again misquoting me, lets try again. you said lowry's corsi was 49 against others teams top opponents and because of this he was no good, I said ,well shief's was the same so does that mean he sucks to?

are we clear now? lol

trying to spin this like I'm saying lowry is as good as shief is weak on your part, I was just trying to point out a stat YOU used to point out Lowry was no good that Sheif actually shares that exact stat.

and do you honestly expect lowry or anyone would get the same points as shief with tanev and copp compared to wheeler and connor with no pp time and less overall ice time? cause that seems fair.
- Ross77

Stop with the misquoting crap Ross, give me an example of that ever happening. All I have ever done is try to clarify what your trying to say and sorry that my questions bother you so much.

Also if you believe in Lowry that much, than how come I never hear you advocate for Laine to play with him? Lowry surely would be able to elavate Laine's games to heights unbeknownst to us all.

I don’t have the time, or the care. It’s so easy to understand
- Rexypoo

Love your standard cop out Rexypoo, I guess Tony has not been able to explain that to you on Twitter I guess.

Stop with the misquoting crap Ross, give me an example of that ever happening. All I have ever done is try to clarify what your trying to say and sorry that my questions bother you so much.

Also if you believe in Lowry that much, than how come I never hear you advocate for Laine to play with him? Lowry surely would be able to elavate Laine's games to heights unbeknownst to us all.
- TheUltimateJet

I’ll take Perreault-Lowry-Laine any day.
It’s not that anyone is against Lowry and Laine, it’s that they are another situation of not getting the most out of either when together

Stop with the misquoting crap Ross, give me an example of that ever happening. All I have ever done is try to clarify what your trying to say and sorry that my questions bother you so much.

Also if you believe in Lowry that much, than how come I never hear you advocate for Laine to play with him? Lowry surely would be able to elavate Laine's games to heights unbeknownst to us all.
- TheUltimateJet

I have no problem putting Laine with Lowry, were they not together in Finland last year when Laine went off? I could be wrong but I do like them together

I have no problem putting Laine with Lowry, were they not together in Finland last year when Laine went off? I could be wrong but I do like them together
- Ross77

Laine's line mates were Bryan Little and Kyle Connor when he went off last year.

Thinking more about Laine. A friend of mine made an interesting comparison. He suggested to me that Laine's comparable is Rick Nash. Both are consistent 30 goal guys who's assist totals are for the most part below their goal totals. Both show flashes of taking over games but never really do. Both also do very little to elevate their line mates.

Looking at the first three seasons for both very comparable:

Laine's first three seasons:

2016-17 36g 28a 64 points
2017-18 44g 26a 70 points
2018-19 30g 20a 50 points

Nash's first three seasons:

2002-03 17g 22a 39 points
2003-04 41g 16a 57 points
2004-05 31g 23a 54 points

Mind you that Laine has shown he's more durable as Nash missed significant portions of his career due to injuries. In Nash's fourth year, he scored 27g and 30a for a total of 57 points. If trends continue for Laine down the same path as Nash's trajectory, he should get between 25 and 32 goals and get between 15 and 22 assists.

yes, hope they get Morrisey locked up now, something like 7 x 7 ?

IMO, Connor will get 7.2 per x 6 or 7 years, Laine will get 6 per x 3 years,
- Ross77

Not a chance! Holy poop man.

Nice to see Morrissey say that he'd love to stay in Winnipeg long term. Class guy and IMHO our best defenseman.

Keller signs long term in Arizona. Conner and Keller are "somewhat" comparable so $7.1 MM is a bit of a base number to add or subtract from.
- jetsnation

Not according Pete he is not. Pete, why don't delve into what ills you about Morrisey not being inclusive?

Thinking more about Laine. A friend of mine made an interesting comparison. He suggested to me that Laine's comparable is Rick Nash. Both are consistent 30 goal guys who's assist totals are for the most part below their goal totals. Both show flashes of taking over games but never really do. Both also do very little to elevate their line mates.

Looking at the first three seasons for both very comparable:

Laine's first three seasons:

2016-17 36g 28a 64 points
2017-18 44g 26a 70 points
2018-19 30g 20a 50 points

Nash's first three seasons:

2002-03 17g 22a 39 points
2003-04 41g 16a 57 points
2004-05 31g 23a 54 points

Mind you that Laine has shown he's more durable as Nash missed significant portions of his career due to injuries. In Nash's fourth year, he scored 27g and 30a for a total of 57 points. If trends continue for Laine down the same path as Nash's trajectory, he should get between 25 and 32 goals and get between 15 and 22 assists.
- TheUltimateJet

Massive, massive underestimating of Laine’s ability.

Nash was a player mired by injury and bad teams. Laine is likely already at peak Nash level by season’s end, with 2 more years to his own peak.

Massive, massive underestimating of Laine’s ability.

Nash was a player mired by injury and bad teams. Laine is likely already at peak Nash level by season’s end, with 2 more years to his own peak.
- Rexypoo

LOL Rexypoo the authority on every player that ever played in the NHL.

