i don't beleive that to be the case at all.

Didn't dubas bring in arguably their toughest grittiest dman? Seems to fly in the face of the statement.
- burn

Yes he did. He also bought in Petan, Spezza, Shore, (not sure who suggested Mikheyev, seems like Babcock??), Barrie, Ceci and Kerfoot.

Wonder if he knew what Muzzin was about before trading for him? Seems awfully out of character.

As you correctly pointed out, it takes a whole team, not just one player (Muzzin)

It's the current narrative. Most can't even think for themselves. It's pretty pathetic.

Those same ones complaining about missing kadri to stick up for teammates are exactly the same ones that were ripping him saying to trade him for a bag of pucks because of the playoffs.

(All) Teammates should be sticking up for (all) teammates, not just one designated guy.
- burn

I think most would be shocked that the Leafs outhit Boston last Spring in the playoffs.

"Gritty" Kadri has cost us bad and appears to have lost a step.

I think Tampa know they're gonna waltz into the playoffs. We may need to pick up points against playoff teams to make it as we probably won't have as big a cushion as them. We already lost to a susptected bubble team
- walshyleafsfan

So Tampa losses to 2 bottom feeders and loses in ot to a bubble team, they're fine

Toronto losses to cup champs (pretty much dominated the game) and Tampa (didn't show up at all) and losses to bubble team (who they pretty much dominated and packed it in after making it 4-1) and the world is ending?

Yes he did. He also bought in Petan, Spezza, Shore, (not sure who suggested Mikheyev, seems like Babcock??), Barrie, Ceci and Kerfoot.

Wonder if he knew what Muzzin was about before trading for him? Seems awfully out of character.

As you correctly pointed out, it takes a whole team, not just one player (Muzzin)
- walshyleafsfan

Do you honestly think size is the issue? That's not why they've lost in the playoffs.

Yes he did. He also bought in Petan, Spezza, Shore, (not sure who suggested Mikheyev, seems like Babcock??), Barrie, Ceci and Kerfoot.

Wonder if he knew what Muzzin was about before trading for him? Seems awfully out of character.

As you correctly pointed out, it takes a whole team, not just one player (Muzzin)
- walshyleafsfan

A lot of those guys you mentioned are hard workers who I wouldn't exactly call soft. So Agian doesn't seem to fit the narrative.

He's bringing in guys with skill, guys who can skate in the nhl. I don't think he would pass over someone with those attributes if he also played a gritty game as well(he's already shown he will bring in a type like that). Just happens that not a lot of them exist or available.


Blues won the cup, and are concidered a big physical team. But Imo the one of the biggest reasons they won was cause of guys like sundqvuist and shwartz who would be classified as not gritty at all buying in and playing that game. That's how you win. Get your guys that you want to play, to play a strong game.

You're not going to win by taking a team full of ogres who can't skate or play but they play physical. You win by getting your guys who can play to play that big game.

So Tampa losses to 2 bottom feeders and loses in ot to a bubble team, they're fine

Toronto losses to cup champs (pretty much dominated the game) and Tampa (didn't show up at all) and losses to bubble team (who they pretty much dominated and packed it in after making it 4-1) and the world is ending?


- burn

The World is ending? Blow it all up and rebuild? Need more goons? Where do you guys get this stuff? It's like having a bunch pf Dangle puppets on here. The Toronto Maple Leafs will win the 2019/20 Stanley Cup.

He's got his followers on a string.

The funny thing is the Blues were 100% done and never making the playoffs with that big physical team without being saved by a rookie goalie.

Leafs need great goaltending like the Blues got from Binngton. It has not happned in the playoffs. Why is Freddy getting a free ride here?

Add "Physical" players. You think that makes a difference if goaltending stinks?

The 3 reasons Leafs have not gotten past the 1st round:

1 Gardiner -9 the last 2 game 7s

2-Freddy has been bad. 2 years ago his save % was well under .900 for the series. In game 7 this past Spring he let in a joke of a goal in the 1st period that killed the team.

3-Kadri being suspended. Yes, out "Gritty" player who stuck up for teammates cost us bad.

4-Babcock's bizarre player usage and being outcoached every series.


Leafs outhit Boston last Spring! LOL. Physical play is way down the list of issues.

So Tampa losses to 2 bottom feeders and loses in ot to a bubble team, they're fine

Toronto losses to cup champs (pretty much dominated the game) and Tampa (didn't show up at all) and losses to bubble team (who they pretty much dominated and packed it in after making it 4-1) and the world is ending?


- burn

After Tampa embarrassed Toronto, yes maybe the should get more respect than us.

I think most would be shocked that the Leafs outhit Boston last Spring in the playoffs.

