 90% of this board didn't know his name when we picked him up. The hawks need defensive help and they signed two top 4 D, which means Joker wasn't going to play in the NHL there either. He could become amazing, but I doubt we will see him until 2020.

So, 'roster surgery' ended up being calling up an AHL player, trading for pomminville's replacement and a second pairing defenseman, and signing a third liner. Oh and adding defensive depth to Rochester.

Keep in mind Bogosian and Pilut are both on IR, both of whom would be top 7 if they were healthy. Those are subtractions for at least the first couple months.
- matty12345

1. Vesey > Pommer
2. Who on our team scored 20 goals last year? Great pickup.
3. Agreed.
4. This is about roster turnover so I think he should be included. He will be here and at worst, he is an upgrade over any winger in our bottom6 last year. He did not look out of place at all during his call up. Can't wait to see him on the PP.
5. You will see with Joker. He will be on this team full time by year's end. I'll bet an avatar on that haha.

Lastly, are we really going to say NOT having Bogo is a subtraction? We're adding 3 wingers, 2 defenders if Joker makes it and a new coach. Botts did fine. He'll probably make another move, too many defenders. If we acquire another middle 6 forward with some scoring ability for him, I like our chances to break our 76pt projection, we'll put it that way.

Rant over. I will conform to the Eeyore types.

Do Something Botts!!!

1. Vesey is definitely an upgrade. Younger, bigger, stronger. Scored just as much playing mostly on the 3rd line with more of a defensive role. Pominville did nothing away from Jack.
2. Mojo if healthy should get about 50 points and be help defensively and with the transition game.
3. Agreed
4. Olofsson played 6 games and had 2g 2a. If he earns a spot it should definitely be considered an addition.
5. Chicago did not sign 2 dmen, however they did trade for 2. Both veteran LD and traded a RD. They are in a win now situation because their window is closing quickly. Joker was playing well, but once Quenneville was fired he never got a chance.

Add in a full season of Montour, plus the growth of some of the younger guys (Mitts, Dahlin, et al) and the team should prove to be much better.

I understand that your defense mechanism is to discredit everything that JBotts does or doesn't do so you can feel good about yourself if the Sabres don't do well, but your schtick is getting tiresome.
- adambuffalo

Yes.

Rant over. I will conform to the Eeyore types.

Do Something Botts!!!
- RhinoFan

Breaking this up because it feels like a nice thing to do.

We shall see. Hunwick is done for the year. Pilut and Bogo on IR to start. Nelson and Scandella are worse players. They can fit Joker. I'd be surprised if he isn't apart of the starting 6 by year's end.

To me Vesey brings more speed and scoring to the middle 6 than Pommer did. Yes, Pommer did well on Jack's wing, but he wasn't great anywhere else. Vesey won't be playing top line, so if he can get 17-20 goals this year, we're adding. I don't think he should be discounted as just replacing Pommer.

Full year from Olo. Full year from Montour. Miller was a good acquisition. Even if we do not make another move (I am 99% sure they will by the end of Octover) then we replaced 4-6 players out of the starting 18. If we were looking for a ton more, IMO, we were dreaming. Can't argue a 2C or 1RW wouldn't have been nice, but were we trading #7 and Risto to get one of those? I'm not sure we were ready for that, so I really like the moves. Cheap, kept the pipeline in tact and improved depth significantly (most likely scenario).
- RhinoFan

I would beg to differ on that point, but it's moot. Things could be different but they're not. We'll see if Botterill did enough. If Mitts is really good, we're in good shape. If Girgensons decides to break Eichel's ankle on the last practice of training camp, or if Eichel misses more than 5 games, I think we're in trouble. I think maybe too much of the season depends on a 19 year old and a 20 year old. I hope for the fans' remaining sanity that they're up for it

It's a bold strategy cotton

This should be interesting

A buddy of mine is the GM for Delta Airlines in Orlando I saw him yesterday and they have the eye going directly over MCO.

Us here in Orlando could have some fun!
- Stripes77

Stay safe sir!