To use Ultimate's example Nash led the league in goals at age 19. I'm sure in 2003-4 when he did it you would have been calling him a "generational" goal scorer

LOL Rexypoo the authority on every player that ever played in the NHL.

To use Ultimate's example Nash led the league in goals at age 19. I'm sure in 2003-4 when he did it you would have been calling him a "generational" goal scorer
- BWJumper

A: Nash was one of the top goal scorers of his generation, but never had the shot quality or shooting percentage of Laine. You know, the guy who outscored Nash in all of his first 3 seasons while pushing Nash’s career high for points in his second year.

B: It’s worth noting that the difference in shooting ability between Auston Matthews and your baseline average NHLer is the same as the difference between Patrik Laine and Auston Matthews.
Laine is a cheat code. He needs time to keep improving, and at least one linemate who can help get the puck to him as often as possible.

A: Nash was one of the top goal scorers of his generation, but never had the shot quality or shooting percentage of Laine. You know, the guy who outscored Nash in all of his first 3 seasons while pushing Nash’s career high for points in his second year.

B: It’s worth noting that the difference in shooting ability between Auston Matthews and your baseline average NHLer is the same as the difference between Patrik Laine and Auston Matthews.
Laine is a cheat code. He needs time to keep improving, and at least one linemate who can help get the puck to him as often as possible.
- Rexypoo

I checked for you Rexypoo. Nash shot 15% in the last year of the dead puck era to tie for the league lead in goals at 19. then after the lockout his 3rd year he shot 18%, scored at a point per game and was on pace for 49 goals in an injury plagued year.

So yeah after 3 years you would have been talking about Nash much the same way you talk about Laine today.

Massive, massive underestimating of Laine’s ability.

Nash was a player mired by injury and bad teams. Laine is likely already at peak Nash level by season’s end, with 2 more years to his own peak.
- Rexypoo

I guess we have different ideas of what peaking means.

When Nash was 20, he scored 54 points in 54 games for a 1.000 points per game average.

Laine at age 20 had 50 points in 82 games for .609 points per game average.

Nash also contended with a red line. Could you please explain how Laine is already performing at Nash peak levels?

Furthermore there is nothing wrong if Laine becomes Rick Nash v2.0. Nash had a really good career in the NHL. He just did not become "generational" as some had pegged him early on his career, much like people like yourself are doing with Laine today.

that won't do it for a long term contract for Morrisey, likely closer to 8.5 or 9 if this season is as strong as last and with contracts inflating quickly. A recent comparable is the Trouba contract, also Buff's contract to compare with and JM is arguably the more valuable of the three.

I think a six or seven year contract for Connor looks more like 8m/season and if 6 is Laine's number it would be on a 1 year contract. 3 years is more like 8m.
- 2.0

Looking at recent D signings in the high 20's to low 30's points per season brings his value closer to 6 in my opinion. Either way it needs to be addressed as this team can't afford to lose their only top 4 LD. I think the signings of Chiarot/Meyers/Trouba were massive waste's of money and built up a false sense of D value within this club. Here are recent comperables I consider likely to establish a value closer to the 6M AAV for Josh:

Dev's inked Butcher for just 3.73M AAV through 3 of his prime years. Esa Lindell is quite similar in style and production and inked a 6 year 5.8M AAV extension. Murray in Columbus notched 30 points in 56 games and signed a 2 year 4.6M AAV.

Looking at recent D signings in the high 20's to low 30's points per season brings his value closer to 6 in my opinion. Either way it needs to be addressed as this team can't afford to lose their only top 4 LD. I think the signings of Chiarot/Meyers/Trouba were massive waste's of money and built up a false sense of D value within this club. Here are recent comperables I consider likely to establish a value closer to the 6M AAV for Josh:

Dev's inked Butcher for just 3.73M AAV through 3 of his prime years. Esa Lindell is quite similar in style and production and inked a 6 year 5.8M AAV extension. Murray in Columbus notched 30 points in 56 games and signed a 2 year 4.6M AAV.
- bikeguy99

I didn't check but are those guys playing as top pairing and big minutes each game while seeing little to no PP time? Morrissey's value goes way up if he has similar performance this year without Trouba as linemate. I see offensive upside with JoMo still developing, should hit 50 pts sometime in the next few years.

that won't do it for a long term contract for Morrisey, likely closer to 8.5 or 9 if this season is as strong as last and with contracts inflating quickly. A recent comparable is the Trouba contract, also Buff's contract to compare with and JM is arguably the more valuable of the three.

I think a six or seven year contract for Connor looks more like 8m/season and if 6 is Laine's number it would be on a 1 year contract. 3 years is more like 8m.
- 2.0

Respectfully 2.0. I think your quite high on the Morrissey number. He just hasnt played the big minutes yet to justify that type of salary. Heck, we wouldn't give Trouba $7.5 MM so there is no way Morrissey is getting 8-9 MM. I think he signs long -term for $7 MM AAV.

I'm super high on Kyle Connor and I think he also gets signed long-term. As I stated previously I'm thinkig its the same numbers as Keller....around $7 MM give or take a few 100k. He is a future superstar in the NHL and a very good defensive player.

