Timeline:

1.) Acquired Montour - Top 4 D man. He was only part of the team for a short period of time. We were already out of the playoffs. This essentially kicked off the off season makeover.
2.) Fire Housley - Intimidate upgrade (a coach is on the roster)
3.) Hire Krueger - Jury will be out for a while but i think we all feel pretty good about this right now.
4.) Signed Skinner - This roster could have lost potentially 40 goals.
5.) Acquired Miller - Playoff experience - Solid middle to bottom pairing D man. (3-5 guy)
6.) Acquire Vesey - Big player, strong skater, should improve scoring depth
7.) Signed Mojo - Great contract, still a middle 6 impact player, playoff experience abundant.
8.) Clearly won a trade to acquire Joker for a Joker..haha..Nylander was going nowhere with this organization. This trade could pay huge dividends in the future.

Its clear that competition in this year's camp was a key point. I DO NOT believe anyone's job is safe. Also, you aren't going to get rid of bad players via trade. Bad players will be waived at the conclusion of camp i.e. Larsson & Sobatka if they don't earn a job. Why would you waive them before? You wouldn't. Larsson is likely 4C unless he is displaced by Asplund. You had to sign him in case no one else was ready yet.

Am I missing anything? This is a lot of change in a 5 month window.

How much more could have been done, minus trading Risto, to this roster in that amount of time without leveraging the future AND the cap?????
- Bufsaints8

A+ post

Detroit would absolutely hate it. For a multitude of reasons.
- Feds91Stammer

there was alot of talk that yzerman wanted risto in tampa so seems to reason he my also have interest in having him come to detroit?

Montour was acquired in the previous league year and played a decent amount. I dont think that should be counted. It's miller, Vesey, Mojo and Joker (may play) in, Pommer and Moulson out. The rest is intra-organizational shuffling.

That feels light, considering how much they sucked. It also seemingly implies that Botterill put a lot of that on Housley, based on his ouster and the lack of a meaningful shakeup.

I have a theory that I have no actual evidence for: If Botterill knew he would get Joker, either the Miller or Montour trade wouldn't have happened, and he would have targeted a forward instead
- jcragcrumple

We should all be able to agree we won't know who winds up out until the roster is finalized. There are a number of bottom six vet guys who should be at risk to lose their gigs to the kiddos.

Montour was acquired in the previous league year and played a decent amount. I dont think that should be counted. It's miller, Vesey, Mojo and Joker (may play) in, Pommer and Moulson out. The rest is intra-organizational shuffling.

That feels light, considering how much they sucked. It also seemingly implies that Botterill put a lot of that on Housley, based on his ouster and the lack of a meaningful shakeup.

I have a theory that I have no actual evidence for: If Botterill knew he would get Joker, either the Miller or Montour trade wouldn't have happened, and he would have targeted a forward instead
- jcragcrumple

The promise of 'roster surgery' came after Montour.

Moulson has been gone for almost two years. His contract came off, but he wasn't taking a roster spot.

So really, it's Pominville out (maybe, could still sign).

We should all be able to agree we won't know who winds up out until the roster is finalized. There are a number of bottom six vet guys who should be at risk to lose their gigs to the kiddos.
- Der Kaiser

No

Timeline:

1.) Acquired Montour - Top 4 D man. He was only part of the team for a short period of time. We were already out of the playoffs. This essentially kicked off the off season makeover.
2.) Fire Housley - Intimidate upgrade (a coach is on the roster)
3.) Hire Krueger - Jury will be out for a while but i think we all feel pretty good about this right now.
4.) Signed Skinner - This roster could have lost potentially 40 goals.
5.) Acquired Miller - Playoff experience - Solid middle to bottom pairing D man. (3-5 guy)
6.) Acquire Vesey - Big player, strong skater, should improve scoring depth
7.) Signed Mojo - Great contract, still a middle 6 impact player, playoff experience abundant.
8.) Clearly won a trade to acquire Joker for a Joker..haha..Nylander was going nowhere with this organization. This trade could pay huge dividends in the future.

