update: Dermott in tomorrow.

Analytics will be a major casualty if we continue the current trend with all its multiple sub plots. The idea that the Islanders have a better winning record than the Leafs since Lou made the shift should be a wake up moment for all observers.

I don't know how the numbers justify a Zaitsev for Ceci. And, I have already said far too much about the trading of Kadri.
- spatso

sigh...


This is why we need a ref.

Kadri was traded b/c he had become the 3rd best centre on the team. He was a great asset. I'm sure management and the coach would have loved to keep him. But, they knew the D needed to get better and he was the asset that the other teams wanted.
- The Law

And the whole getting suspended in the playoffs for consecutive years....

Look it could be worse... you could be paying $10.5 million for Toews.
- BINGO!

Towes brought Chicago 2 cups.

update: Dermott in tomorrow.
- Lucas.Neilson

5-0 Leafs

I think you are wrong. I believe that because of analytics Kadri was never fully valued in relation to the "character' he brought to the team. I don't know. But, my guess is you will find that the Avs are a lot more happy than the Leafs.
- spatso

Kadri (frank)ed up in the playoffs, 2 years in row and really hurt the teams.

there is no analytics angle to this, and besides he has always been a stud in the fancy stats dep.

Analytics will be a major casualty if we continue the current trend with all its multiple sub plots. The idea that the Islanders have a better winning record than the Leafs since Lou made the shift should be a wake up moment for all observers.

I don't know how the numbers justify a Zaitsev for Ceci. And, I have already said far too much about the trading of Kadri.
- spatso

None of which has any merit or support or are you arguing that Matthews or Tavares should have been dealt for help on the blue line b/c of their lack of intangibles?

Towes brought Chicago 2 cups.
- Sandro

Toews *was part of a Chicago team that won* 2 cups.

and then signed a monstrous contract.

Kadri (frank)ed up in the playoffs, 2 years in row and really hurt the teams.

there is no analytics angle to this, and besides he has always been a stud in the fancy stats dep.
- senstroll

The retard is pushing a stupid narrative and trolling. But we can’t get a ref in here for some reason.

Analytics will be a major casualty if we continue the current trend with all its multiple sub plots. The idea that the Islanders have a better winning record than the Leafs since Lou made the shift should be a wake up moment for all observers.

I don't know how the numbers justify a Zaitsev for Ceci. And, I have already said far too much about the trading of Kadri.
- spatso

For the love of Christ, stop. No one is using analytics solely to make a decision. It is a factor that you use in evaluations. It is also not the same analytics that you'll see online or in any public forum. It's proprietary and every team uses them to some extent as a way to monitor and measure play.

Lou ALSO uses analytics.

They ALL do. Even your poopshow team does, although given Melnyk's cash problems it's probably an intern who's getting a PhD in Literature.

Toews *was part of a Chicago team that won* 2 cups.

and then signed a monstrous contract.
- BINGO!

also, it was 3.

Analytics will be a major casualty if we continue the current trend with all its multiple sub plots. The idea that the Islanders have a better winning record than the Leafs since Lou made the shift should be a wake up moment for all observers.

I don't know how the numbers justify a Zaitsev for Ceci. And, I have already said far too much about the trading of Kadri.
- spatso

okie dokie

Toews *was part of a Chicago team that won* 2 cups.

and then signed a monstrous contract.
- BINGO!

and our guys (AM/MM/Willy-Nilly got their money, have HALF the heart of Toews, and haven't brought us anything...not even into the 2nd round.

Analytics will be a major casualty if we continue the current trend with all its multiple sub plots. The idea that the Islanders have a better winning record than the Leafs since Lou made the shift should be a wake up moment for all observers.

I don't know how the numbers justify a Zaitsev for Ceci. And, I have already said far too much about the trading of Kadri.
- spatso

there is a difference between the 'hockeybuzz analytics crew' and some advanced metrics (actual advance analysis on hockey teams and individual players).

people on here can use the eye test.
people on here cannot use the 'advanced analytics' in arguing that player x or y is 'great' or 'bad' - just because the analytics publicly available are pre-embryonic stage still.

they only reason zaitsev for ceci trade was ok, is that next year Leafs will be able to spend 4+million of Zaitsev contract on another d-man. Not too sure though they can find anyone better than him; Zaitsev is a good 2nd pairing D-man. (and Ceci is a third pairing d-man on a bad bad contract)

Last year they came out flying and then teetered off when they had sealed a playoff spot by Christmas. We all watched Boston go max effort even though they had locked up a spot too. I was worried it'd be a 4 game series ...men against boys. Then the series starts and I can't say either team stood out in terms of a better effort.

I think they're pulling the same poop again. Too much immaturity and inexperience I think. Some of them think by showing up they'll earn the win. We've got to hope that this poopty start (and the last two playoff failures) will put some hunger into the young stars. AM and MM have the ability to 'will' this team to some wins.
- The Law

It feels like they need a leader to take them by the horns and lead them. I agree that they act like they just expect to win. With the talent they have, it'll generally happen against weaker competition, but they have not really looked good yet this year for a full 60 minute game. Maybe the loss against St. Louis. I don't know. It's why everyone is so frustrated.

"They're wimps!"; "They have no heart"; "They need a Reaves"; "Hutchinson sucks"; "Ceci sucks" . . .all of these statements can be true on some level, but none of them are the reason they're losing. They were the same heartless Reaves-less wimps last year with an equally crappy backup goalie and an equally awful Zaitsev on D. Last year they showed they could up the tempo and play through any of that stuff when they needed to. They just were too often not interested in doing so.

Hopefully Tavares can be that influence when he's back. Right now the kids are definitely not doing it.

also, it was 3.
- BINGO!

