The Sabres played a brutal 6 minutes of the first period last night and it cost them the game. Analytics don’t tell the full story but do contribute to the full picture of 14 games.
- Swedish_Jesus

Please stop trying to argue statistics with people who don’t understand statistics.

You’ll get absolutely nowhere

Edit - let me rephrase, since I am hardly an expert.

Stop arguing statistics with people who refuse to open their mind to, yet criticize stats, because you will get no where

An under the radar guy I would inquire about is Blake Coleman from NJ. NJ has given up two 3 goal leads and a 4 goal lead. When tied or ahead heading into the 3rd period they are 2-2-4 and are being outscored in the 3rd 19-7. There defense is pretty bad and perhaps they would see someone like Scandella as an upgrade (considering Tennyson is one of their starting D it isn't unreasonable to think Scandella could help). Coleman has another year left at a reasonable $1.8m and would be a good replacement for Sobotka. NJ has almost $5m in cap space.
I know it's not a big fancy trade that people are hoping for, but I think it would be a more likely possibility than some of the proposals I've seen.
- adambuffalo

New name, I like it

New name, I like it
- jcragcrumple

Tennyson plays RD so we will need to add casey nelson as a throw in

http://www.hockeydb.com/i...ons/teams/0070732020.html

that bust Caufield has 1 more point then our 7th round bust

Lost in the 4 goal against defensive meltdown, is that outside of the PP, this team does not generate enough offense, at all.

I’m a big Botterill guy, but he can’t sit on his hands and just trade Scandella for a 3rd and think we will be fine.

They need another offensive weapon.

Do something now
- sbroads24

Some will say 9-2-2 errr... 9-3-2

I posted this yesterday, got no response


what would have happened if a sabre got sick, got hurt during warmups or kicking a soccer ball in the hallway before the game?

we only had 18 healthy skaters traveling
- homiedclown

Not much to discuss really. If Montour and Vesey are playing tonight, they could have dressed last night (assuming they traveled). If they didn't, then they play with 19. It wouldn't be the first time.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0070732020.html

that bust Caufield has 1 more point then our 7th round bust
- homiedclown

Who said he was a bust? Not one person

And one is 18 and the other is 21 so you can't compare the two

few observations

1 .obviously the team is going back to bad habits, they have not played a solid 60 minute game since columbus day

2. the team is starting out the games unfocused

3. lots of lazy plays starting to creep in again

4. pp is struggling

5. coach really doesn't make many in game changes

6. top 3 lines look lost more often then not



7. the only line that seems to be on the same page, the LOG line, has no scoring touch but shows more hustle then the other 3 lines combined

8. e-rod doesn't belong on the ice

9. our best d man the last few games is easily gilmour

10. the december slide may be november this season

the amount of shots allowed is getting out of hand, and the quality of our scoring chances rival the tank years



maybe they will turn it around tonight, but as of now there is legit reason for concern
- homiedclown

Some will say 9-2-2 errr... 9 - 3- 2

https://wmubroncos.com/ne...mu-to-first-nchc-win.aspx

Why Risto is still wearing a Sabres jersey is beyond me. It is so blatantly obvious he is the piece that should be moved out on the back end to acquire a 2C.

Yes I know we have Mitts still developing and Cozens is in the fold but if this team does not want to be picking top 10 for the next two years we need someone who can fill in now.
- Swedish_Jesus

Some would say 9-2-2 errrr... 9-3-2

Who said he was a bust? Not one person

And one is 18 and the other is 21 so you can't compare the two
- gerbe75pts

the great one has 1 more point then our 7th round


that is my point, well really it was to get a rise out of you and you took the bait


internet fishing is so fun

Some would say 9-2-2 errrr... 9-3-2
- IonSabres

we want 4

Our PP is 2nd in the NHL. The reason we are struggling lately is because we aren't getting as many opportunities as we did early on in the year.

From the very beginning, analytics have said this team can't score 5v5 and that our goaltending was operating at a .950%. Goaltending is coming back to Earth and our PP is no longer operating at a 44% clip and low and behold we are 2-3-1 in our last 6.

Screw the fancy stats though this team is 7-0-1 and they are fun to watch and the eye test says otherwise
- Swedish_Jesus

9-2-2 Bro, 9-2-2 errr...9-3-2

Please stop trying to argue statistics with people who don’t understand statistics.

You’ll get absolutely nowhere

Edit - let me rephrase, since I am hardly an expert.

