You guys get Mantha yet?
- Feds91Stammer

Straight up for Sobadka

Straight up for Sobadka
- jochfr

A good 1 for 1 hockey trade.

A good 1 for 1 hockey trade.
- Feds91Stammer

Would anyone on either side complain about a Risto for Mantha, 1 for 1 hockey trade?

What could be holding this up? Which side should get more?

Would anyone on either side complain about a Risto for Mantha, 1 for 1 hockey trade?

What could be holding this up? Which side should get more?
- Bufsaints8

Skinner - Eichel - Mantha
Mojo - Mitts - Rienhart
Olofsson - Erod - Vesey
Girgs - Asplund - Okposo

Skinner - Eichel - Mantha
Mojo - Mitts - Rienhart
Olofsson - Erod - Vesey
Girgs - Asplund - Okposo
- Bufsaints8

Risto is here to stay, sorry.

You've brought this up before again and again boohooing about the paste and being incredibly bleak regarding the future, skewing facts and reality trying to prove some overly negative point.

This point is completely inaccurate. We have a new coach who isn't familiar with Scandella who needs time to get familiar with Scandella. He will also be playing under a different system because I can't imagine Krueger deploying a similar man to man D-zone scheme. If he plays, it will likely be because he has earned a spot. For him it might be easier than others because of positional depth due to injuries, but still, earned. Let the new staff settle in and get a grasp of things before we descent to the depths of hell.
- Bufsaints8

Okay, please tell me who they cut, failed to resign, or traded away from last years NHL roster other than Pomminville? Since I'm skewing facts I obviously am leaving names out.

The future is bleak because its the same as the past. The roster is nearly identical. The teams they are competing with, like Florida, the Canes, and the Flyers have all made much bigger improvements.

Look. When I complained the roster was unchanged in mid July I was told to shut up, I clearly don't know hockey or have inside sources, because big huge hockey trades are coming. Well it is mid september now and the roster is the exact same. This is your 2019-2020 buffalo Sabres, same as the 2018-2019 Buffalo Sabres.

That is unacceptable to me and shows lack of honesty from the owner and the GM when they promised people would be held accountable. They lied, and they weren't. Maybe dream trade scenarios didn't develop, but this team chose to bring back Ullmark, Rodrigues, Girgensons, McCabe, Larsson, Ellie. They choose not to use a buyout on Scandella, Okposo, Bogo. They hung the whole thing on a coach who got here after half these terrible players and called it a day.

Maybe in July you could call me negative. Now it's september, and I call you insane.

Would anyone on either side complain about a Risto for Mantha, 1 for 1 hockey trade?

What could be holding this up? Which side should get more?
- Bufsaints8

Detroit would absolutely hate it. For a multitude of reasons.

I was tempted to break out the charts and colourful graphics to show just how bad Scandella is, but why bother. As long as he plays, it is a clear sign the organization holds no one accountable. Not one player has been cut, traded, or even not resigned except Pominville, and they might still bring him back. It's not that the organization doesn't realize their players suck, they just simply refuse to care.

Press conferences and interviews with Botteril are going to get so ugly by November. "roster surgery" ended up being precisely not resigning Pominville? The media has so much ammunition and it's freaking September. If they start 0-2 I think this could be really nasty by the third game.
- matty12345

Ah yes. Another great insightful post from you. Minus Pominville, this will be the exact same team as last year. Just wish the team would have tried to address the defense. Maybe bring in some middle six forwards to help with the secondary scoring. Maybe even try to get a coach that can get the most out of his players and put them in a spot to succeed.
Oh well, maybe Housley will finally get his players to buy into man to man defense. Maybe Beaulieu and Berglund will be effective in the 15 minutes a night they were getting last October and Scandella and Sobotka will continue to earn the 20 minutes a night they were playing. You know, because everything is going to be the same as last year, minus Pominville of course.

