That's the hard part.

Petan clears. Shore, Spezza, and Marincin would be the extra players.

Two of them have to go.

None of them are game changing players. If an injury happens and we need to call up someone from the AHL, the Leafs have a lot of forwards they can probably swap in and out (ie, in the unlikely event that we lose Shore and Spezza on waivers, we still have Agostino, Aberg, Kossila, Bracco, Engvall . . . but Shore and Spezza are centres, so they have some value).

We all hate Marincin, but is he ahead of Gravel, Schmaltz, Harpur and Kivihalme? Because if he's the 7th best defenseman without risking burning an entry level year of one of our D of the future (ie, you don't want to waste an ELC year of Sandin or Liljegren if they are simply a 10 game injury replacement, but aren't really ready for primetime), then is he someone you keep in the pressbox instead of subjecting to waivers?
- Monkeypunk

Jumping through hoops like this is poor cap management.

Of course. But he is good enough to b a depth C on one of the best teams in the league and Dubas moved him for a bum no one wants was my point. Is it overly important, no, but it's still dumb.
- aminnes

Very true, he can take a faceoff better than Petan


That's what I took away from this

Any update on hyman? I assume he can return sat but haven’t heard a update on him in awhile so probably isn’t that close.
- bryant

I have no idea. It won't be long. He's eligible on Saturday, and I know he has taken off the practice jersey . . .but I think he may need a few more days if I recall correctly.

Jumping through hoops like this is poor cap management.
- aminnes

Spezza or Shore wouldn't clear waivers.. Just due to the position they play.

Once Dermott is back, Gravel can be sent back down to open up the cap space..

Once Hyman's back, that's where maybe a trade happens? Then put Marincin and Petan on waivers. I like Petan, but he's not a good fit here for what we need.

Spezza or Shore wouldn't clear waivers.. Just due to the position they play.

Once Dermott is back, Gravel can be sent back down to open up the cap space..

Once Hyman's back, that's where maybe a trade happens? Then put Marincin and Petan on waivers. I like Petan, but he's not a good fit here for what we need.
- PatC80

I wonder if GMs would give Spezza a courtesy call before claiming him. He might just retire if claimed by Detroit or another poop team.

Ottawa would be interesting...

Jumping through hoops like this is poor cap management.
- aminnes

I admire how savvy they are with dancing on the cap ceiling, but I don't think anyone is happy with how little room they have.

I do like Dubas. I'm not sold that his vision will work, but I'm not sold that it won't. As the NHL's landscape changes to reduce interference and obstruction, it makes more room for teams like Toronto to excel. But it's up to the NHL to call those rules, because otherwise there are a lot of good teams that will be adversely affected including Toronto.

When we look at this team right now there are not only instances where players aren't working hard enough, but there are also instances where players aren't playing well enough with each other - so that's got to right itself before we can assess what we have.

I think we all agree that he overpaid Matthews and Marner by about $1m each (some will argue more). That certainly isn't helping with cap constraints.

I admire how savvy they are with dancing on the cap ceiling, but I don't think anyone is happy with how little room they have.

I do like Dubas. I'm not sold that his vision will work, but I'm not sold that it won't. As the NHL's landscape changes to reduce interference and obstruction, it makes more room for teams like Toronto to excel. But it's up to the NHL to call those rules, because otherwise there are a lot of good teams that will be adversely affected including Toronto.

When we look at this team right now there are not only instances where players aren't working hard enough, but there are also instances where players aren't playing well enough with each other - so that's got to right itself before we can assess what we have.

I think we all agree that he overpaid Matthews and Marner by about $1m each (some will argue more). That certainly isn't helping with cap constraints.
- Monkeypunk

I don't think it's a wise move to build a team and then expect the league to adjust to your playing style.

The league is what it is. Aggression works and wins games. Always been that way. To win in the NHL you need plenty of speed and skill, but also aggression.

who's up for $6 Briuns shots!! ???

Spezza or Shore wouldn't clear waivers.. Just due to the position they play.

Once Dermott is back, Gravel can be sent back down to open up the cap space..

Once Hyman's back, that's where maybe a trade happens? Then put Marincin and Petan on waivers. I like Petan, but he's not a good fit here for what we need.
- PatC80

We need to move 4 bodies in total. Dermott + Hyman is $3.1m. We have 300k, so we need to make about 2.8m in cap space, or 4 700k contracts:

Petan (waiver exempt because he cleared Oct 1): $775k.
Gravel (waiver exempt because he cleared Oct 1): $700k.
Shore: $750k
Spezza: $700k
Marincin: $700k

Timashov: $694k


BTW, the only Leaf who is actually waiver exempt is Mikheyev.

who's up for $6 Briuns shots!! ???
- zazzle

*sex joke*

leafs scouting is really active right now - a bundle of em spotted in Boston.

*sex joke*
- AdamFrench

hey frenchy

hey frenchy
- Lucas.Neilson

Heyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

leafs scouting is really active right now - a bundle of em spotted in Boston.
- Lucas.Neilson

Good, maybe they can tell Dubas how to build a real team?

