Ask Kyle Dubas...Chia set a precedent when he traded Hall for a D-man. All other GM's must follow suite or lose their GM-Hood. Now before you point out that KD obtained better talent than Chia did consider this. There is *almost* no way Leafs can keep Barrie next year. So essentiall they traded Kadri, Rosen and another peice for Kerfott, 1 year of Barrie and hope that they make a run for a SC

So, Laine for anything more than Niskanen would get Chevy uninvited from this years GM Christmas party
- Turnitaround

Where are you getting this from? They will have minimum 16 million in cap. Yes, they can keep him.

No one will repeat Chia's mistake so there is not a set market for a Dman.

Laine like Kessel (at the same age), both play the same position, game breaking player with a polarising attitude, 2 first rounders I would think is the precedent price.
- Alexzanki

A trade from 10 years ago means nothing. And you have to find a GM in 2019 who wants to pay that anyways.

Where are you getting this from? They will have minimum 16 million in cap. Yes, they can keep him.

No one will repeat Chia's mistake so there is not a set market for a Dman.
- RogerRoeper

Look at the big picture. They have once defenseman signed that is likely going to start the season this year. They're going to lose the LTIR exemption for Horton and Clarkson. Sure they can keep Barrie if they choose but they're losing someone.

Ghost and a higher prospect like Ratcliffe will get you Laine.
- SMS4016

Ratcliffe could be a nice player one day, but he’s not exactly a higher prospect.

The Jets hang up the phone if we offer that.

Look at the big picture. They have once defenseman signed that is likely going to start the season this year. They're going to lose the LTIR exemption for Horton and Clarkson. Sure they can keep Barrie if they choose but they're losing someone.
- MJL

leaf fans hear this EVERY year! Brian Burke went on tv and guaranteed they don't have the cap to keep Nylander and he'd be goen by the draft. We also heard Marnerw ould sign offersheets and Marleau and Zaitsev can't be moved.

The cap, according to Friendman look like it's jumping 3+ million next summer.

They may move someone, but if any team can afford to move a forward it's the Leafs.

BTW, Sandin and Lilljegren are also signed next year and of course no chance Dermott doesn't stay

These "Doom and Gloom" predictions never work out.

leaf fans hear this EVERY year! Brian Burke went on tv and guaranteed they don't have the cap to keep Nylander and he'd be goen by the draft. We also heard Marnerw ould sign offersheets and Marleau and Zaitsev can't be moved.

The cap, according to Friendman look like it's jumping 3+ million next summer.

They may move someone, but if any team can afford to move a forward it's the Leafs.

BTW, Sandin and Lilljegren are also signed next year and of course no chance Dermott doesn't stay

These "Doom and Gloom" predictions never work out.
- RogerRoeper

You know, it's really simple math. The Leafs won't be able to keep everyone. Sure young players can make the jump but are you telling me that the Leafs, who are looking to contend are going to give a couple of 20 year old top 4 minutes on defense? 3 of the Leafs top 4 defenseman are going to be UFA players.

Where are you getting this from? They will have minimum 16 million in cap. Yes, they can keep him.

No one will repeat Chia's mistake so there is not a set market for a Dman.
- RogerRoeper

I suppose anything is possible. But is it probable? those are 2 very different things. Here is how it has to go for the math to work out my friend...

As it currently stands, they would have a MINIMUM of $15.2M if the cap doesn't go up next season. Best case scenario the cap rises the full 5% allowable under the CBA then they have $19.275 to work with but that have committed to a total of 12 players most of whom are forwards. they still have to fill out the roster. Reily is the only D-man in their top 5 with a contract. Assuming that Dermott comes back for league minimum (and that's a low probability) + Sandin and Liljegren are promoted (ELC) -that's roughly $2.62M ....at best that is eaten up from the cap thus leaving $16.655M. they need to sign an entire 4th line + a backup goalie. Once again, assuming that these 4 spots/players sign league minimum deals, they would use up $2.8M of the remaining cap leaving $13.855M ....and that is how much you have left just to have a shot at signing BOTH Muzzin and Barrie.

