it looks like the entire team decided to sit this one out in sympathy for seabs; but lehner never got the memo...

If the system doesn't match the talent, why did the GM put the coach in charge of the talent in place? And then go out and get more talent that doesn't seem to fit? He got two slower defensemen to play in a system that requires speed. Why?
- mohel

I cannot answer the coach question because I've never thought very highly of hiring a guy whose resume is so short.

As for players, I assume Bowman was focused on getting quality players, which he did for the most part. I've been a big De Haan fan for a while, I think Maatta is dependable for the most part, Carpenter is a good defensive specialist type for the b6, Kubalik is impressive, etc etc.

I agree with this ... although it may already be too late for Lehner to consider coming back to this clown show.
- EbonyRaptor

Nah he'll be happy to get 5 years $30 mil

Personally, I just don't think that JC's system/scheme really works for the personnel on this team. A mistake in zone coverage is more lenient but not man-to-man, so it probably does feel much more restrictive. I feel like if even some of the best defensive guys on the team are still struggling to get it game to game, then maybe it's not the best for this particular team.

Adjustments needs to be made imo.
- L_B_R

I agree that the coach has to adjust if his players are not capable and/or willing to play the way he wants them to play. The question is how much time does the coach give it before he scraps his game plan and makes a midstream change? There have been some signs that the players have played it well (not tonight obviously) - but is that because the opponent was not a good team of playing tired or some other extenuating circumstance that only allowed the Hawks to look like they played it well?

I don't know the answers but I think the situation is more complex than we allow for answers to be so black and white.

It is a conundrum with JC, because I look at what he has been able to do for and with Nylander, Strome, DBC, and even Saad. That's where you see the "player whisperer" development coach skills bear fruit.

But then the system overall and, it appears on the surface, his motivation and coaching of the vets is lacking.

Which is more critical for this team going forward, assuming he adapts his system to the players he has (will he? who knows?)
- pdx2ord

I don't think you can give too much credit on Debrincat and Saad. And idk about the handling of Strome this season with the 4th line 5v5 minutes and switching his position.

Nylander has been good, though. Of course, JC brought out the best in Gus last season too but will that end up being a one-hit wonder situation? Hopefully Nylander is a long-term deal too.

Ben Pope
@BenPopeCST
87-41 in shot attempts.
42-14 in scoring chances.
51-20 in shots on goal.
Shut out for the 2nd time in 3 games.
1 or fewer goals in 4 of last 5 games.

the ugly, more ugly and a whole lot more ugly...no good or bad to be seen...

Nah he'll be happy to get 5 years $30 mil
- BetweenTheDots

Yeah but if he keeps playing like this there will be a line of teams wanting to give him $30M for 5 years ... and most of them will have a more promising future than the Hawks.

I cannot answer the coach question because I've never thought very highly of hiring a guy whose resume is so short.

As for players, I assume Bowman was focused on getting quality players, which he did for the most part. I've been a big De Haan fan for a while, I think Maatta is dependable for the most part, Carpenter is a good defensive specialist type for the b6, Kubalik is impressive, etc etc.
- L_B_R

I like the additions, too. But I assume Stan knew the system JC would run when he hired him. If it didn't match the personnel on hand, it seems an odd hire. I also assume much of what JC does is in conjunction with the FO, especially on analytics. So, to me, this is as much Stan's issue.

I agree that the coach has to adjust if his players are not capable and/or willing to play the way he wants them to play. The question is how much time does the coach give it before he scraps his game plan and makes a midstream change? There have been some signs that the players have played it well (not tonight obviously) - but is that because the opponent was not a good team of playing tired or some other extenuating circumstance that only allowed the Hawks to look like they played it well?

I don't know the answers but I think the situation is more complex than we allow for answers to be so black and white.
- EbonyRaptor

Well I mean look at least season - they were still playing poor defensively even when they went on a winning spree from ASW. They figured out how to get the offense going, and I give JC credit for the line combos to spark something and whoever (Barry Smith?) who got the PP going, but they were still bleeding shots and chances against. They just scored their way out of trouble a lot.