I don't think it's a wise move to build a team and then expect the league to adjust to your playing style.

The league is what it is. Aggression works and wins games. Always been that way. To win in the NHL you need plenty of speed and skill, but also aggression.
- aminnes

The league has already made those adjustments, and many teams have made similar adjustments. There are notable shifts away from excessive physicality because those plays often take a player off or away from the puck. Aggression just puts teams shorthanded, and that's not a winning formula either.

To get the past that pedantry - what I think you're really more referring to is strength and power, which have their advantage. Playing heavy, and being able to grind on the boards, win battles, and wear down weaker opponents. That works. But it comes back to possession. The team with the puck dictates where you play with it. Heavy teams take it to heavy areas. Skilled teams try to keep it away from those areas.

There's a recency bias that says St. Louis just won the cup, and they play a heavy grinding game. Washington won and they play a far more skilled game, but had a couple of players who play hard. Pittsburgh didn't play heavy and they won two cups in a row. Now the Leafs are softer than all of them, I'll grant, but the model for that team is closer to Pittsburgh than St. Louis.

Good, maybe they can tell Dubas how to build a real team?
- Hockey_Reverend

He won’t listen.

Franking millennials never listen.

He won’t listen.

Franking millennials never listen.
- Atomic Wedgie

Don't have to.

We need to move 4 bodies in total. Dermott + Hyman is $3.1m. We have 300k, so we need to make about 2.8m in cap space, or 4 700k contracts:

Petan (waiver exempt because he cleared Oct 1): $775k.
Gravel (waiver exempt because he cleared Oct 1): $700k.
Shore: $750k
Spezza: $700k
Marincin: $700k

Timashov: $694k


BTW, the only Leaf who is actually waiver exempt is Mikheyev.
- Monkeypunk

I wonder if the Leafs will bring a couple of extra guys on long (far away) road trips.

Nothing in the rules against bringing Gravel and Timashov on the team charter - even if they are not on the roster.

I wonder if the Leafs will bring a couple of extra guys on long (far away) road trips.

Nothing in the rules against bringing Gravel and Timashov on the team charter - even if they are not on the roster.
- Atomic Wedgie

That makes sense. Isn’t their contracts the same in the ahl as it is in the nhl? So basically nothing changes they just aren’t getting into games.

The league has already made those adjustments, and many teams have made similar adjustments. There are notable shifts away from excessive physicality because those plays often take a player off or away from the puck. Aggression just puts teams shorthanded, and that's not a winning formula either.

To get the past that pedantry - what I think you're really more referring to is strength and power, which have their advantage. Playing heavy, and being able to grind on the boards, win battles, and wear down weaker opponents. That works. But it comes back to possession. The team with the puck dictates where you play with it. Heavy teams take it to heavy areas. Skilled teams try to keep it away from those areas.

There's a recency bias that says St. Louis just won the cup, and they play a heavy grinding game. Washington won and they play a far more skilled game, but had a couple of players who play hard. Pittsburgh didn't play heavy and they won two cups in a row. Now the Leafs are softer than all of them, I'll grant, but the model for that team is closer to Pittsburgh than St. Louis.
- Monkeypunk

I don't think it's either aggressive play or puck possession. Winning means both. St. Louis is just the latest example.

Washington is probably the meanest team in the League. They are big nasty wieners.

Pittsburgh didn't have name brand tough guys but they played tough. They don't let guys run their star players and they answer when needed. That is not this Leafs team. People need to go back and watch Pitts two cup runs and see how heavy the hockey was. Passing the puck around and doing sweet dangles is not what can be seen there. They played basic, hard aggressive hockey, not the least of which came from their captain. They did not allow guys to run around and then wait for the league to rescue them with power plays. This is the Leafs strategy and it ain't working. As I said, the NHL is what it is and they aren't going to change to fit he Leafs style.

Jumping through hoops like this is poor cap management.
- aminnes

Or it's the alternative to trading away one of the elite forwards.

Lets see where it goes. None of those elite young wingers are diminishing assets. If the plan isn't working out then there's plenty of time move a winger for D and/or cap space.

Or it's the alternative to trading away one of the elite forwards.

Lets see where it goes. None of those elite young wingers are diminishing assets. If the plan isn't working out then there's plenty of time move a winger for D and/or cap space.
- The Law

Mikheyev has more points than Nylander

leafs scouting is really active right now - a bundle of em spotted in Boston.
- Lucas.Neilson

Scouting where they went wrong with Ceci

Mikheyev has more points than Nylander
- TheMussel

Which is another good point. I imagine management is noticing that they're deeper on the wing then initially thought. Mikheyev and Moore look like they can play up in the lineup if needed and Timashov looks more and more like at least a servicable NHL'er.

Lots of young skilled wingers. I still think the D will improve and they'll ride this out but next summer is open season in terms of possibly moving some skill up front for some young affordable D.