Andersen saying that he wants to play less games
- MaximusAurelius

It has been well documented.

From everything I've read, the Leafs had super-advanced metrics that led them to believe that in fact, Ceci could hockey.
- Atomic Wedgie

I kind of always thought that was window dressing for the very mediocre deal they made.. no super advanced stat will defy the eye-test on Ceci's inability to play d.

I kind of always thought that was window dressing for the very mediocre deal they made.. no super advanced stat will defy the eye-test on Ceci's inability to play d.
- MaximusAurelius

While I agree with you on this one, I can't reconcile the fact that the Leafs could have front-loaded the one-year deal and made it easier to dump him 3 months into the season.

There's no rational explanation for it.

Would people rather have Zaitsev than Ceci? Not me. WE complain about the cap all the time, well we saved 4 years at 4.5 per.

I kind of always thought that was window dressing for the very mediocre deal they made.. no super advanced stat will defy the eye-test on Ceci's inability to play d.
- MaximusAurelius

The trade? It was a solid trade.

How do you think that would play in the hockey world? Dubas could not have done that.
- RogerRoeper

Somehow I don't think you can walk away if the arbitrator awards your exact offer.

at minimum you'd have a grievance on your hands from the NHLPA for negotiating in bad faith and trying to circumvent the CBA.

Here's an idea:

Trade Zaitsev for a pile of scraps. re-sign Gardiner for less than what Ceci costs.

I really like Tkachuk too, maybe Brannstrom could be good, but other then that I agree, I dont see any great pieces for contention in the near future.
- Archaic

Actually, Ottawa is in an interesting position. They don't have a clear number one star forward, (Tkachuk is very good but not sensational) but just imagine if they by some luck got Lafreniere in June. As much of a d!ck as Melnyk is, the team is in excellent shape to be sold or moved. The only horrible contract beyond 2 years is Bobby Ryan. Cap space is one of the nicest assets in the league these days. Consider that there are currently six or seven teams including the Leafs that will dress lineups of 19 or 20 players several times this year to stay under the cap

How do you think that would play in the hockey world? Dubas could not have done that.
- RogerRoeper

Why not?

You trade for a player. The player is guaranteed at $4.3m - but instead opts to go to arbitration of their own volition. The player is awarded somewhere over $4.8m, and the team walks away because they weren't willing to pay more than $4.3m.

The player is now an unrestricted free agent and may go sign wherever they want for however much they market will bear.

If I'm being honest, I don't get why Ceci didn't immediately sign his QO given his market value.

While I agree with you on this one, I can't reconcile the fact that the Leafs could have front-loaded the one-year deal and made it easier to dump him 3 months into the season.

There's no rational explanation for it.
- Atomic Wedgie

I keep rationally explaining that I don't think Ceci's camp would have wanted a front-loaded contract. This is his chance to have a good year, playing on a good team. If he can turn it around on this team, he can keep making over $4m / year. Next year he's UFA; his market value as it stands is going to be about $1m. Why risk a contract that could see you moved to a bottom feeder because it's cap money not real money. That's not going to help him.

Why not?

You trade for a player. The player is guaranteed at $4.3m - but instead opts to go to arbitration of their own volition. The player is awarded somewhere over $4.8m, and the team walks away because they weren't willing to pay more than $4.3m.

The player is now an unrestricted free agent and may go sign wherever they want for however much they market will bear.

If I'm being honest, I don't get why Ceci didn't immediately sign his QO given his market value.
- Monkeypunk

Then why w\wouldn't other teams ever do this in history? That would look horrible to the NHL and NHLPA.

I'm much more concerned about our crappy goaltending since last Christmas before Ceci ever arrived.

While I agree with you on this one, I can't reconcile the fact that the Leafs could have front-loaded the one-year deal and made it easier to dump him 3 months into the season.

There's no rational explanation for it.
- Atomic Wedgie

I think they actually believed Ceci would be ok for one year, and that a RHD than can play 20 minutes a night can easily be moved for assets at the TDL, particularly to a contending team with injuries.

Actually, Ottawa is in an interesting position. They don't have a clear number one star forward, (Tkachuk is very good but not sensational) but just imagine if they by some luck got Lafreniere in June. As much of a d!ck as Melnyk is, the team is in excellent shape to be sold or moved. The only horrible contract beyond 2 years is Bobby Ryan. Cap space is one of the nicest assets in the league these days. Consider that there are currently six or seven teams including the Leafs that will dress lineups of 19 or 20 players several times this year to stay under the cap
- winsix

New team and new TV deal should see a big bump in revenue soon and an even bigger bump up of the salary cap soon.