Ah yes. Another great insightful post from you. Minus Pominville, this will be the exact same team as last year. Just wish the team would have tried to address the defense. Maybe bring in some middle six forwards to help with the secondary scoring. Maybe even try to get a coach that can get the most out of his players and put them in a spot to succeed.
Oh well, maybe Housley will finally get his players to buy into man to man defense. Maybe Beaulieu and Berglund will be effective in the 15 minutes a night they were getting last October and Scandella and Sobotka will continue to earn the 20 minutes a night they were playing. You know, because everything is going to be the same as last year, minus Pominville of course.
- adambuffalo

I can't imagine how you think this will be the same team as last year. Is it opening night? Just because people are on the roster now doesn't mean they will be dressing opening night.

I can't imagine how you think this will be the same team as last year. Is it opening night? Just because people are on the roster now doesn't mean they will be dressing opening night.
- Slump Buster

r/whoosh

people tend to forget how much pilut struggled in the latter part of his nhl season and into the playoffs for the amerks after teams figured him out...

has great promise but has a ways to go
- Michael Pachla

Good post. A lot of people ignore that this even happened, or just blame Phil. I'm not a fan of selectively blaming Phil. Pilut still has some work to do to adjust to the NHL game, and I have no problem with him having to fight for a roster spot.

Detroit would absolutely hate it. For a multitude of reasons.
- Feds91Stammer

1 simple trick to make your team better

Red wings fans HATE this

I can't imagine how you think this will be the same team as last year. Is it opening night? Just because people are on the roster now doesn't mean they will be dressing opening night.
- Slump Buster

We shall see, won't we.

Still time for a big Risto for 2C trade! Stay positive Sabres Nation!

I never knew about this Cap rule:

https://www.tsn.ca/why-ev...aine-and-connor-1.1363841

Nylander signing as late as he did actually helped the Leafs in future years.

r/whoosh
- Feds91Stammer

1 simple trick to make your team better

Red wings fans HATE this
- jcragcrumple

Lmao

We shall see, won't we.

Still time for a big Risto for 2C trade! Stay positive Sabres Nation!
- matty12345

Can't wait until this is put to rest and everyone moves on.

Okay, please tell me who they cut, failed to resign, or traded away from last years NHL roster other than Pomminville? Since I'm skewing facts I obviously am leaving names out.

The future is bleak because its the same as the past. The roster is nearly identical. The teams they are competing with, like Florida, the Canes, and the Flyers have all made much bigger improvements.

Look. When I complained the roster was unchanged in mid July I was told to shut up, I clearly don't know hockey or have inside sources, because big huge hockey trades are coming. Well it is mid september now and the roster is the exact same. This is your 2019-2020 buffalo Sabres, same as the 2018-2019 Buffalo Sabres.

That is unacceptable to me and shows lack of honesty from the owner and the GM when they promised people would be held accountable. They lied, and they weren't. Maybe dream trade scenarios didn't develop, but this team chose to bring back Ullmark, Rodrigues, Girgensons, McCabe, Larsson, Ellie. They choose not to use a buyout on Scandella, Okposo, Bogo. They hung the whole thing on a coach who got here after half these terrible players and called it a day.

Maybe in July you could call me negative. Now it's september, and I call you insane.
- matty12345

Timeline:

1.) Acquired Montour - Top 4 D man. He was only part of the team for a short period of time. We were already out of the playoffs. This essentially kicked off the off season makeover.
2.) Fire Housley - Intimidate upgrade (a coach is on the roster)
3.) Hire Krueger - Jury will be out for a while but i think we all feel pretty good about this right now.
4.) Signed Skinner - This roster could have lost potentially 40 goals.
5.) Acquired Miller - Playoff experience - Solid middle to bottom pairing D man. (3-5 guy)
6.) Acquire Vesey - Big player, strong skater, should improve scoring depth
7.) Signed Mojo - Great contract, still a middle 6 impact player, playoff experience abundant.
8.) Clearly won a trade to acquire Joker for a Joker..haha..Nylander was going nowhere with this organization. This trade could pay huge dividends in the future.