NOW... rumour has it that Barrie wants $8M aav. why wouldn't he want that if he has another good season. This is possible with the weapons that the Leafs have up front. We already know that the Norris Trophy winning D-men (Burns, Doughty, Karlsson, PK, Hedman) are getting $9.5 to $11M aav. Therefore its a reasonable argument to make that $8M aav is a fair contract for someone who can match the output of one or more of those players. Even if he takes a discount its unlikely to be less then a $7M AAV

Muzzin is going to look for a raise over his $4M aav contract. We'll have to see how a full season with the Leafs goes for him but I see no evidence that he will regress. Therefore its logical to conclude he will get a raise. I don't see him taking less than $5.5M aav

Add that all up and they barely squeeze in under the cap with $1.35M to spare.
Now all it takes is for 1 of the above 11 hypothetical situations to not work out in the Leafs favour and the result is they wont be able to bring back one or both of Muzzin and Barrie

As much as the Trolls beat on EK - I was literally on the phone with him (and no I am only an NHL GM in my twisted mind) when he told me Peter Forsberg was coming to Philly. Three hours later - it was real. So not EVERYTHING he says is made up.

WPG is in BIG TROUBLE if Big Buff goes the way of Andrew Luck. Trouba and Myers and Buff being gone would leave that team in a scary place. Would big Morin somewhat fill the shoes of Buff? Perhaps they would want Sanheim or Meyers (fine by me)? What more would they want? How would you get Liane signed? With what money? Would Konecny go? Would that be enough cap space? I am not sure but I would be ALL OVER THIS if I were Fletch.

The Flyers have the key, young and cheap pieces that could stop the bleeding for WPG. No question.

Laine in Orange and Black literally makes the Flyers a NOW team. Window officially open.
- flyersfaninLA

Momma Ek, hello

As much as the Trolls beat on EK - I was literally on the phone with him (and no I am only an NHL GM in my twisted mind) when he told me Peter Forsberg was coming to Philly. Three hours later - it was real. So not EVERYTHING he says is made up.

WPG is in BIG TROUBLE if Big Buff goes the way of Andrew Luck. Trouba and Myers and Buff being gone would leave that team in a scary place. Would big Morin somewhat fill the shoes of Buff? Perhaps they would want Sanheim or Meyers (fine by me)? What more would they want? How would you get Liane signed? With what money? Would Konecny go? Would that be enough cap space? I am not sure but I would be ALL OVER THIS if I were Fletch.

The Flyers have the key, young and cheap pieces that could stop the bleeding for WPG. No question.

Laine in Orange and Black literally makes the Flyers a NOW team. Window officially open.
- flyersfaninLA

Not being a nasty (richard), but I don’t think Laine adds to the chemistry in a good way. Even a team made up of 12 Gretzky’s and 6 Ray Bourque’s, would get the crap kicked out of them. It takes all kinds of players in the right situations to be a cup winner. Adding a player of Laine’s ability would be great, but the cost doesn’t seem possible without gutting the team, and I really don’t want his baggage in the locker room. I think he’s handled himself like a whiny, malcontent. I’ll pass, unless it’s a deal too good to pass up.

You know, it's really simple math. The Leafs won't be able to keep everyone. Sure young players can make the jump but are you telling me that the Leafs, who are looking to contend are going to give a couple of 20 year old top 4 minutes on defense? 3 of the Leafs top 4 defenseman are going to be UFA players.
- MJL

I do not believe the Leafs can keep Muzzin or want to. Barrie? Sure they can.

I suppose anything is possible. But is it probable? those are 2 very different things. Here is how it has to go for the math to work out my friend...

As it currently stands, they would have a MINIMUM of $15.2M if the cap doesn't go up next season. Best case scenario the cap rises the full 5% allowable under the CBA then they have $19.275 to work with but that have committed to a total of 12 players most of whom are forwards. they still have to fill out the roster. Reily is the only D-man in their top 5 with a contract. Assuming that Dermott comes back for league minimum (and that's a low probability) + Sandin and Liljegren are promoted (ELC) -that's roughly $2.62M ....at best that is eaten up from the cap thus leaving $16.655M. they need to sign an entire 4th line + a backup goalie. Once again, assuming that these 4 spots/players sign league minimum deals, they would use up $2.8M of the remaining cap leaving $13.855M ....and that is how much you have left just to have a shot at signing BOTH Muzzin and Barrie.