That first Cup team was insane. If they had a real goalie, they would be right there in the best teams to win it list. So much (frank)ing depth.

there is a difference between the 'hockeybuzz analytics crew' and some advanced metrics (actual advance analysis on hockey teams and individual players).

people on here can use the eye test.
people on here cannot use the 'advanced analytics' in arguing that player x or y is 'great' or 'bad' - just because the analytics publicly available are pre-embryonic stage still.

they only reason zaitsev for ceci trade was ok, is that next year Leafs will be able to spend 4+million of Zaitsev contract on another d-man. Not too sure though they can find anyone better than him; Zaitsev is a good 2nd pairing D-man. (and Ceci is a third pairing d-man on a bad bad contract)
- MaximusAurelius

We were totally in agreement until you said that.

there is a difference between the 'hockeybuzz analytics crew' and some advanced metrics (actual advance analysis on hockey teams and individual players).

people on here can use the eye test.
people on here cannot use the 'advanced analytics' in arguing that player x or y is 'great' or 'bad' - just because the analytics publicly available are pre-embryonic stage still.

they only reason zaitsev for ceci trade was ok, is that next year Leafs will be able to spend 4+million of Zaitsev contract on another d-man. Not too sure though they can find anyone better than him; Zaitsev is a good 2nd pairing D-man. (and Ceci is a third pairing d-man on a bad bad contract)
- MaximusAurelius

Tulsky was talking about this a couple weeks ago. Described it like "Flipping the lights on" in a room to capture specific moments in the game. said what's publicly available is like flipping the light on a few hundred times per game, whereas what the team itself is doing is more like doing it a few thousand times per game.

He also said there are some publicly available metrics that perhaps don't hold the kind of weight that a lot of people seem to think they do, but wouldn't specify which ones because he thinks there are some teams out there that haven't figured that out yet.

That first Cup team was insane. If they had a real goalie, they would be right there in the best teams to win it list. So much (frank)ing depth.
- AdamFrench

It's hard to believe they lost at all given what fell into their laps.

there is a difference between the 'hockeybuzz analytics crew' and some advanced metrics (actual advance analysis on hockey teams and individual players).

people on here can use the eye test.
people on here cannot use the 'advanced analytics' in arguing that player x or y is 'great' or 'bad' - just because the analytics publicly available are pre-embryonic stage still.

they only reason zaitsev for ceci trade was ok, is that next year Leafs will be able to spend 4+million of Zaitsev contract on another d-man. Not too sure though they can find anyone better than him; Zaitsev is a good 2nd pairing D-man. (and Ceci is a third pairing d-man on a bad bad contract)
- MaximusAurelius

one of the items mentioned at one of the statsy conferences was that the publicity available stats uses about 300 data points and teams are using 3000 now.

We dont know what and how teams are using them, so Spatso point is pretty dumb..as usual

there is a difference between the 'hockeybuzz analytics crew' and some advanced metrics (actual advance analysis on hockey teams and individual players).

people on here can use the eye test.
people on here cannot use the 'advanced analytics' in arguing that player x or y is 'great' or 'bad' - just because the analytics publicly available are pre-embryonic stage still.

they only reason zaitsev for ceci trade was ok, is that next year Leafs will be able to spend 4+million of Zaitsev contract on another d-man. Not too sure though they can find anyone better than him; Zaitsev is a good 2nd pairing D-man. (and Ceci is a third pairing d-man on a bad bad contract)
- MaximusAurelius

I think you are entirely correct. I have no difficulty with analytics as an indicator of performance in terms of contract negotiations and general player evaluation. My problem is more in line with the apples and oranges comparisons.

At a practical level, Lou and Dubas probably use the same analytics for evaluation purposes. However, they are also informed by their own experience. Clearly Dubas does not have the same experience when it comes to building serious playoff contenders.

Tulsky was talking about this a couple weeks ago. Described it like "Flipping the lights on" in a room to capture specific moments in the game. said what's publicly available is like flipping the light on a few hundred times per game, whereas what the team itself is doing is more like doing it a few thousand times per game.

He also said there are some publicly available metrics that perhaps don't hold the kind of weight that a lot of people seem to think they do, but wouldn't specify which ones because he thinks there are some teams out there that haven't figured that out yet.
- BINGO!

it annoys me Tulsky was not hired by the Leafs, the canes are doing the things that I expected the Leafs to be doing.

at least its the Canes who I really have no issues with and not another poopty team I hate

Tulsky was talking about this a couple weeks ago. Described it like "Flipping the lights on" in a room to capture specific moments in the game. said what's publicly available is like flipping the light on a few hundred times per game, whereas what the team itself is doing is more like doing it a few thousand times per game.

He also said there are some publicly available metrics that perhaps don't hold the kind of weight that a lot of people seem to think they do, but wouldn't specify which ones because he thinks there are some teams out there that haven't figured that out yet.
- BINGO!

*cough* Corsi *cough*

We were totally in agreement until you said that.
- Monkeypunk

I thought Zaitsev was misused by Babcock - Zaitsev could have used a bit more offensive starts and some PP time. Babcock didn't really have another choice though with all other d-men on the roster that are quite bad on the defensive end.

in the playoffs last year vs Bruins, both Zaitsev and Hainsey played really really well btw - with the big exception for the PK (which was terrible in general, not just those 2)

I am surprised nobody else seems to have picked up on the Matthews gradual inability to play defense. I am also surprised that the narrative for so long was how Laine was so 1-dimensional.

I don't buy the turnover, learning new systems, or even the injuries excuse. This has simply been going on for too long with ZERO improvement. There is no excuse. Something is certainly wrong with this team. I hate to scream "fire the coach", but I am really wondering at this point.
- Aetherial

Same here, bud.. I know Babs hasn't forgotten how to coach, I think this team might need him to be fired though.. Maybe it's time?