Its clear that competition in this year's camp was a key point. I DO NOT believe anyone's job is safe. Also, you aren't going to get rid of bad players via trade. Bad players will be waived at the conclusion of camp i.e. Larsson & Sobatka if they don't earn a job. Why would you waive them before? You wouldn't. Larsson is likely 4C unless he is displaced by Asplund. You had to sign him in case no one else was ready yet.

Am I missing anything? This is a lot of change in a 5 month window.

How much more could have been done, minus trading Risto, to this roster in that amount of time without leveraging the future AND the cap?????

Can't wait until this is put to rest and everyone moves on.
- Carubba-Kaleta

I have some bad news about that part

Okay, please tell me who they cut, failed to resign, or traded away from last years NHL roster other than Pomminville? Since I'm skewing facts I obviously am leaving names out.

The future is bleak because its the same as the past. The roster is nearly identical. The teams they are competing with, like Florida, the Canes, and the Flyers have all made much bigger improvements.

Look. When I complained the roster was unchanged in mid July I was told to shut up, I clearly don't know hockey or have inside sources, because big huge hockey trades are coming. Well it is mid september now and the roster is the exact same. This is your 2019-2020 buffalo Sabres, same as the 2018-2019 Buffalo Sabres.

That is unacceptable to me and shows lack of honesty from the owner and the GM when they promised people would be held accountable. They lied, and they weren't. Maybe dream trade scenarios didn't develop, but this team chose to bring back Ullmark, Rodrigues, Girgensons, McCabe, Larsson, Ellie. They choose not to use a buyout on Scandella, Okposo, Bogo. They hung the whole thing on a coach who got here after half these terrible players and called it a day.

Maybe in July you could call me negative. Now it's september, and I call you insane.
- matty12345

buyouts are not in botterill's dna

Timeline:

1.) Acquired Montour - Top 4 D man. He was only part of the team for a short period of time. We were already out of the playoffs. This essentially kicked off the off season makeover.
2.) Fire Housley - Intimidate upgrade (a coach is on the roster)
3.) Hire Krueger - Jury will be out for a while but i think we all feel pretty good about this right now.
4.) Signed Skinner - This roster could have lost potentially 40 goals.
5.) Acquired Miller - Playoff experience - Solid middle to bottom pairing D man. (3-5 guy)
6.) Acquire Vesey - Big player, strong skater, should improve scoring depth
7.) Signed Mojo - Great contract, still a middle 6 impact player, playoff experience abundant.
8.) Clearly won a trade to acquire Joker for a Joker..haha..Nylander was going nowhere with this organization. This trade could pay huge dividends in the future.

Its clear that competition in this year's camp was a key point. I DO NOT believe anyone's job is safe. Also, you aren't going to get rid of bad players via trade. Bad players will be waived at the conclusion of camp i.e. Larsson & Sobatka if they don't earn a job. Why would you waive them before? You wouldn't. Larsson is likely 4C unless he is displaced by Asplund. You had to sign him in case no one else was ready yet.

Am I missing anything? This is a lot of change in a 5 month window.

How much more could have been done, minus trading Risto, to this roster in that amount of time without leveraging the future AND the cap?????
- Bufsaints8

In terms of roster turnover - which is how I'm going to measure "roster surgery" - this is really only five moves. But even at five that's a pretty solid number on a 23 man active roster.

And that presumes that none of the vets lose their jobs to the youngins.

buyouts are not in botterill's dna
- Michael Pachla

Nor should they be with the cap situation they are in. They don't need them.

I meant we'll see what the season results bear out.

It certainly feels like the ship has sailed on a trade with camp opening tomorrow. Idk the stats on major trades during training camp, but they seem very rare based on what I can remember
- jcragcrumple

No, no.
The big trades all take place after free agency and during training camp.


I'm saying this just to jinx myself such that a Risto trade actually comes to fruition.

