From Scott Powers:

The more things change the more they they same the same...this has to change if the hawks have any hope of being in the top 8...let alone having their goalies survive into January.

"This is where the Blackhawks ranked in 5-on-5 defensive categories per 60 minutes last season:

30th in shots on goal against at 33.74
31st in expected goals against at 2.68
31st in scoring chances against at 30.17
31st in high-danger chances against at 13.66

And this is where the Blackhawks rank in those same categories so far this season:

31st in shots on goal against at 35.69
30th in expected goals against at 2.65
30th in scoring chances against at 29.36
30th in high-danger chances against at 12.57"
- bogiedoc

So they’ve got the consistency thing licked?

I feel a trade coming today
- zm333

Don't hold your breath

The triumvirate of Kane, Toews, and Keith, would have to be consulted before anything became official.
- gabriel

Seabrook since he will be here until Y3K.

The Hawks defense might be better, but defensively they are not. I can't count how many times the Hawks have the puck just inside their blueline, and not only can they not compete a pass, but they can't get it out of the zone. Seems to me that once a forward senses the defenseman is going to gain control, they fly out of the zone, Looking for the "stretch" pass/ breakaway. The gaps between the defenseman and forwards are horrible. There is no support. I also don't have enough fingers (and I have a full compliment of them) where I see a defenseman with the puck, and all the forwards being over 15 feet away from the puck.

I guess the trip to So. Cal. was taxing, took the Hawks 57 minutes of playing time to show some energy. This has not only been a problem this year, but the past few years. At some point its not just the coach, but it is the leadership in the room. Isn't that one of the reasons they brought Shaw back?, because the last couple of years the locker room has been too quiet/laid back.

Hawks need a change of culture, starting at the top, and I am sorry to say, the core needs to go, or at least a couple of them, and bring in new faces.

BTW, if it is true that Keith's contract says he has to play power play, what are the ramifications to the Hawks if he doesn't?
- LAHawk

Change of culture is not an overblown perspective. Players must have structure and be accountable. Clearly the correct way yet some players for sure are circumventing the team's on ice results. Either a couple of trades and press box certain players AND OR replace Colliton.

As long as Colliton is head coach, disagreement and failure to follow instructions by players should not be tolerated. If this upsets players just imagine when fans are fed up
And stay away in droves!

Another Top 5 Pick is what they need. Bettman wants the Hawks to be good because of how much money the Chicago Market generates for the NHL, so they will repeat the 2006/2007 scenario to get #1 overall next summer.

Lafrieniere-Dach-Kane is your Fall 2020 First Line
- EnzoD

Please, you are failing to see the main point. It doesn't matter if the Blackhawks are good or not, Bettman just wants the money the team makes for him.
He also loves the fact that McD (a guy who marketed some of the worst Cubs teams) is in the position he is in. Keep putting the team in Stadium series/Overseas games/New Years day games, and sell the jerseys. The only thing a Stanley Cup matters to is the true fans. Rocky is making his money, win or lose.

I think sitting Seabs for two games straight was the opening salvo. Instead of taking a hint, Seabs made the front office feel as though they were engaging in a criminal offense. Seabs probably has a point. The crap they throw in, while Seabs sits, right now isn't that much better.
- gabriel

What I definitely don't want to see are overblown negative PR campaigns like we did with Sharpy to sour the fans on these players or disrespectful treatment of them by the in-house media or coaches, given that they did give us so much to be thankful for over past decade. Their contracts are NOT their fault. Tarnishing their legacy because you are mad that they will not waive the NMCs YOU gave them makes you a crappy person and a terrible manager.

I do think some of them might waive if you have options that are attractive to them. Just not sure those are going to be easy to find.

Are veteran players on any given team, allowed to give input on new coaching hires? Or, is their jurisdiction limited to just playing the game? Looks to me like some players were mortified at Q's heave-ho. And, were less than happy with a new young coach coming in. They act like they still don't agree with that original decision. Maybe time to move some of them?
- gabriel

If you listen to Zawaski (wasn't he a FO mouthpiece at one time?), some of these same players who appear to be unable/unwilling to play for JC were behind the Q firing. They had made it known that his message had gone stale.

[quote=jhawk59]

The Seabrook comments immediately after his healthy scratch demonstrate a complete lack of respect for Colliton. What were Seabrook's comments when Q scratched him? I recall them being A LOT more respectful and mild.

Speaking of culture, looks like the player leaders took it upon themselves to try and rectify one of the issues they said impacted their play over the last couple of years: the cliques and the hierarchy based on tenure:

https://twitter.com/TheAt.../1192153173592608768?s=20

Seems they are trying to do what they can to make it work. What we're seeing now, however, remains inexplicable.

Zawaski has publicly jumped on the fire JC bandwagon:

https://670thescore.radio...n-organization-crossroads

This is not a compete level issue. The Hawks are skating around the ice with no purpose and no structure. Guys don't know where to be and don't know how to properly position themselves for outlet passes, etc.

Hockey is a team sport. I don't see it as a lack of compete. Guys are all over the ice busting their ass. The problem is most of the time its chasing the puck. This 100% a coaching issue and a system issue.

Q was given an absolutely poop roster to start the year and got fired. Brandon Davidson, Fortin, washed up Marcus Kruger, Martinsen, Chris Kunitz, Forsling, Hayden, Luke Johnson, Brandon Manning, Jan Rutta and Carl Dahlstrom were all on the NHL roster last year.

Half those franking guys aren't even in the NHL anymore.

The current roster has a significantly more talent but looks completely lost on the ice. Players are openly stating that they are having issues with the new system.