I would beg to differ on that point, but it's moot. Things could be different but they're not. We'll see if Botterill did enough. If Mitts is really good, we're in good shape. If Girgensons decides to break Eichel's ankle on the last practice of training camp, or if Eichel misses more than 5 games, I think we're in trouble. I think maybe too much of the season depends on a 19 year old and a 20 year old. I hope for the fans' remaining sanity that they're up for it

It's a bold strategy cotton
- jcragcrumple

It's a good point to mention that we didn't suffer a significant injury last season (meaning a significant player). If Jack, Sam, or a Goalie miss extended time, there's no depth there.

Trading Risto for a top 6 forward, wing or center, would not be stupid. It still could happen. Same log jam still hasn't cleared.
- Angler

U gotta think of how the lineup will look going forward though
We have Jack, Mitts & Cozens at Center
The need is for a goal scoring winger

Vesey, Mojo, Miller, Olofsson and Jokiharju.

This roster will be different, still haven't seen if Risto is traded or not.

Were you expecting more? If so, how many additions beyond 5 were you expecting?
- RhinoFan

Seems like some ppl would just rather b!tch & complain

I'm getting really tired of the implication that anyone who expected more movement is unreasonable. So let's look at this question.

1. Vesey in, Pommer out. Remember the sabres also are losing players. I like Vesey a touch better, but as far as addressing offense, this move is close to a wash.

2. Mojo - third line player with health issues. Probably gets 20 goals. Nice pickup.

3. Miller - A genuinely great move.

4. Olofsson is not an addition. He was here at the end of last year, and besides he is a rookie. There is a great chance his impact isn't significant this year.

5. Joker - AHL player. I swear 90% of this board didn't know his name when we picked him up. The hawks need defensive help and they signed two top 4 D, which means Joker wasn't going to play in the NHL there either. He could become amazing, but I doubt we will see him until 2020.

So, 'roster surgery' ended up being calling up an AHL player, trading for pomminville's replacement and a second pairing defenseman, and signing a third liner. Oh and adding defensive depth to Rochester.

Keep in mind Bogosian and Pilut are both on IR, both of whom would be top 7 if they were healthy. Those are subtractions for at least the first couple months.
- matty12345

He's an addition by definition. We all hope he is an impact addition.

This Joker take is silly.

Bill Hicks said in the early 90's, during one of his stand-up performances (that Dennis Leary probably stole), something about mediocrity becoming the norm, and what's becoming acceptable in American culture. Being good is now shunned - likewise, intelligence ridiculed, if you can do something someone else can't, it makes you "better" not "lucky".

At some point in the 90's, a meme arrived: "If you don't like it, you can leave!" as if wanting something to be "better" and not just "good enough" is somehow testament to one's hatred for said thing and not one's love - hence the desire for it to be better.

I think that it's related to intelligence in general.

He is a PPP talent. He will get there once we all get there.

Eichel (There already obviously)
Samson
Mitts
Skinner
Dahlin
Cozens (2024)

All PPP by 2022 (dead weight gone an year with new players under their belts)
- lulags

I could see Sam as a ppg player if he was at Center & had some wingers better than Pouliot & Seth Griffith
Might be tough for him to reach that point if he remains a winger though

U gotta think of how the lineup will look going forward though
We have Jack, Mitts & Cozens at Center
The need is for a goal scoring winger
- jdfitz77

"Wingers don't matter"??

Bill Hicks said in the early 90's, during one of his stand-up performances (that Dennis Leary probably stole), something about mediocrity becoming the norm, and what's becoming acceptable in American culture. Being good is now shunned - likewise, intelligence ridiculed, if you can do something someone else can't, it makes you "better" not "lucky".

At some point in the 90's, a meme arrived: "If you don't like it, you can leave!" as if wanting something to be "better" and not just "good enough" is somehow testament to one's hatred for said thing and not one's love - hence the desire for it to be better.

I think that it's related to intelligence in general.
- BeadyEyedDouche

I think I get what you're putting down.

Jeremy White (I know) has a point that he often makes that I agree with: the Bills and Sabres and a segment of the fan base often talk about progress as measured by the team's own past performances. So if the Bills go 8-8, that's progress, but it's not meaningful really in any way.

Jeremy White says something like: let me know when we're measuring ourselves by league standards, not past crappy team standards

Or I totally missed your point, idk

yeldon has over 170 catches in the last 4 years, going nowhere

just like risto
- homiedclown

McCoy, Gore & Singletary can all catch the ball too
Gonna be hard to keep all 4,
Don’t ya think?