It is more complex than just "the system sucks" but it's one issue I think could be adjusted more readily than some others and they have enough data now to see it. Jmo.

I don't think you can give too much credit on Debrincat and Saad. And idk about the handling of Strome this season with the 4th line 5v5 minutes and switching his position.

Nylander has been good, though. Of course, JC brought out the best in Gus last season too but will that end up being a one-hit wonder situation? Hopefully Nylander is a long-term deal too.
- L_B_R

DBC only in that he's playing much more of a complete game, seems focused on playing harder on the puck. Strome, who knows what is going on this year, but he definitely surprised after being all but a bust in AZ. Saad I was thinking only of what appears to be a newfound dedication to conditioning and playing hard every shift. He looks better now than he has since he came back.

But, as I was asking earlier, what gives this year? What has changed so drastically for these guys, most of whom were playing at 100 pt pace last year? And, they've got better people to play alongside. Is it that JC gave up on his system last year and just let the guys run free and focus on offense? And, now, he's forcing the issue and it's breaking apart?

It is a conundrum with JC, because I look at what he has been able to do for and with Nylander, Strome, DBC, and even Saad. That's where you see the "player whisperer" development coach skills bear fruit.

But then the system overall and, it appears on the surface, his motivation and coaching of the vets is lacking.

Which is more critical for this team going forward, assuming he adapts his system to the players he has (will he? who knows?)
- pdx2ord

The system doesn't stop the players from being faster skaters! Even though the Hawks are bigger now, they look weak and slow. Carolina handled them easily. It's the talent in the locker room, not the system. Their most dangerous player this season has been a player who couldn't get out of Buffalo's AHL team last year.

DBC only in that he's playing much more of a complete game, seems focused on playing harder on the puck. Strome, who knows what is going on this year, but he definitely surprised after being all but a bust in AZ. Saad I was thinking only of what appears to be a newfound dedication to conditioning and playing hard every shift. He looks better now than he has since he came back.

But, as I was asking earlier, what gives this year? What has changed so drastically for these guys, most of whom were playing at 100 pt pace last year? And, they've got better people to play alongside. Is it that JC gave up on his system last year and just let the guys run free and focus on offense? And, now, he's forcing the issue and it's breaking apart?
- pdx2ord

Debrincat changed who he worked and trained with this and came in playing that way, so again, dunno if that has anything to do with the coach. Same was Saad, Strome, etc.

Idk what to say just that I'm not a fan of JC in general (scheme, lines, playing b6 center in offensive roles, etc). Hope he figures it or the players so or anything - I just want the team to play to their potential.

Debrincat changed who he worked and trained with this and came in playing that way, so again, dunno if that has anything to do with the coach. Same was Saad, Strome, etc.

Idk what to say just that I'm not a fan of JC in general (scheme, lines, playing b6 center in offensive roles, etc). Hope he figures it or the players so or anything - I just want the team to play to their potential.
- L_B_R

True, true

Same, same

I was trying to wait until 20 games in to post my opinion of the season so far....but I attended the Philly debacle and then watched tonight’s game.

3 main points come to mind. 1. Our cup winning teams consisted of great neutral zone defense and back checking (Thank you Hossa)...which transitioned them into the offensive zone. This also helped skew the possession numbers as a “puck possession” team.

2. Even though we were highly skilled in our cup years, we used team speed and played “heavy” on the forecheck....Buff, Ladd, Frolik, Bolland, Sharp, and even Hossa. The other night, DBC doesn’t get the goal without Carpenter separating the puck from the Dman for Strome to set up from behind the net. I understand the safety rules have changed and boarding calls are up, but I just wish they would play all regular season games as “playoff” games and wear teams down (like they wear us down, cycling the puck down low).

3. The team speed and skating seems to be lacking. Not sure if it’s personnel, system, or a combination. It’s not only in transition, but getting (and winning) the 50/50 puck battles.