NOW... rumour has it that Barrie wants $8M aav. why wouldn't he want that if he has another good season. This is possible with the weapons that the Leafs have up front. We already know that the Norris Trophy winning D-men (Burns, Doughty, Karlsson, PK, Hedman) are getting $9.5 to $11M aav. Therefore its a reasonable argument to make that $8M aav is a fair contract for someone who can match the output of one or more of those players. Even if he takes a discount its unlikely to be less then a $7M AAV

Muzzin is going to look for a raise over his $4M aav contract. We'll have to see how a full season with the Leafs goes for him but I see no evidence that he will regress. Therefore its logical to conclude he will get a raise. I don't see him taking less than $5.5M aav

Add that all up and they barely squeeze in under the cap with $1.35M to spare.
Now all it takes is for 1 of the above 11 hypothetical situations to not work out in the Leafs favour and the result is they wont be able to bring back one or both of Muzzin and Barrie
- Turnitaround

The cap has never NOT gone up in it's history. It's going up, guaranteed.

And who says they want Muzzin back? You said they have no $ for Barrie. That's b.S.

Muzzin is quite simply not a guy who fits with Dubas' plan. And BTW, expect massive interest in NYlander after he has a career year and only makes 6.9

Leafs are screwed and in "Cap Hell". We get it. We hear these predictions every summer. Those predictions bombed this summer.

The Jets are in trouble, after losing basically their whole defence in one off season (except Morrissey), and have 2 very good players that are holding out. It does not look like Buff will be back either, nothing sinister just that he does not have the drive to play anymore, the game has taken its toll on his frame and his house is for sale.

The Jets are not in a position of power... especially if this goes into the regular season and the losing starts. The Jets are/ were built to win now. They have not drafted well outside the 1st round and their prospect pool is mediocre at best.
They need NHL caliber defence at reasonable contracts to win now not prospects.

So Ghost (NHL caliber and good contract) and Hagg (NHL caliber and cheap). Both can play RH defence. Not many teams could offer 2 Right side capable playing d-men. Maybe the Jets would then use the salary savings to go after Barrie or some other free URFA defence next summer.

The Flyers also need to make space to make this work, so they might require Van Reimsdyke to be included along with his $7 mil salary (PP specialist for PP specialist). If that is too much salary then maybe a third team needs to get involved... Colorado can afford JVR and help them with a strong push for a cup over the next few years. In return Winnipeg could ask for Timmins or Meloche both top RH Defenceman. Timmins has had concussion problems so he may be available.

If the 2 D and JVR does not get it done throw in a NHL capable center. The Jets are still looking for a second line Center... is it to early to give up on Patrick (Manitoba born)?

Flyers: Laine, Lowry

Winnipeg: Ghost, Hagg, van Reimsdyke, Patrick

The Flyers could replace Patrick with Laughton or Rubtsov or Vorobyev or Frost.
Lowry is a big body that could play anywhere on the bottom 3 lines and be a force. Jets would hate to lose him but Patrick has a ton of potential. Think about a line of Hayes 6’5” 216, Lowry 6’5” 211 and Radcliffe 6’5” 200.

leaf fans hear this EVERY year! Brian Burke went on tv and guaranteed they don't have the cap to keep Nylander and he'd be goen by the draft. We also heard Marnerw ould sign offersheets and Marleau and Zaitsev can't be moved.

The cap, according to Friendman look like it's jumping 3+ million next summer.

They may move someone, but if any team can afford to move a forward it's the Leafs.

BTW, Sandin and Lilljegren are also signed next year and of course no chance Dermott doesn't stay

These "Doom and Gloom" predictions never work out.
- RogerRoeper

Only three things are certain. Leaf fans get carried away declaring unlimited success for a team that has not won a playoff round since longer than many fans can remember. On the other hand, fans of other teams will go overboard and predict doom and gloom for any and everything the Leafs attempt. In the end, there is only one truth. Whatever the regular season brings, it means nothing. The Leafs will choke once the playoffs start. And, that is the first lesson that must not be forgotten until proven different.

The Jets are in trouble, after losing basically their whole defence in one off season (except Morrissey), and have 2 very good players that are holding out. It does not look like Buff will be back either, nothing sinister just that he does not have the drive to play anymore, the game has taken its toll on his frame and his house is for sale.