"Gritty" Kadri has cost us bad and appears to have lost a step.
- RogerRoeper

blues averaged 31.5 hits per game in the playoffs

Leafs averaged 35.57 hits per game in the playoffs.

The World is ending? Blow it all up and rebuild? Need more goons? Where do you guys get this stuff? It's like having a bunch pf Dangle puppets on here. The Toronto Maple Leafs will win the 2019/20 Stanley Cup.

He's got his followers on a string.
- walshyleafsfan

Huh? I don't even know what this means...

I have litterally never watched a second of that goof.

Do you honestly think size is the issue? That's not why they've lost in the playoffs.
- RogerRoeper

Jesus, Mary and Joseph its (frank)ing hard work. The full on skill crew don't read what the criticisms are. Either that or they just change the narrative for whatever reasons. Size isn't necessary. No one has ever said actual measurements matter at all. I saw a tweet from Mark Stephens (think that's him name) saying the Leafs are taller than the Bruins.

I refuse to believe the Skill at all costs crew actually believe any one is saying the Leafs need to be taller. Like if we had Chris Bosh instead of Snakes we'd be a better team.

We need some, not all, not none, players who actually play a gritty game. In Lieu of having to type the same thing for the 100th time, here's a very good assessment on some fans criticisms copied from HFBoards.

This topic gets brought up every year and that proved that it’s clearly an issue that hasn’t gotten taken care of yet.

This thread also get derailed by the same posters with the same claims...completely misunderstanding the situation.

- No one wants Goons on this team
- No one is talking specifically about fighting or having the ability to fight
- You don’t even have to be a fierce hitter or a constant hitter

What we need is players who actually

-Play the body
-Tough along the boards
- Knock people over on their asses instead of poke checking
- Clear the front of the net with some purpose
-Stop with the soft flybys and actually crosscheck the other opposition player
-Play with some goddamn grit in your game
-Play with some damn attitude

- And yeah...having a 4th line that can skate, hit and create energy would be great too.

This team is marshmallow soft. We’re never gonna be playoff ready.

So whether those players are midgets, giants, upside down, Scottish, web fingered, in-debt, have a huge birthmark on their back or are a Capricorn i care not.

After Tampa embarrassed Toronto, yes maybe the should get more respect than us.
- systemtool

Seems odd that one team has lost to 2 bottom feeders but they're ok, everything is fine. While other team has 2 losses to the defending cup champs and everyone's presumed winner this year and they're dead in the water.

It's one game. Do the sens deserve more respect than Tampa?

Tampa should blow it up after losing to the sens.

'04 lol.

Jesus, Mary and Joseph its (frank)ing hard work. The full on skill crew don't read what the criticisms are. Either that or they just change the narrative for whatever reasons. Size isn't necessary. No one has ever said actual measurements matter at all. I saw a tweet from Mark Stephens (think that's him name) saying the Leafs are taller than the Bruins.

I refuse to believe the Skill at all costs crew actually believe any one is saying the Leafs need to be taller. Like if we had Chris Bosh instead of Snakes we'd be a better team.

We need some, not all, not none, players who actually play a gritty game. In Lieu of having to type the same thing for the 100th time, here's a very good assessment on some fans criticisms copied from HFBoards.

This topic gets brought up every year and that proved that it’s clearly an issue that hasn’t gotten taken care of yet.

This thread also get derailed by the same posters with the same claims...completely misunderstanding the situation.

- No one wants Goons on this team
- No one is talking specifically about fighting or having the ability to fight
- You don’t even have to be a fierce hitter or a constant hitter

What we need is players who actually

-Play the body
-Tough along the boards
- Knock people over on their asses instead of poke checking
- Clear the front of the net with some purpose
-Stop with the soft flybys and actually crosscheck the other opposition player
-Play with some goddamn grit in your game
-Play with some damn attitude

- And yeah...having a 4th line that can skate, hit and create energy would be great too.

This team is marshmallow soft. We’re never gonna be playoff ready.

So whether those players are midgets, giants, upside down, Scottish, web fingered, in-debt, have a huge birthmark on their back or are a Capricorn i care not.
- walshyleafsfan

What in the hell is that. Is this even real?

What in the hell is that. Is this even real?
- burn

As real as the need more goons crew. No different.

Love that that is what you took from that post. He/she says some very very valid concerns imo.

What do you think?

As real as the need more goons crew. No different.

Love that that is what you took from that post. He/she says some very very valid concerns imo.

What do you think?
- walshyleafsfan

I've already said.


Can't rely on one guy to do it, it doesn't work. Has to be a team wide thing, everyone pitches in.