Its clear that competition in this year's camp was a key point. I DO NOT believe anyone's job is safe. Also, you aren't going to get rid of bad players via trade. Bad players will be waived at the conclusion of camp i.e. Larsson & Sobatka if they don't earn a job. Why would you waive them before? You wouldn't. Larsson is likely 4C unless he is displaced by Asplund. You had to sign him in case no one else was ready yet.

Am I missing anything? This is a lot of change in a 5 month window.

A

How much more could have been done, minus trading Risto, to this roster in that amount of time without leveraging the future AND the cap?????
- Bufsaints8

Great post. Bringing back Lockport Larry and girgs for one year doesn’t really hurt the Sabres either. It’s not a big deal.

Have Risto back isn’t a big deal either. Our offense still needs help big time

Montour was acquired in the previous league year and played a decent amount. I dont think that should be counted. It's miller, Vesey, Mojo and Joker (may play) in, Pommer and Moulson out. The rest is intra-organizational shuffling.

That feels light, considering how much they sucked. It also seemingly implies that Botterill put a lot of that on Housley, based on his ouster and the lack of a meaningful shakeup.

I have a theory that I have no actual evidence for: If Botterill knew he would get Joker, either the Miller or Montour trade wouldn't have happened, and he would have targeted a forward instead
- jcragcrumple

So we're just supposed to dismiss Goalofson because he came up from the minors? When all is said and done almost a third of the roster will be different / better.

So we're just supposed to dismiss Goalofson because he came up from the minors? When all is said and done almost a third of the roster will be different / better.
- Slump Buster

ONLY ONE PLAYER HAS LEFT THE BUILDING BUT MIGHT BE BACK!!!!!!

We should all be able to agree we won't know who winds up out until the roster is finalized. There are a number of bottom six vet guys who should be at risk to lose their gigs to the kiddos.
- Der Kaiser

Yeah, true. I'm pretty skeptical on that, though. Sobotka will probably get the ax for the forwards. I'm not expecting anything beyond that at the moment though

ONLY ONE PLAYER HAS LEFT THE BUILDING BUT MIGHT BE BACK!!!!!!
- jochfr

Caps Lock is on.

Caps Lock is on.
- buffalofan19

I'M WELL AWARE

That's actually a fair question. I'm not trying to hate indiscriminately here. What would have needed to have happened to have made me happy? I'll try to keep this to realistic things I think could reasonably have been achieved.

1. Trade Risto for...anything. I don't care what the return is here. In my opinion he is bad at hockey and he isn't even one of our six best defensemen. If I can get a middle six forward for him, awesome. First round pick? Sure, I'll do that too. A nice prospect? Sold. I am at least consistent in that if I think he has no value on this team, I don't expect much back in return for him.
2. Do not resign Larsson or Girgensons, Both have been here for multiple coaches, both cannot generate offense. Both at best are fourth liners. Fourth liners should be players with A) promise to become 1st, 2nd, or 3rd liners, or B) physical players, big players, or players who present matchup problems for other teams fourth lines. Larsson and Girgensons do none of these things, they are not worth paying more than minimums to. If I can't add scoring to my first line or second line, I can at least improve my depth on my third and fourth lines, and the sabres chose to bring back a very poor fourth line, giving them a raise.
3. So now I've cleared 8.55 million dollars. Lets say Risto Larsson and Girgs are replaced with Routsoleinen, Joker, and Asplund (or someone else similar wins the jobs like Oglevie, Pekar, Smith, Lazar, Cozens, Etc.). That's 2.7 million. Leaves me with 5.8 million in space to add...whatever you want, honestly. Trade for someone on a team with cap issues, sign Gardiner, whatever. Add a quality player to this roster.
4. Bring in a third goalie to compete for one of the two jobs. The goaltending last year was unnacceptable. Go get a decent 2-4 million dollar goalie. Trade Ullmark or Hutton if you need to, or send one to Rochester, but don't go into the season with the exact same duo that killed you last year.
5. Waive Sobotka. He was by most accounts and charts one of the very worst forwards in all the NHL last year. He is only going to be taking time in camp from other players more deserving. Sure, you can always do this later, but later doesn't send a message. Waive him immediately and signal that lazy players won't be tolerated.