So, SB needs to figure out....do you go all in and try to make a substantial move in season or after the season to try and win in the 3 years left of Toews/Kane...or start the year down. I’m excited to see Mitchell next year and the D-kids come up...maybe this will help our team speed and transition game, even though they aren’t considered the prototypical “Defensive” Dmen. After watching Gustafson not stick check the Predator player in front of the net and watch him scoop the rebound past Lehner....it can’t be worse (???).

This is just the beginning, not the end, of the benching of core players. Make life miserable enough for them, they'll gladly leave Chicago. We lost tonite in a joke of a game. Anyone miss Seabrook? Would it have made a difference had Toews not suited up? Keith? Time to waive goodbye to these guys. It will be advantageous to the new coach coming in. Thank you from the bottom of our hearts, for what you accomplished. But, sorry to say, those days are over.

you will never see an easier hat trick by a grinder like bonino unless they were all empty netters:

1. he got to the front of the net
2. no hawk touched him
3. lehner made the initial stop(s)
4. he got the rebounds as if they were set up on a tee and knocked them home

This is just the beginning, not the end, of the benching of core players. Make life miserable enough for them, they'll gladly leave Chicago. We lost tonite in a joke of a game. Anyone miss Seabrook? Would it have made a difference had Toews not suited up? Keith? Time to waive goodbye to these guys. It will be advantageous to the new coach coming in. Thank you from the bottom of our hearts, for what you accomplished. But, sorry to say, those days are over.
- gabriel

if any of you can figure him out...chime in. He was outstanding vs the kings and then tonight he looks like the ghost of rundblad. I don't get it. And its been up and down like this all year. With Gus, they suck. I don't get it.

Toews talking about losing battles and late to pucks...that was him all game long.

if any of you can figure him out...chime in. He was outstanding vs the kings and then tonight he looks like the ghost of rundblad. I don't get it. And its been up and down like this all year. With Gus, they suck. I don't get it.

Toews talking about losing battles and late to pucks...that was him all game long.
- bogiedoc

"As individuals, starting with myself, my game hasn't been there," Toews said. "You can say all you want to your teammates and try to rally guys in the locker room and be positive but it starts with your individual game and your effort and your energy and your consistency and doing the little things right. My game hasn't quite been there and I think when your top guys and guys who have been in this locker room for a while and (been) your best players, everyone follows suit and myself and those others can definitely take it upon ourselves to start leading the way in having that consistent effort every single night.

"There's no doubt we have a ton of ability and a ton of experience in this room and a bunch of guys who are already really enjoying being around each other in the room," Toews continued. "It's frustrating that we've gone through this lately. We have to find ways to get our consistency and start building our confidence as a team."

Another loss in the books. The only player who showed up was Lehner. He was lights out great , he deserves a better outcome.


This team lacks speed , sustaining offensive zone play with any threat, a non existent power play,.

Toews has been awful this season 2 points total.
Kane Mia ?
This entire team needs a ride awakening .

JC I watched his remarks after the game and on the subject of Seabrook ,his response was .vague and coy as well as mjxed in with i need to do a better job communicating?

The only way this team can turn things around is the core players need to step up, I believe deep down they don't trust or respect JC
It's just my take .

For the first time (maybe ever), I think Konroyd did a good job of breaking down what has gone wrong/isn't working with the team:

https://podcasts.apple.co...7H_4YajB7uRQAdpQION9-OAaY

I think Championship teams in the cap world have to hit rock bottom before they can start to rise again. Detroit went through it, and now LA and Chicago are going through it. Pittsburgh and Boston managed to retool with their core intact, but both aren't that far from hitting some serious bad times. The Hawks gave up all kinds of prospects and draft picks to try to win one more cup or to stay cap compliant. Now the team has core guys who are no longer core guys. Keith is a decent second pairing guy who can help on the penalty kill. Seabrook is pretty much done. Toews is a shadow of the beast who led the team for a decade and now it appears we're seeing the decline of Patrick Kane. This is a big enough problem but none of the younger guys is any better. Kane is still the best winger, Toews the best center and Keith the best defenseman. And I have said many times, with 3 championships and being one of, if not the best, team in the NHL for a decade, I'm fine with it.