I do think the arena situation works against a sale somewhat, but it's not insurmountable.

Somehow I don't think you can walk away if the arbitrator awards your exact offer.

at minimum you'd have a grievance on your hands from the NHLPA for negotiating in bad faith and trying to circumvent the CBA.

Here's an idea:

Trade Zaitsev for a pile of scraps. re-sign Gardiner for less than what Ceci costs.
- BINGO!

But Gardiner got 3 years more, has back concerns, and would play a hell of a lot more than he is in Carolina, which is a concern to me.

Leaf have a coach that overplay a lot of players and hurts the team. The actual good players get played less than they should, of course.

Somehow I don't think you can walk away if the arbitrator awards your exact offer.

at minimum you'd have a grievance on your hands from the NHLPA for negotiating in bad faith and trying to circumvent the CBA.

Here's an idea:

Trade Zaitsev for a pile of scraps. re-sign Gardiner for less than what Ceci costs.
- BINGO!

If the arbitrator awards more than the walk away amount (which I can't remember the calculation for - but I just googled it and apparently this year was $4.39m), then you can walk-away, regardless of what you offered. It's in the CBA, so filing a grievance isn't likely to do much.

The problem with that idea is that (a) at the time Gardiner, I believe, wanted more than $4m and (b) Gardiner is a LHD.

For the record, I would rather have Gardiner than Ceci as well.

I think they actually believed Ceci would be ok for one year, and that a RHD than can play 20 minutes a night can easily be moved for assets at the TDL, particularly to a contending team with injuries.
- winsix

Yep.

I'm sure somebody on the coaching staff said they could make him serviceable for a few months, at least long enough to inflate his trade value.

New team and new TV deal should see a big bump in revenue soon and an even bigger bump up of the salary cap soon.

I do think the arena situation works against a sale somewhat, but it's not insurmountable.
- BINGO!

Agree, probably not in 2020-21 but the following year when the US TV deal comes into play. The gambling money will also help. With a couple of good drafts, Ottawa will be ok. The extra cap will help cash rich teams more than others though.

If the arbitrator awards more than the walk away amount (which I can't remember the calculation for - but I just googled it and apparently this year was $4.39m), then you can walk-away, regardless of what you offered. It's in the CBA, so filing a grievance isn't likely to do much.

The problem with that idea is that (a) at the time Gardiner, I believe, wanted more than $4m and (b) Gardiner is a LHD.

For the record, I would rather have Gardiner than Ceci as well.
- Monkeypunk

Fair enough. I don't think anyone saw Gardiner's ask dropping so low considering how few other options for blue-line help were out there.

Yep.

I'm sure somebody on the coaching staff said they could make him serviceable for a few months, at least long enough to inflate his trade value.
- BINGO!

How’s gardiner looking in carolina?

How’s gardiner looking in carolina?
- bryant

8 games in 1 goal 1 ass.

meh..

How’s gardiner looking in carolina?
- bryant

Much better than he did with the Leafs imo.

8 games in 1 goal 1 ass.

meh..
- bixll

there's a bit more to hockey than points though...

Much better than he did with the Leafs imo.
- 21peter

The players that leave, always get far better.

there's a bit more to hockey than points though...
- 21peter

Really, I had no idea. Marners agent says you are crazy.

Really, I had no idea.
- bixll

I'm not surprised

Edit: Marner's agents should have an award for that deal!

Then why w\wouldn't other teams ever do this in history? That would look horrible to the NHL and NHLPA.

I'm much more concerned about our crappy goaltending since last Christmas before Ceci ever arrived.
- RogerRoeper

Teams have walked away. By all rights the Senators should have walked away from Ceci last year. They offered him $3.5m in arbitration and he asked for $6m. The arbitration awarded him $4.3m.

But Clarke MacArthur became a Leaf after Atlanta walked away from his award. Chicago walked away from Niemi after they won a cup.

The sheer fact that Ceci asked for $6m in arbitration last year gives me reason to believe that the Leafs could have offered $4.4m, and seen the award over the threshold, including what they wanted, and walked away.

The point is that they obviously wanted him - whether it's a poor decision or not - they had options, and they chose to keep him. They were not painted into a single corner here.