Stop arguing statistics with people who refuse to open their mind to, yet criticize stats, because you will get no where
- sbroads24

Eichel and Reinhart had by far the best Corsi and Fenwick amongst all skaters for either team last night.
They combined for a -6 and 5 shots on goal.

Got my first KO in round 1 last night

Risto I'm coming
- gerbe75pts

Cozens with 4 pts last night

Got my first KO in round 1 last night

- gerbe75pts

They still doing Bum Fights in California I see.

Eichel and Reinhart had by far the best Corsi and Fenwick amongst all skaters for either team last night.
They combined for a -6 and 5 shots on goal.
- adambuffalo

So your entire point is that Washington’s shot attempts went in the net and Eichel and Reinhart’s didn’t?

Is there some sort of conclusion we’re going to arrive at here?

So your entire point is that Washington’s shot attempts went in the net and Eichel and Reinhart’s didn’t?

Is there some sort of conclusion we’re going to arrive at here?
- sbroads24

Just saying that anyone can find stats to try to justify a point without actually having a grasp of what actually happened in a game.

Just saying that anyone can find stats to try to justify a point without actually having a grasp of what actually happened in a game.
- adambuffalo

You used a two period sample, to make a point that stats don’t tell the “whole story”

While purposely leaving out the third period, which we were outshot 15-5, which actually made the full scope of the game lean in favor of Washington in terms expected goal %.

But it’s the stats people who twist them to fit a narrative?

Please stop trying to argue statistics with people who don’t understand statistics.

You’ll get absolutely nowhere

Edit - let me rephrase, since I am hardly an expert.

Stop arguing statistics with people who refuse to open their mind to, yet criticize stats, because you will get no where
- sbroads24

Maybe you’re the one who needs to open your mind to the fact that statistics aren’t nuanced enough to tell the full story.

You sit there and act like you know something the rest of us don’t, like you’re somehow smarter and enlightened by the fact that you have your finger on the pulse of these stats.

What doesn’t occur to you is that we know what these stats say. We simply disagree that they can tell the whole story. We understand that you can pick and chose statistics to paint any picture you would like.

When someone points out obvious facts that contradict the veracity of the stats, you guys simply ignore them and keep on going.

I’ll hear an argument about how shots attempted are an indicator to how well a team is playing and being outshot is a problem. Then when it’s pointed out that the losing team consistently out shoots the winning team, your side goes crickets.

I’ll hear how a Corsi possession statistic means so much, and then our line that dominates that statistic, being one of the best in the NHL, has the worst plus/minus on the team, and again...crickets.

It’s not that I’m not open minded, if I thought they told the whole story I would be as hard core about them as you. I don’t think they do. And the evidence that they don’t is overwhelming.

Here’s a question I would love you to answer. If these advanced stats were so good at telling the whole story, then why do NHL teams employ pro scouts? Why would these organizations spend millions of dollars sending scouts across the league to watch players play? Wouldn’t it make sense to save all that money and just look at the players advanced stats? If they are the gospel you claim them to be, then why do scouts even need to watch the players?

There’s obviously more to the story than the stats can tell. You constantly use them and act as if they are the truth and unimpeachable. And then you insult the people who don’t as if we are stupid and you are enlightened or that we don’t understand statistics. Get over yourself and quit with the condescension.

Maybe you’re the ones who aren’t open minded to the fact that there’s more to the story than the stats can tell.

Maybe you’re the one who needs to open your mind to the fact that statistics aren’t nuanced enough to tell the full story.

You sit there and act like you know something the rest of us don’t, like you’re somehow smarter and enlightened by the fact that you have your finger on the pulse of these stats.

What doesn’t occur to you is that we know what these stats say. We simply disagree that they can tell the whole story. We understand that you can pick and chose statistics to paint any picture you would like.

When someone points out obvious facts that contradict the veracity of the stats, you guys simply ignore them and keep on going.

I’ll hear an argument about how shots attempted are an indicator to how well a team is playing and being outshot is a problem. Then when it’s pointed out that the losing team consistently out shoots the winning team, your side goes crickets.

I’ll hear how a Corsi possession statistic means so much, and then our line that dominates that statistic, being one of the best in the NHL, has the worst plus/minus on the team, and again...crickets.

It’s not that I’m not open minded, if I thought they told the whole story I would be as hard core about them as you. I don’t think they do. And the evidence that they don’t is overwhelming.

Here’s a question I would love you to answer. If these advanced stats were so good at telling the whole story, then why do NHL teams employ pro scouts? Why would these organizations spend millions of dollars sending scouts across the league to watch players play? Wouldn’t it make sense to save all that money and just look at the players advanced stats? If they are the gospel you claim them to be, then why do scouts even need to watch the players?

