Andersen has been awful. That's the root issue. We're in the top 5 in the shot metrics, corsi, 5v5. Our play with the puck has been fine; we've had some defensive lapses, but so does every team.

Outside of that, we're missing Dermott, and Rielly has been bad too.
- gravyface

Take away TB’s 7 goals and he’s been fine, but whatever. I think our D has been worse then Andy.

Maybe, but then, probably could have found a third pair guy for less than 4.5 million.
- aminnes

It was the price to pay for getting rid of Z....

Like I said, Ceci is only there because it’s October and Dermott is injured.

Even if Dermot doesn’t work there Ceci won’t be there come February.

It’s early, and Ceci can be there right now. It’s bad...but that’s October.

The Leafs iced

Rielly-Hainsey
Gardiner-Zaitzev
Marincin-Oz

Last October. It’ll get better, let’s see what they do in the coming months.

Take away TB’s 7 goals and he’s been fine, but whatever. I think our D has been worse then Andy.
- Garnie

Yup, both need to get better.

It’s dumb to argue who’s been worse, they go hand in hand.

I'd like to see Muzzin paired with Ceci until Rielly gets his game going. Play him and Barrie; the latter has been fine this year in his own end.

Spread the minutes around, and this could work:

Rielly Barrie
Muzzin Ceci
Dermott Holl
- gravyface

I wouldn’t mind that, at least for a game or 2 to see.

Yup, both need to get better.

It’s dumb to argue who’s been worse, they go hand in hand.
- Santo_44

950sv% without the TB game, where he was hung out to dry. Not sold on Hutch, not saying every goal was his fault but he doesn’t give me a lot of confidence....

It was the price to pay for getting rid of Z....

Like I said, Ceci is only there because it’s October and Dermott is injured.

Even if Dermot doesn’t work there Ceci won’t be there come February.

It’s early, and Ceci can be there right now. It’s bad...but that’s October.

The Leafs iced

Rielly-Hainsey
Gardiner-Zaitzev
Marincin-Oz

Last October. It’ll get better, let’s see what they do in the coming months.
- Santo_44

They could have walked away after arbitration. And if the argument is that it would have been low enough to not walk away then it would have been nice to see them actually go to arbitration. Dubas signed him to 4.5 million after the trade. So sorry, your wrong. Unless they planned on having a 4.5 million third pair d man, him and Reilly are going to play together. I like the theory don't get me wrong, but it would make Dubas look like an ass. I have doubts.

They could have walked away after arbitration. And if the argument is that it would have been low enough to not walk away then it would have been nice to see them actually go to arbitration. Dubas signed him to 4.5 million after the trade. So sorry, your wrong. Unless they planned on having a 4.5 million third pair d man, him and Reilly are going to play together. I like the theory don't get me wrong, but it would make Dubas look like an ass. I have doubts.
- aminnes

Better to admit being wrong and dropping him down, won’t be up to Dubas anyways.

Huh?

Dubas said Ceci will be having a different role, to me it’s obvious he planned for him to be sheltered and he hasn’t been able to so far given Dermott hasn’t been able to play yet.

Ceci is a place holder, if he can’t play the LS on the bottom pairing he can ride the pine...I really don’t see it being an issue. Sheltered 3rd pairing mins aren’t exactly difficult.

Ceci struggles heavily with what Rielly struggles with. Dermott is excellent at what Rielly struggles with.

If I’m Dubas and Babcock the plan all along is to try Dermott there when he’s healthy.

It’s not rocket science.
- Santo_44

It's not and yet still so wrong.

They could have walked away after arbitration. And if the argument is that it would have been low enough to not walk away then it would have been nice to see them actually go to arbitration. Dubas signed him to 4.5 million after the trade. So sorry, your wrong. Unless they planned on having a 4.5 million third pair d man, him and Reilly are going to play together. I like the theory don't get me wrong, but it would make Dubas look like an ass. I have doubts.
- aminnes

Ugh, why do people not understand Ceci was given qualifying offer before July 1st?

The Leafs traded for that, he could of accepted his qualifying offer whenever, which was a shade under 4.5 million.