The Jets are not in a position of power... especially if this goes into the regular season and the losing starts. The Jets are/ were built to win now. They have not drafted well outside the 1st round and their prospect pool is mediocre at best.
They need NHL caliber defence at reasonable contracts to win now not prospects.

So Ghost (NHL caliber and good contract) and Hagg (NHL caliber and cheap). Both can play RH defence. Not many teams could offer 2 Right side capable playing d-men. Maybe the Jets would then use the salary savings to go after Barrie or some other free URFA defence next summer.

The Flyers also need to make space to make this work, so they might require Van Reimsdyke to be included along with his $7 mil salary (PP specialist for PP specialist). If that is too much salary then maybe a third team needs to get involved... Colorado can afford JVR and help them with a strong push for a cup over the next few years. In return Winnipeg could ask for Timmins or Meloche both top RH Defenceman. Timmins has had concussion problems so he may be available.

If the 2 D and JVR does not get it done throw in a NHL capable center. The Jets are still looking for a second line Center... is it to early to give up on Patrick (Manitoba born)?

Flyers: Laine, Lowry

Winnipeg: Ghost, Hagg, van Reimsdyke, Patrick

The Flyers could replace Patrick with Laughton or Rubtsov or Vorobyev or Frost.
Lowry is a big body that could play anywhere on the bottom 3 lines and be a force. Jets would hate to lose him but Patrick has a ton of potential. Think about a line of Hayes 6’5” 216, Lowry 6’5” 211 and Radcliffe 6’5” 200.
- Tommycasino

I don't see Winnipeg being interested in any of those players.

If the Jets trade Laine they will want a very high end prospect or top 10 draft pick coming back. Not a lot of teams are able to do that kind of deal. But there are a few obvious trade contenders with the prospect depth and recent picks such as the Rangers, Devils, Sabres, Senators and Canes. There are also some obvious Western Conference teams (LA and Colorado) but let's assume Winnipeg would not do a Western deal.

The idea of a young elite player being traded for multiple mid range talents is dead. Teams want equal value coming back on a good contract or they want the elite prospect.

In fact, I believe Winnipeg is toast in negotiations with Laine. Byfuglien's pending retirement has blown a hole in any discussions about trading Laine. The Jets now have the cap space to sign all their young guns to full value deals. If they hang close until Christmas they will find additional defensive pieces to set up for the playoffs.

I do not believe the Leafs can keep Muzzin or want to. Barrie? Sure they can.
- RogerRoeper

Okay, so who do they replace Muzzin with? A 20 year old kid?

The Jets are in trouble, after losing basically their whole defence in one off season (except Morrissey), and have 2 very good players that are holding out. It does not look like Buff will be back either, nothing sinister just that he does not have the drive to play anymore, the game has taken its toll on his frame and his house is for sale.

The Jets are not in a position of power... especially if this goes into the regular season and the losing starts. The Jets are/ were built to win now. They have not drafted well outside the 1st round and their prospect pool is mediocre at best.
They need NHL caliber defence at reasonable contracts to win now not prospects.

So Ghost (NHL caliber and good contract) and Hagg (NHL caliber and cheap). Both can play RH defence. Not many teams could offer 2 Right side capable playing d-men. Maybe the Jets would then use the salary savings to go after Barrie or some other free URFA defence next summer.

The Flyers also need to make space to make this work, so they might require Van Reimsdyke to be included along with his $7 mil salary (PP specialist for PP specialist). If that is too much salary then maybe a third team needs to get involved... Colorado can afford JVR and help them with a strong push for a cup over the next few years. In return Winnipeg could ask for Timmins or Meloche both top RH Defenceman. Timmins has had concussion problems so he may be available.

If the 2 D and JVR does not get it done throw in a NHL capable center. The Jets are still looking for a second line Center... is it to early to give up on Patrick (Manitoba born)?

Flyers: Laine, Lowry

Winnipeg: Ghost, Hagg, van Reimsdyke, Patrick

The Flyers could replace Patrick with Laughton or Rubtsov or Vorobyev or Frost.
Lowry is a big body that could play anywhere on the bottom 3 lines and be a force. Jets would hate to lose him but Patrick has a ton of potential. Think about a line of Hayes 6’5” 216, Lowry 6’5” 211 and Radcliffe 6’5” 200.
- Tommycasino

If the Jets aren't in a position of power then why did you suggest a deal that the Flyers would never accept?