Imagine going into camp with 4-5 forwards gone, Risto gone, a new goalie, and a new coach. Suddenly that's a third of the roster. That's huge progress. It shows jobs aren't safe. I can at least look and see a group of players were held accountable for last year, instead of giving them raises.
- matty12345

i'm trying to remain patient , and believe we still need to throughout training camp to see what cuts/waivers and trades will be made. Three more weeks.

The moves that drove me nuts were the re-signing of the Larry Twins. There is absolutely no need for them to be here.
Some say it was to create a competition for those spots, and not just hand those jobs to kids...make them work for it.
Others contend they are good at their assignment of taking heavy D-zone starts and then flip the ice. No argument there, they did that, not much else but that.

I think there would be tremendous competition without them having been resigned, from the likes of Wilson, Smith, Asplund, Sobotka and others.
Asplund is likely an upgrade to Larry and Wilson is as good if not better. than Girgs. Sobotka can go back to the KHL.

Now, they have a self-imposed problem to deal with. It is a head-scratcher for sure.

So we're just supposed to dismiss Goalofson because he came up from the minors? When all is said and done almost a third of the roster will be different / better.
- Slump Buster

I'm not saying Botterill has done nothing.

It is also entirely fair to question whether he's done enough until we see the product.

I'm also guessing 90% of the people here would have said more changes would have happened this summer if you had asked them in April

So we're just supposed to dismiss Goalofson because he came up from the minors? When all is said and done almost a third of the roster will be different / better.
- Slump Buster

Yeah this argument is getting super frustrating

- They changed the coach
- The entire top pair will be different considering It was Risto/Scandella to start last year, and remained through a lot of the suckiness
- Added 3 top nine forwards in Olofsson/Vesey/Mojo
- Added Miller and Jokiharju on defense after getting Montour last year

The narrative not a lot has changed is bonkers.

Every single team has a few undesirables

Yeah this argument is getting super frustrating

- They changed the coach
- The entire top pair will be different considering It was Risto/Scandella to start last year, and remained through a lot of the suckiness
- Added 3 top nine forwards in Olofsson/Vesey/Mojo
- Added Miller and Jokiharju on defense after getting Montour last year

The narrative not a lot has changed is bonkers.

Every single team has a few undesirables
- OneKaneOneCup

Yeah this argument is getting super frustrating

- They changed the coach
- The entire top pair will be different considering It was Risto/Scandella to start last year, and remained through a lot of the suckiness
- Added 3 top nine forwards in Olofsson/Vesey/Mojo
- Added Miller and Jokiharju on defense after getting Montour last year

The narrative not a lot has changed is bonkers.

Every single team has a few undesirables
- OneKaneOneCup

But do they have 7(+) like the Sabres?

Yeah this argument is getting super frustrating

- They changed the coach
- The entire top pair will be different considering It was Risto/Scandella to start last year, and remained through a lot of the suckiness
- Added 3 top nine forwards in Olofsson/Vesey/Mojo
- Added Miller and Jokiharju on defense after getting Montour last year

The narrative not a lot has changed is bonkers.

Every single team has a few undesirables
- OneKaneOneCup

This message board has its share.

Yeah this argument is getting super frustrating

- They changed the coach
- The entire top pair will be different considering It was Risto/Scandella to start last year, and remained through a lot of the suckiness
- Added 3 top nine forwards in Olofsson/Vesey/Mojo
- Added Miller and Jokiharju on defense after getting Montour last year

The narrative not a lot has changed is bonkers.