Timeline:

1.) Acquired Montour - Top 4 D man. He was only part of the team for a short period of time. We were already out of the playoffs. This essentially kicked off the off season makeover.
2.) Fire Housley - Intimidate upgrade (a coach is on the roster)
3.) Hire Krueger - Jury will be out for a while but i think we all feel pretty good about this right now.
4.) Signed Skinner - This roster could have lost potentially 40 goals.
5.) Acquired Miller - Playoff experience - Solid middle to bottom pairing D man. (3-5 guy)
6.) Acquire Vesey - Big player, strong skater, should improve scoring depth
7.) Signed Mojo - Great contract, still a middle 6 impact player, playoff experience abundant.
8.) Clearly won a trade to acquire Joker for a Joker..haha..Nylander was going nowhere with this organization. This trade could pay huge dividends in the future.

Its clear that competition in this year's camp was a key point. I DO NOT believe anyone's job is safe. Also, you aren't going to get rid of bad players via trade. Bad players will be waived at the conclusion of camp i.e. Larsson & Sobatka if they don't earn a job. Why would you waive them before? You wouldn't. Larsson is likely 4C unless he is displaced by Asplund. You had to sign him in case no one else was ready yet.

Am I missing anything? This is a lot of change in a 5 month window.

How much more could have been done, minus trading Risto, to this roster in that amount of time without leveraging the future AND the cap?????
- Bufsaints8

That's actually a fair question. I'm not trying to hate indiscriminately here. What would have needed to have happened to have made me happy? I'll try to keep this to realistic things I think could reasonably have been achieved.

1. Trade Risto for...anything. I don't care what the return is here. In my opinion he is bad at hockey and he isn't even one of our six best defensemen. If I can get a middle six forward for him, awesome. First round pick? Sure, I'll do that too. A nice prospect? Sold. I am at least consistent in that if I think he has no value on this team, I don't expect much back in return for him.
2. Do not resign Larsson or Girgensons, Both have been here for multiple coaches, both cannot generate offense. Both at best are fourth liners. Fourth liners should be players with A) promise to become 1st, 2nd, or 3rd liners, or B) physical players, big players, or players who present matchup problems for other teams fourth lines. Larsson and Girgensons do none of these things, they are not worth paying more than minimums to. If I can't add scoring to my first line or second line, I can at least improve my depth on my third and fourth lines, and the sabres chose to bring back a very poor fourth line, giving them a raise.
3. So now I've cleared 8.55 million dollars. Lets say Risto Larsson and Girgs are replaced with Routsoleinen, Joker, and Asplund (or someone else similar wins the jobs like Oglevie, Pekar, Smith, Lazar, Cozens, Etc.). That's 2.7 million. Leaves me with 5.8 million in space to add...whatever you want, honestly. Trade for someone on a team with cap issues, sign Gardiner, whatever. Add a quality player to this roster.
4. Bring in a third goalie to compete for one of the two jobs. The goaltending last year was unnacceptable. Go get a decent 2-4 million dollar goalie. Trade Ullmark or Hutton if you need to, or send one to Rochester, but don't go into the season with the exact same duo that killed you last year.
5. Waive Sobotka. He was by most accounts and charts one of the very worst forwards in all the NHL last year. He is only going to be taking time in camp from other players more deserving. Sure, you can always do this later, but later doesn't send a message. Waive him immediately and signal that lazy players won't be tolerated.

Imagine going into camp with 4-5 forwards gone, Risto gone, a new goalie, and a new coach. Suddenly that's a third of the roster. That's huge progress. It shows jobs aren't safe. I can at least look and see a group of players were held accountable for last year, instead of giving them raises.

In terms of roster turnover - which is how I'm going to measure "roster surgery" - this is really only five moves. But even at five that's a pretty solid number on a 23 man active roster.

And that presumes that none of the vets lose their jobs to the youngins.
- Der Kaiser

Montour was acquired in the previous league year and played a decent amount. I dont think that should be counted. It's miller, Vesey, Mojo and Joker (may play) in, Pommer and Moulson out. The rest is intra-organizational shuffling.

That feels light, considering how much they sucked. It also seemingly implies that Botterill put a lot of that on Housley, based on his ouster and the lack of a meaningful shakeup.

I have a theory that I have no actual evidence for: If Botterill knew he would get Joker, either the Miller or Montour trade wouldn't have happened, and he would have targeted a forward instead