Now it's time for the team to restock it's prospects and begin building a new team to become a contender. Easier said than done. In 2007 the Hawks had a ton of prospects in the AHL and in junior and were a couple of years away from the draft picks that helped take them over the top. Of course a couple of strategic trades and UFA signings were also instrumental in making the team what they were.

Unlike many on here I'm inherently patient. I never thought I'd see the Hawks win anything in my lifetime so anything more now is gravy. I have confidence Bowman can build a group of prospects into a playoff team and then to be contenders. Is JC the right coach? Considering he has no star players and a very weak defense it's hard to judge what he is.

I'm going to continue to watch MY team and hope they can improve but I expect with some good drafting, prospect development and some luck we are still a couple of years away from seeing a playoff team and then another few years before they will contend again.

*NEW* blog up: http://bit.ly/2JzCiZf

What now, Blackhawks?

"Definitely, there's some recurring themes and if we want to beat good teams throughout the season we gotta figure out what it is," Toews said. "Playing with energy, playing with speed, being in the puck area, getting the pucks first and having support to win those battles and get those loose pucks all over the ice, I think that's where it starts.

"So from there we didn't do that and then their confidence just grew and they didn't let up, they just kept working. There's a lot of things we can take from the way they played the game tonight."

But...why in G11 is not playing with energy, speed and battling for pucks such an ongoing theme with this team. Is it will, is it skill, is it JC (as most seem to think).

I think Championship teams in the cap world have to hit rock bottom before they can start to rise again. Detroit went through it, and now LA and Chicago are going through it. Pittsburgh and Boston managed to retool with their core intact, but both aren't that far from hitting some serious bad times. The Hawks gave up all kinds of prospects and draft picks to try to win one more cup or to stay cap compliant. Now the team has core guys who are no longer core guys. Keith is a decent second pairing guy who can help on the penalty kill. Seabrook is pretty much done. Toews is a shadow of the beast who led the team for a decade and now it appears we're seeing the decline of Patrick Kane. This is a big enough problem but none of the younger guys is any better. Kane is still the best winger, Toews the best center and Keith the best defenseman. And I have said many times, with 3 championships and being one of, if not the best, team in the NHL for a decade, I'm fine with it.

Now it's time for the team to restock it's prospects and begin building a new team to become a contender. Easier said than done. In 2007 the Hawks had a ton of prospects in the AHL and in junior and were a couple of years away from the draft picks that helped take them over the top. Of course a couple of strategic trades and UFA signings were also instrumental in making the team what they were.

Unlike many on here I'm inherently patient. I never thought I'd see the Hawks win anything in my lifetime so anything more now is gravy. I have confidence Bowman can build a group of prospects into a playoff team and then to be contenders. Is JC the right coach? Considering he has no star players and a very weak defense it's hard to judge what he is.

I'm going to continue to watch MY team and hope they can improve but I expect with some good drafting, prospect development and some luck we are still a couple of years away from seeing a playoff team and then another few years before they will contend again.
- paulr

I bolded that part but agree with the whole post. Winning buys you time. Yes 2015 was the last time they won, but other than PGH, there are 28 others teams along with their fan bases who would trade their left you know what to have 3 Cups in the not too distant rearview.

Toews and Seabs are likely untradable, but I would definitely explore trading Keith at the TDL and Kane over the summer. No it won't likely make the team immediately better, but time to look toward the future.

Stan made a mistake.

He wanted to be the smartest guy in the room, finding a guy who had 4 years of coaching experience in Sweden’s Tier 2 league. A guy no one else was looking at.

BTW, 3 of JC’s 4 in SWE were losing seasons.

The first step for the organization is admitting they made a mistake. The second is fixing it.

#CollitonSucks