Every single team has a few undesirables
- OneKaneOneCup

Not to mention that I think even botts would admit that he isn't where he wants to be. It's hard to completely overhaul the team when we don't have a lot of tradeable assets. I think all of his trades within the last calendar year have been fantastic.

That's actually a fair question. I'm not trying to hate indiscriminately here. What would have needed to have happened to have made me happy? I'll try to keep this to realistic things I think could reasonably have been achieved.

1. Trade Risto for...anything. I don't care what the return is here. In my opinion he is bad at hockey and he isn't even one of our six best defensemen. If I can get a middle six forward for him, awesome. First round pick? Sure, I'll do that too. A nice prospect? Sold. I am at least consistent in that if I think he has no value on this team, I don't expect much back in return for him.
2. Do not resign Larsson or Girgensons, Both have been here for multiple coaches, both cannot generate offense. Both at best are fourth liners. Fourth liners should be players with A) promise to become 1st, 2nd, or 3rd liners, or B) physical players, big players, or players who present matchup problems for other teams fourth lines. Larsson and Girgensons do none of these things, they are not worth paying more than minimums to. If I can't add scoring to my first line or second line, I can at least improve my depth on my third and fourth lines, and the sabres chose to bring back a very poor fourth line, giving them a raise.
3. So now I've cleared 8.55 million dollars. Lets say Risto Larsson and Girgs are replaced with Routsoleinen, Joker, and Asplund (or someone else similar wins the jobs like Oglevie, Pekar, Smith, Lazar, Cozens, Etc.). That's 2.7 million. Leaves me with 5.8 million in space to add...whatever you want, honestly. Trade for someone on a team with cap issues, sign Gardiner, whatever. Add a quality player to this roster.
4. Bring in a third goalie to compete for one of the two jobs. The goaltending last year was unnacceptable. Go get a decent 2-4 million dollar goalie. Trade Ullmark or Hutton if you need to, or send one to Rochester, but don't go into the season with the exact same duo that killed you last year.
5. Waive Sobotka. He was by most accounts and charts one of the very worst forwards in all the NHL last year. He is only going to be taking time in camp from other players more deserving. Sure, you can always do this later, but later doesn't send a message. Waive him immediately and signal that lazy players won't be tolerated.

Imagine going into camp with 4-5 forwards gone, Risto gone, a new goalie, and a new coach. Suddenly that's a third of the roster. That's huge progress. It shows jobs aren't safe. I can at least look and see a group of players were held accountable for last year, instead of giving them raises.
- matty12345

I really like this response..I don't agree with all of this but I can definitely see where you are coming from.

- I think Risto still has value, probably better value somewhere else at this point and I am hoping they trade him as well. I would even be happy with a real nice prospect but only if they had a chance to crack the lineup right away.
- I also would have been fine if they had not resigned Girgs and Larsson, however, I do think they would have had to use cap space to at least fill one of those voids via free agency which probably would have been more money because we don't known if Aspund as ready yet. Also, that player, if they were decent, probably wouldn't have signed without some kind of assurance they'd be on the roster. A fourth line of young guys won't be any better.
- You already have 2 goalies who are supposed to be competing for ice time. A better team should improve their numbers so I don't really see the need in another goalie. Plus if you get a goalie on a 1 year deal he probably isn't going to be good anyways. You can argue we added Hammond. UPL is the future.
- I don't see Sobatka on the roster but I also think there is value on making another player force Botts' hand in waiving him.

Yeah this argument is getting super frustrating

- They changed the coach
- The entire top pair will be different considering It was Risto/Scandella to start last year, and remained through a lot of the suckiness
- Added 3 top nine forwards in Olofsson/Vesey/Mojo
- Added Miller and Jokiharju on defense after getting Montour last year

The narrative not a lot has changed is bonkers.