I hope the Flyers give up a bunch to get him.
- BINGO!

There has been absolutely zero buzz, talk, chatter, innuendo, whispers, smoke signals, phone calls, reports, texts, indications, faxes, meetings, secret messages, proposals, hints, telegraphs, signs, clues or anything else related to a big trade between Philadelphia and Winnipeg.

Okay, so who do they replace Muzzin with? A 20 year old kid?
- MJL

How about finding a cheaper # or 4 D?

Only three things are certain. Leaf fans get carried away declaring unlimited success for a team that has not won a playoff round since longer than many fans can remember. On the other hand, fans of other teams will go overboard and predict doom and gloom for any and everything the Leafs attempt. In the end, there is only one truth. Whatever the regular season brings, it means nothing. The Leafs will choke once the playoffs start. And, that is the first lesson that must not be forgotten until proven different.
- spatso

All I know is this summer was not supposed to go anything like it did according to what I heard all year. This was THE YEAR of cap hell where guys would have to be moved out.

Nolan Patrick + Gostisbiere + 1st for Laine?

How about finding a cheaper # or 4 D?
- RogerRoeper

Okay who? What quality top 4 defenseman are you going to get cheaper?

Okay who? What quality top 4 defenseman are you going to get cheaper?
- MJL

They got Muzzin didn't they?

It's impossible to answer that because players will be available we don't know exist.

Maybe William Nylander has a monster year (I am betting eh will) and they trade him for a terrific return?

Lots of options and Leafs have a great management team.

The cap has never NOT gone up in it's history. It's going up, guaranteed.

And who says they want Muzzin back? You said they have no $ for Barrie. That's b.S.

Muzzin is quite simply not a guy who fits with Dubas' plan. And BTW, expect massive interest in NYlander after he has a career year and only makes 6.9

Leafs are screwed and in "Cap Hell". We get it. We hear these predictions every summer. Those predictions bombed this summer.
- RogerRoeper

Except it may not for 2 years. There were talks that the cap would stay the same for 2 years or marginally increase because of something to do with the Escrow and players not losing as much of they pay to it.

Except it may not for 2 years. There were talks that the cap would stay the same for 2 years or marginally increase because of something to do with the Escrow and players not losing as much of they pay to it.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Early reports are it's going up at least 3 million next year and the year after SEattle comes in. It's not staying the same or going down.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/...will-major-ripple-effect/






I know you want to believe that because it hurts the Leafs, but it's going up. Cap will be over 90 million in 3 years

This season’s ceiling was announced just days before July 1, and it was lower than previously expected. That was a disaster for most teams, and many of the middle-class players. If, for argument’s sake, we go to $83.5 next year and $85.5 the season after, the NHLPA should be able to inform its constituency in advance about what escrow is expected to be, given the average growth everyone is used to. That might be the best way to handle the players’ biggest concern. Apparently, the possibility of an $84.5–$86 million cap for next season was raised at the Board of Governors’ meeting, but I can see a more modest figure being put in place.

They got Muzzin didn't they?

It's impossible to answer that because players will be available we don't know exist.

Maybe William Nylander has a monster year (I am betting eh will) and they trade him for a terrific return?

Lots of options and Leafs have a great management team.
- RogerRoeper

But Dmen like Muzzin dont come at 4 mill anymore. Muzzin is at 4 mill because he signed a deal years ago when 4 mill was market value. You no longer get a guy like Muzzin for 4 mill. Good Dmen are making much more these days. There are always ways to make things work, yes trades can be made but trades also involve giving quality for quality. Trading a guy like Nylander will get you a good defensmen but you also lose Nylander who in your example was a big help to the team.

In terms of Cheap D the best you can hope for is a reclamation project, a guy who used to be good but dropped off and hope you can get him back on track or hope someone good gets bought out.

Thje other thing you have to consider are the other replacements. Yea you grabbed a bunch of league minimum players to fill the empty spots but are they currently at the same level as the people they replaced? Usually the answer is no.