I also think its a given that Laine is bridged. 1-2 years. It just can't be any other way. Chevy will basically say you need to show us more than what we saw last season if you want to get paid the big bucks...and also that your back issues are gone. He'll get bridged for 6-7 MM AAV. He still has a lot to learn , especially with positioning and defensively. He needs to prove he is worth it .

You don’t pay someone for what he has done - you pay him for what he is going to do.

with Gardiner now signed in Carolina, I'm completely guessing (AND NOT IN FAVOUR OF!!!) but I predict we now trade Ehlers to Carolina for a D.
possibly;
-Faulk and a prospect
-Pesce straight up
-two prospects like Necas and Bean

this woulkd then free up some extra cash and we will sign both Connor and Laine to long term deals, no bridge deals.


again, just guessing, not suggesting

with Gardiner now signed in Carolina, I'm completely guessing (AND NOT IN FAVOUR OF!!!) but I predict we now trade Ehlers to Carolina for a D.
possibly;
-Faulk and a prospect
-Pesce straight up
-two prospects like Necas and Bean

this woulkd then free up some extra cash and we will sign both Connor and Laine to long term deals, no bridge deals.


again, just guessing, not suggesting
- Ross77

Hope not.....

Respectfully 2.0. I think your quite high on the Morrissey number. He just hasnt played the big minutes yet to justify that type of salary. Heck, we wouldn't give Trouba $7.5 MM so there is no way Morrissey is getting 8-9 MM. I think he signs long -term for $7 MM AAV.

I'm super high on Kyle Connor and I think he also gets signed long-term. As I stated previously I'm thinkig its the same numbers as Keller....around $7 MM give or take a few 100k. He is a future superstar in the NHL and a very good defensive player.

I also think its a given that Laine is bridged. 1-2 years. It just can't be any other way. Chevy will basically say you need to show us more than what we saw last season if you want to get paid the big bucks...and also that your back issues are gone. He'll get bridged for 6-7 MM AAV. He still has a lot to learn , especially with positioning and defensively. He needs to prove he is worth it .
- jetsnation

I agree with nearly all of this... but Connor is horrendous defensively. Like, really bad. On par with Laine, bottom of the league bad defensively.

with Gardiner now signed in Carolina, I'm completely guessing (AND NOT IN FAVOUR OF!!!) but I predict we now trade Ehlers to Carolina for a D.
possibly;
-Faulk and a prospect
-Pesce straight up
-two prospects like Necas and Bean

this woulkd then free up some extra cash and we will sign both Connor and Laine to long term deals, no bridge deals.


again, just guessing, not suggesting
- Ross77

Faulk is kinda bad, they already said no to Ehlers for Pesce, and we can’t afford to trade star players for unprovens when we’re already close to done with our window

with Gardiner now signed in Carolina, I'm completely guessing (AND NOT IN FAVOUR OF!!!) but I predict we now trade Ehlers to Carolina for a D.
possibly;
-Faulk and a prospect
-Pesce straight up
-two prospects like Necas and Bean

this woulkd then free up some extra cash and we will sign both Connor and Laine to long term deals, no bridge deals.


again, just guessing, not suggesting
- Ross77

These are some great deductions! I am in favor of trading one of our elite wingers. We need a legit #1 center and/or a legit #1 defense man. The stat that's most glaring about Ehlers is 0. 0 goals in 21 playoff games.

I love Ehlers, but his disappearing act in the playoffs is very Alexander Semin-esque.

Faulk is kinda bad, they already said no to Ehlers for Pesce, and we can’t afford to trade star players for unprovens when we’re already close to done with our window
- Rexypoo

first off, I don't want to trade ehlers

secondly, talk of Windows opening or closing is the MOST OVERRATED USELESS PHRASING IN HOCKEY LANGUAGE

we were the youngest iced team in the entire NHL last year for long stretches and will probably be again but yet somehow our window is closing when we control the following players for many years to come;

Wheeler
Shiefele
Ehelrs
Connor
Laine
Rosy
Vesalainen
Morrisey
Buff
Heinola
Samberg
Niku
Helle
Berdin

sure, those guys all suck and our window is shut. move back to Atlanta

You don’t pay someone for what he has done - you pay him for what he is going to do.
- bennythehat

I wish Chevy had gotten this advice prior to signing both Little and Wheeler.

first off, I don't want to trade ehlers

secondly, talk of Windows opening or closing is the MOST OVERRATED USELESS PHRASING IN HOCKEY LANGUAGE

we were the youngest iced team in the entire NHL last year for long stretches and will probably be again but yet somehow our window is closing when we control the following players for many years to come;

Wheeler
Shiefele
Ehelrs
Connor
Laine
Rosy
Vesalainen
Morrisey
Buff
Heinola
Samberg
Niku
Helle
Berdin

sure, those guys all suck and our window is shut. move back to Atlanta
- Ross77

Also as I always say. Only way to get value in a trade is by trading value.

You could have many wings, and with only one true engine, the extra wings become useless.