Every single team has a few undesirables
- OneKaneOneCup

10 UFA's on this roster. Obviously the plan all along was to make the aggressive play for the playoffs starting next year. However he couldn't communicate it publicly because people would go nuts including many on those forum. Personally, I like what he has done in setting us up for the future. To me, if we get to 85 to 90 points and coach Ralph seems to be "the one" then i think this will have been a successful year. Next year it must be a "go for it" mode regarding the playoffs.

1 simple trick to make your team better

Red wings fans HATE this
- jcragcrumple

*Click*

Aww gd it, it's a trojan.

That's actually a fair question. I'm not trying to hate indiscriminately here. What would have needed to have happened to have made me happy? I'll try to keep this to realistic things I think could reasonably have been achieved.

1. Trade Risto for...anything. I don't care what the return is here. In my opinion he is bad at hockey and he isn't even one of our six best defensemen. If I can get a middle six forward for him, awesome. First round pick? Sure, I'll do that too. A nice prospect? Sold. I am at least consistent in that if I think he has no value on this team, I don't expect much back in return for him.
2. Do not resign Larsson or Girgensons, Both have been here for multiple coaches, both cannot generate offense. Both at best are fourth liners. Fourth liners should be players with A) promise to become 1st, 2nd, or 3rd liners, or B) physical players, big players, or players who present matchup problems for other teams fourth lines. Larsson and Girgensons do none of these things, they are not worth paying more than minimums to. If I can't add scoring to my first line or second line, I can at least improve my depth on my third and fourth lines, and the sabres chose to bring back a very poor fourth line, giving them a raise.
3. So now I've cleared 8.55 million dollars. Lets say Risto Larsson and Girgs are replaced with Routsoleinen, Joker, and Asplund (or someone else similar wins the jobs like Oglevie, Pekar, Smith, Lazar, Cozens, Etc.). That's 2.7 million. Leaves me with 5.8 million in space to add...whatever you want, honestly. Trade for someone on a team with cap issues, sign Gardiner, whatever. Add a quality player to this roster.
4. Bring in a third goalie to compete for one of the two jobs. The goaltending last year was unnacceptable. Go get a decent 2-4 million dollar goalie. Trade Ullmark or Hutton if you need to, or send one to Rochester, but don't go into the season with the exact same duo that killed you last year.
5. Waive Sobotka. He was by most accounts and charts one of the very worst forwards in all the NHL last year. He is only going to be taking time in camp from other players more deserving. Sure, you can always do this later, but later doesn't send a message. Waive him immediately and signal that lazy players won't be tolerated.

Imagine going into camp with 4-5 forwards gone, Risto gone, a new goalie, and a new coach. Suddenly that's a third of the roster. That's huge progress. It shows jobs aren't safe. I can at least look and see a group of players were held accountable for last year, instead of giving them raises.
- matty12345

You've given me lymphoma.

Now, they have a self-imposed problem to deal with. It is a head-scratcher for sure.
- IonSabres

Botteril has stated that he has multiple scenarios where they can operate under the cap this fall. He sounds like he is totally comfortable paying any of the vets to play in Rochester if warranted.

Botteril has stated that he has multiple scenarios where they can operate under the cap this fall. He sounds like he is totally comfortable paying any of the vets to play in Rochester if warranted.
- seedy

The current roster allows for zero full time promotions. Last year wasn't likely to see one, but this year, thinking this year will be a tad different.

10 UFA's on this roster. Obviously the plan all along was to make the aggressive play for the playoffs starting next year. However he couldn't communicate it publicly because people would go nuts including many on those forum. Personally, I like what he has done in setting us up for the future. To me, if we get to 85 to 90 points and coach Ralph seems to be "the one" then i think this will have been a successful year. Next year it must be a "go for it" mode regarding the playoffs.
- SabreWest

Then the question is: why? Why wait?

NJ, Philly, Fla. They're all potential candidates to leap frog us.

One more RW/C and I'd be way more confident. As it stands now with the log jam on D, and with sketchy RW/C, I think the better play would have been to snag a winger instead of Miller or Montour. Or another move coupled with that.

One more potential 50 point winger this summer. That's what I would have liked