I litterally have never seen anyone ever say get a soft and pansy as possible, but we have undoubtedly seen people say get more goons in here. People upset that Martin is gone and long for thr days of Orr and Mccleran. So yeah one is legitimately real and the other seems to be some made up figment of someone imagination.

Seems like people don't associate you as gritty unless you are running around like a wildman smashing everything in sight.


New Russian kid seems pretty gritty. As does kerfoot, who Babcock himself said has more jam than he thought.


But they haven't thrown a thundering check yet, so team is full of marshmallows

I've already said.


Can't rely on one guy to do it, it doesn't work. Has to be a team wide thing, everyone pitches in.

I litterally have never seen anyone ever say get a soft and pansy as possible, but we have undoubtedly seen people say get more goons in here. People upset that Martin is gone and long for thr days of Orr and Mccleran. So yeah one is legitimately real and the other seems to be some made up figment of someone imagination.
- burn

Need more goons.

Never seen that either. But I've read a lot of people apparently want that. We absolutely need a team with multiple individuals who play that way. Unfortunately, we don't have any players that can or are willing to play that way. So Dubas has a lot to do, but he has no cap. He also bought in Ceci and Barrie, so I'm not sure he thinks the same way you and me do. I think Dubas tries to stay away from having multiple players of that type.

Seems like people don't associate you as gritty unless you are running around like a wildman smashing everything in sight.


New Russian kid seems pretty gritty. As does kerfoot, who Babcock himself said has more jam than he thought.


But they haven't thrown a thundering check yet, so team is full of marshmallows
- burn

What the (frank), you've done it again.

You're doing it on purpose you monkey. You're not this stupid.

You nearly had me

Need more goons.

Never seen that either. But I've read a lot of people apparently want that. We absolutely need a team with multiple individuals who play that way. Unfortunately, we don't have any players that can or are willing to play that way. So Dubas has a lot to do, but he has no cap. He also bought in Ceci and Barrie, so I'm not sure he thinks the same way you and me do. I think Dubas tries to stay away from having multiple players of that type.
- walshyleafsfan

He's said multiple times that they're looking for skill first and foremost. As it should be.

I do not think he's going out of his way to get soft players.

I do think you can get those guys to buy in and play more of that style, we've seen it in the past. You absolutely cannot get guys who can't play hockey to somehow play hockey.

I've seen him get guys repeatedly that would not be classified as soft, so that notion is just nonsense.

What the (frank), you've done it again.

You're doing it on purpose you monkey. You're not this stupid.

You nearly had me
- walshyleafsfan

Who is and isn't gritty by your standards?


You said the team is all marshmallows, that dubas has gone out of his way to only deliberately bring in soft pansy players.....yet I've provided plenty of evidence otherwise.

While he isnt racking up the points i have no issue whatsoever with andreas johnsons game. He is generating lots of scoring chances and going to tough areas for them. With the number of shots hes generating, i expect him to start potting them with frequency.

Kapanen needs off the jt marner line. Hes out of place there. That whole line has been off from the start.

Gauthier looks like a legit nhl player now. He will never be offensive but i see a lot of antropov in him. He may not be getting assists but His linemates are benefitting from the space he creates with his size.

And a shout out to maxs boy woll. Debuts with a shutout for the marlies. And yes, reluctantly i admit, hintz looks good. But we needed barrie and kerfoot more in a kadri trade.

Sandin had a few tough games. He needs those to continue to grow. Holl hasnt looked all that bad either.

And this is probably the best ive seen freddy play in october lol. Hes been ok. He needs to get to being great. Or good. His game against columbus was vintage freddy. The rest have been closer to the usual october freddy. Not as bad, but not good either.

Do you honestly think size is the issue? That's not why they've lost in the playoffs.
- RogerRoeper

SIZE IS NOT AN ISSUE!



What are we talking about?

Who is and isn't gritty by your standards?


You said the team is all marshmallows, that dubas has gone out of his way to only deliberately bring in soft pansy players.....yet I've provided plenty of evidence otherwise.
- burn

I also said "You don’t even have to be a fierce hitter or a constant hitter" and you responded with some nonsense about thundering hits/checks.

There's very little point in me responding to be fair. As usual you'll hear what you want to hear. You'll respond with something that no one has ever said like need more goons or thunderous hits, and then probably bang an emoji on at the end

I also said "You don’t even have to be a fierce hitter or a constant hitter" and you responded with some nonsense about thundering hits/checks.

There's very little point in me responding to be fair. As usual you'll hear what you want to hear. You'll respond with something that no one has ever said like need more goons or thunderous hits, and then probably bang an emoji on at the end
- walshyleafsfan

Did I even quote you holy (frank).