But hey, if you don’t agree with me let’s bet.

Ceci won’t be on Reilly’s pair after the TDL, I’ll guarantee that.

If it weren’t for Babs I’d gaurentee Dermott takes his spot 3 games after he got back too.

It's not and yet still so wrong.
- JohnFergusonJr

Ok

Take away TB’s 7 goals and he’s been fine, but whatever. I think our D has been worse then Andy.
- Garnie

We're getting sub .900 goaltending. That's not good, and that's not all the D's fault.

Ugh, why do people not understand Ceci was given qualifying offer before July 1st?

The Leafs traded for that, he could of accepted his qualifying offer whenever, which was a shade under 4.5 million.



But hey, if you don’t agree with me let’s bet.

Ceci won’t be on Reilly’s pair after the TDL, I’ll guarantee that.

If it weren’t for Babs I’d gaurentee Dermott takes his spot 3 games after he got back too.
- Santo_44

Front load the contract, trade him 10 seconds after he gets his signing bonus.

I wouldn’t mind that, at least for a game or 2 to see.
- Garnie

Yeah, people think that two offensive defensemen are going to lose their minds on the ice and pinch on every play and never get back, but that's just not how good players function.

I can see them actually be both able to get back, both making smart plays and driving possession.

Front load the contract, trade him 10 seconds after he gets his signing bonus.
- JohnFergusonJr

Is that how it works?

Whatever Ottawa worked out with the QO was passed on to the Leafs.

Yeah, people think that two offensive defensemen are going to lose their minds on the ice and pinch on every play and never get back, but that's just not how good players function.

I can see them actually be both able to get back, both making smart plays and driving possession.
- gravyface

It’s almost like Rielly and Ceci except all Ceci can do is make a decent pass every now and then

Is that how it works?

Whatever Ottawa worked out with the QO was passed on to the Leafs.
- Santo_44

His QO is almost irrelevant since he didn't sign it. The Leafs gave him a contract. If they front loaded it, he gets more money up front and the Leafs have the option to trade his ass. Everybody wins.

Front load the contract, trade him 10 seconds after he gets his signing bonus.
- JohnFergusonJr

Hail Dubas.

We're getting sub .900 goaltending. That's not good, and that's not all the D's fault.
- gravyface

And it’s not all goaltending either, which is what some think. ( talking Andersen )

Yeah, people think that two offensive defensemen are going to lose their minds on the ice and pinch on every play and never get back, but that's just not how good players function.

I can see them actually be both able to get back, both making smart plays and driving possession.
- gravyface

Wouldn’t hurt, I don’t think Rielly Ceci has been great. But we should easily make the PO’s with this bunch regardless.

The Wild are goddamn horrible.

His QO is almost irrelevant since he didn't sign it. The Leafs gave him a contract. If they front loaded it, he gets more money up front and the Leafs have the option to trade his ass. Everybody wins.
- JohnFergusonJr

Show me the rule.

From my understanding Ceci could accept the QO at any moment, regardless of what Toronto wanted to do.

Ottawa gave it to him.

It’s completely relevant, Toronto could of said we will never play you and he still could of signed it.

Wouldn’t hurt, I don’t think Rielly Ceci has been great. But we should easily make the PO’s with this bunch regardless.
- Garnie

Last night Matthews and Nylander coasted off while the caps went on a 4 on 2, then Barrie pinched. It's a mess from a variety of different places right now. Talent will get them points against the bottom feeders at this point.

The Wild are goddamn horrible.
- Scabeh

They are in rebuild limbo: got some good pieces in Dumba, Spurgeon, but they should be unloading at the deadline and starting over.

Last night Matthews and Nylander coasted off while the caps went on a 4 on 2, then Barrie pinched. It's a mess from a variety of different places right now. Talent will get them points against the bottom feeders at this point.
- aminnes

Defensmen pinch.

The Muzzin/Barrie pairing has been fine.

Rielly/Ceci have been horrible, they aren’t a good match whatsoever.

NJ looking good to actually win a game tonight.