There’s obviously more to the story than the stats can tell. You constantly use them and act as if they are the truth and unimpeachable. And then you insult the people who don’t as if we are stupid and you are enlightened or that we don’t understand statistics. Get over yourself and quit with the condescension.

Maybe you’re the ones who aren’t open minded to the fact that there’s more to the story than the stats can tell.
- Beethoven

Again, the poster above you intentionally used a 2 period sample, instead of the entire game sample, because it fit their narrative that stats don’t tell the entire story.

But yes, drone on how it’s just me and the pro stats people who are misleading you

“We had more shots and chances but lost a game, stats are meaningless!!”

Just wait until you find out that the football team with the most yards and first downs doesn’t 100% of the time win, just a majority of the time

An under the radar guy I would inquire about is Blake Coleman from NJ. NJ has given up two 3 goal leads and a 4 goal lead. When tied or ahead heading into the 3rd period they are 2-2-4 and are being outscored in the 3rd 19-7. There defense is pretty bad and perhaps they would see someone like Scandella as an upgrade (considering Tennyson is one of their starting D it isn't unreasonable to think Scandella could help). Coleman has another year left at a reasonable $1.8m and would be a good replacement for Sobotka. NJ has almost $5m in cap space.
I know it's not a big fancy trade that people are hoping for, but I think it would be a more likely possibility than some of the proposals I've seen.
- adambuffalo

Pass.
I'd like to aim higher, especially in a trade. You can get Coleman's in FA for not too much.
Bigger fish cost too much in FA, so better off acquiring top 6 talent via a trade.
Coleman isn't 2nd line material, is on pace for 25sh points...barely, barely better than Sobotka points wise, and is nearly 28 now. I'd like someone younger and much better.

If you want to trade for him to be on line 3 by trading Vesey or Sheary, I suppose so, but not much of an improvement there either...I guess, what's the point.

Shoot higher.

Further proof analytics are (frank)ing stupid.
- feetontheair22

Or, or people who don't understand them.
Small sample size, not the be-all-end-all.

Maybe you’re the one who needs to open your mind to the fact that statistics aren’t nuanced enough to tell the full story.

You sit there and act like you know something the rest of us don’t, like you’re somehow smarter and enlightened by the fact that you have your finger on the pulse of these stats.

What doesn’t occur to you is that we know what these stats say. We simply disagree that they can tell the whole story. We understand that you can pick and chose statistics to paint any picture you would like.

When someone points out obvious facts that contradict the veracity of the stats, you guys simply ignore them and keep on going.

I’ll hear an argument about how shots attempted are an indicator to how well a team is playing and being outshot is a problem. Then when it’s pointed out that the losing team consistently out shoots the winning team, your side goes crickets.

I’ll hear how a Corsi possession statistic means so much, and then our line that dominates that statistic, being one of the best in the NHL, has the worst plus/minus on the team, and again...crickets.

It’s not that I’m not open minded, if I thought they told the whole story I would be as hard core about them as you. I don’t think they do. And the evidence that they don’t is overwhelming.

Here’s a question I would love you to answer. If these advanced stats were so good at telling the whole story, then why do NHL teams employ pro scouts? Why would these organizations spend millions of dollars sending scouts across the league to watch players play? Wouldn’t it make sense to save all that money and just look at the players advanced stats? If they are the gospel you claim them to be, then why do scouts even need to watch the players?

There’s obviously more to the story than the stats can tell. You constantly use them and act as if they are the truth and unimpeachable. And then you insult the people who don’t as if we are stupid and you are enlightened or that we don’t understand statistics. Get over yourself and quit with the condescension.

Maybe you’re the ones who aren’t open minded to the fact that there’s more to the story than the stats can tell.
- Beethoven

I think there are few who are interested in, and have ecucated themselves on Advanced Stats realize they don't tell the whole story, but add a perspective to help quantify different aspects of the game and what they see.
There are those who " don't care about your fancy stats and charts" that then embarass themselves by using them incorrectly. That then drives an argument that usually ends badly, like a lot do on here when statements are twisted.

As far as your argument about Scouts employed by Clubs...it seems to support the utility of Advanced Stats, since these Clubs have recently invested in Advanced Stats Depts to augment what their Scouts report...there must be value there right? Why else would Clubs make su h an investment.

Again, they bring clarity and quantification ... not be all, end all...and I haven't heard too many arguing that they are.