But Dmen like Muzzin dont come at 4 mill anymore. Muzzin is at 4 mill because he signed a deal years ago when 4 mill was market value. You no longer get a guy like Muzzin for 4 mill. Good Dmen are making much more these days. There are always ways to make things work, yes trades can be made but trades also involve giving quality for quality. Trading a guy like Nylander will get you a good defensmen but you also lose Nylander who in your example was a big help to the team.

In terms of Cheap D the best you can hope for is a reclamation project, a guy who used to be good but dropped off and hope you can get him back on track or hope someone good gets bought out.

Thje other thing you have to consider are the other replacements. Yea you grabbed a bunch of league minimum players to fill the empty spots but are they currently at the same level as the people they replaced? Usually the answer is no.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Yes they do. LOL. Suddenly he's a superstar in this conversation.

But Dmen like Muzzin dont come at 4 mill anymore. Muzzin is at 4 mill because he signed a deal years ago when 4 mill was market value. You no longer get a guy like Muzzin for 4 mill. Good Dmen are making much more these days. There are always ways to make things work, yes trades can be made but trades also involve giving quality for quality. Trading a guy like Nylander will get you a good defensmen but you also lose Nylander who in your example was a big help to the team.

In terms of Cheap D the best you can hope for is a reclamation project, a guy who used to be good but dropped off and hope you can get him back on track or hope someone good gets bought out.

Thje other thing you have to consider are the other replacements. Yea you grabbed a bunch of league minimum players to fill the empty spots but are they currently at the same level as the people they replaced? Usually the answer is no.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Yes they do. LOL. Suddenly he's a superstar in this conversation.

Yes they do. LOL. Suddenly he's a superstar in this conversation.
- RogerRoeper

Your joking right? Comparables to Muzzin are guys like D.Hamilton, Edler, Faulk and Ekblad who are making 5.75-7.5 mill

Your joking right? Comparables to Muzzin are guys like D.Hamilton, Edler, Faulk and Ekblad who are making 5.75-7.5 mill
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

I don't feel those are his comparables at all.

I can list guys making 4-5 per that are better than Muzzin like Pesce.

I get it Leafs are doomed next summer just like they were this summer. They will have 16-18 million in cap.

Also, why would the Leafs want to keep MUzzin exactly? Give him a Tyler Myers contract in his 30's? He's not a guy Dubas likes to give big $$ too anyways.

I don't feel those are his comparables at all.

I can list guys making 4-5 per that are better than Muzzin like Pesce.

I get it Leafs are doomed next summer just like they were this summer. They will have 16-18 million in cap.

Also, why would the Leafs want to keep MUzzin exactly? Give him a Tyler Myers contract in his 30's? He's not a guy Dubas likes to give big $$ too anyways.
- RogerRoeper

Thats Pesce's 1st contract off his ELC at 24 years old. Not even close to comparable.....

Whether the Leafs want to keep Muzzin or not is not what we are debating. We are debating what his next contact will be, what a replacement D at his level would cost and I can guarantee it isnt going to be 4 mill.

Thats Pesce's 1st contract off his ELC at 24 years old. Not even close to comparable.....

Whether the Leafs want to keep Muzzin or not is not what we are debating. We are debating what his next contact will be, what a replacement D at his level would cost and I can guarantee it isnt going to be 4 mill.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

So Leafs can't trade for another top 4 D making 4-5 million? Of course they can.

You know, it's really simple math. The Leafs won't be able to keep everyone. Sure young players can make the jump but are you telling me that the Leafs, who are looking to contend are going to give a couple of 20 year old top 4 minutes on defense? 3 of the Leafs top 4 defenseman are going to be UFA players.
- MJL

It's been tried.

He doesn't get it.

It's been tried.

He doesn't get it.
- LordHumungous

I was told this summer the math was simple and Marner was signing a 13 million pffersheet, Nylander traded ETC. Instead Dubas added barrie at 2.75 cap hit...

Keep trying the same argument every year, maybe one time you'll be right. LOL

I get it next year Leafs are screwed and will have to trade a lot of guys. Gotcha. Never heard that one before...

So Leafs can't trade for another top 4 D making 4-5 million? Of course they can.
- RogerRoeper

Again, you are going off track, no one is saying the Leafs cant make a trade. Youare getting defensive for no reason. You are acting like the people are saying the Leafs are screwed and should just fold. That is not the case. People are saying they dont have the cap to keep Muzzin and Barrie. That is it! You are making this more than it has to be.

Yes trade is possible but again like I said, you have to give to receive and the team giving has to want to move the contract. Carolina is not going to want to move a guy like Pesce. Giving a guy like Nylander who is a top 6 winger is a significant loss. Let's not forget Dubas promised the guy he wouldnt trade him.

The point is Leafs need to make a change to the team to fill the team next season. That is the whole point. Just like when people were saying it with Chicago. Change isnt always a good thing and changes always need to be made when you play at the cap limit. This isnt only going to happen to the Leafs. It happens to a lot of teams.

Again, you are going off track, no one is saying the Leafs cant make a trade. Youare getting defensive for no reason. You are acting like the people are saying the Leafs are screwed and should just fold. That is not the case. People are saying they dont have the cap to keep Muzzin and Barrie. That is it! You are making this more than it has to be.

Yes trade is possible but again like I said, you have to give to receive and the team giving has to want to move the contract. Carolina is not going to want to move a guy like Pesce. Giving a guy like Nylander who is a top 6 winger is a significant loss. Let's not forget Dubas promised the guy he wouldnt trade him.

The point is Leafs need to make a change to the team to fill the team next season. That is the whole point. Just like when people were saying it with Chicago. Change isnt always a good thing and changes always need to be made when you play at the cap limit. This isnt only going to happen to the Leafs. It happens to a lot of teams.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

For the frecord I do not believe for a second Dubas will sign Muzzin. And it's not just cap space issue. He would reprsent the outlier of every player Dubas has kept long-term. Barrie fits, Muzzin does not. Too old, slow and lacking talent.

Nolan Patrick + Gostisbiere + 1st for Laine?
- mventres

How bout.....NO!!
I don’t want him or his brand of cancer anywhere near my locker room.

I’d like a younger Wayne Simmons type player, please!

It's been tried.

He doesn't get it.
- LordHumungous

yeah but mathing is hard, I mathed something wrong the other day on these boards.

They got Muzzin didn't they?

It's impossible to answer that because players will be available we don't know exist.

Maybe William Nylander has a monster year (I am betting eh will) and they trade him for a terrific return?

Lots of options and Leafs have a great management team.
- RogerRoeper

Yes and they had to trade for him and give up a first round pick and prospects. They aren't always readily available. In free agency, you have to overpay.

Now you're coming around and realizing with your suggestion of trading Nylander that they're going to lose someone. LOL