When you spend 75% of the game chasing the puck you are eventually going to have defensive breakdowns, lose the 1 on 1 battles, and allow bad goals. This team would look significantly better, despite the man on man d system, if it suddenly didn't rely heavily on the dump and chase and could actually maintain possession for more than 5 seconds.

Colliton needs to go. His comment that line combinations weren't part of the issue was the last straw.

Guys like Kane haven't suddenly forgotten how to connect on a pass. On a well coached, structured team, as soon as a player gets the puck he should know what his options are and what he wants to do. No one on this team knows what to do 95% of the time. To me that screams bad coaching and no chemistry with linemates.
- bhawks2241

Totally agree this coach/system has everyone off their game.

Zawaski has publicly jumped on the fire JC bandwagon:

https://670thescore.radio...n-organization-crossroads
- pdx2ord

"Probably one of the best things about Joel, for myself, and for the teams we had ... he allowed us to play the game and not overthink it," Keith said. "Where I think sometimes, the way it is now, it seems like every little situation is already played out for you ... laid out for you ... how to play it. When to me, in hockey you got to be able to read and react and think quickly and be natural out there. That’s kind of what I appreciated about Joel the most."

Zawaski has publicly jumped on the fire JC bandwagon:

https://670thescore.radio...n-organization-crossroads
- pdx2ord

Zawaski quotes Keith in the middle of this article:

"Probably one of the best things about Joel, for myself, and for the teams we had ... he allowed us to play the game and not overthink it," Keith said. "Where I think sometimes, the way it is now, it seems like every little situation is already played out for you ... laid out for you ... how to play it. When to me, in hockey you got to be able to read and react and think quickly and be natural out there. That’s kind of what I appreciated about Joel the most."

Then he goes on to say:

That stood out to me when I first heard it and hasn’t left my head since. The Blackhawks, especially their veteran players, are thinking too much. There's no read-and-react. They look like they’ve forgotten how to play hockey.

I wonder if this isn't to a certain extent the result of relying too much on statistical analysis to run the game - the stats say this should happen so let's make sure to implement this - rather than letting the game determine the action.

This isn't football (or, to a lesser extent, basketball), with set plays and each position has a certain responsibility - hockey is a much more fluid game and relies more on each skater's hockey sense and quick response than on predetermined actions.

If this was my team, I'd get all of "the old core" together in a room, and ask them a simple question:

"Can you, and are you willing to, play for this coach?"

If there is a group consensus of NO, then the solution is easy. Bye bye JC.

If there is a split, then kindly ask those that said "No" if they are willing to waive their NMC - in front of everyone. See what happens. Could be interesting.

If they all say YES, then tell them they are all full of BS and you will be trading every one of them out of town.
- ItHossaGood

THe hawk front office wouldn’t/ shouldn’t do this. Players play for who’ve there coach is in hockey that’s the way it is if the players are allowed to do this hockey Will turn
hockey into that poop show that is basketball with 2/3 super teams and the rest. If the old core players were allowed to bounce jc and pick the next coach what message would it send to all the younger players?

I’d be fine with a new coach but who out there could come in and adapt his coaching style to the players we have now?

savvy posted 8 observations/expectations that were reasonable for optimism coming into this season...i bought all 8.

i thought this team would compete and get a WC and possibly a top 3. I thought the defensive upgrades were good, lehner a huge plus, shaw coming back a plus and the offense continues to score...

other than lehner...its a bust...unless we accept the murphy is the glue to making this defense of anywhere need middle of nhl pack...

the offensive drop off is something i did not expect...

this team has no clue what they are doing offensively; yes they ran into great goaltending: holtby, fluery and mzrak but really vs preds vs sharks vs kings vs flyers just a mess...no identity, no spark, can't pass, can't create, no ozone play at all...

last night it was none and done...they got beat to almost every puck

Zawaski quotes Keith in the middle of this article:

"Probably one of the best things about Joel, for myself, and for the teams we had ... he allowed us to play the game and not overthink it," Keith said. "Where I think sometimes, the way it is now, it seems like every little situation is already played out for you ... laid out for you ... how to play it. When to me, in hockey you got to be able to read and react and think quickly and be natural out there. That’s kind of what I appreciated about Joel the most."

Then he goes on to say:

That stood out to me when I first heard it and hasn’t left my head since. The Blackhawks, especially their veteran players, are thinking too much. There's no read-and-react. They look like they’ve forgotten how to play hockey.

I wonder if this isn't to a certain extent the result of relying too much on statistical analysis to run the game - the stats say this should happen so let's make sure to implement this - rather than letting the game determine the action.

This isn't football (or, to a lesser extent, basketball), with set plays and each position has a certain responsibility - hockey is a much more fluid game and relies more on each skater's hockey sense and quick response than on predetermined actions.
- StLBravesFan

there is a style and a structure teams play...its not all read and react freelancing; however you don't have the time to play algorithems in your head given the rapid reaction decisions that have to be made with the high speed and pace of nhl game..

i heard bowman singing the praises how they see themselves as the envy of the league with their analytics...and how great they are...could it be their implimentation of this is killing this team on the ice...

THe hawk front office wouldn’t/ shouldn’t do this. Players play for who’ve there coach is in hockey that’s the way it is if the players are allowed to do this hockey Will turn
hockey into that poop show that is basketball with 2/3 super teams and the rest. If the old core players were allowed to bounce jc and pick the next coach what message would it send to all the younger players?

I’d be fine with a new coach but who out there could come in and adapt his coaching style to the players we have now?
- Abadseed

Agreed, though I do think they need to figure out whether the players are being given seemingly contradictory direction from the various coaches. They can do this by meeting with all the players 1:1, not just the core. And, unfortunately, it needs to be Rocky or one of the hockey ops guys asking (or a neutral party like an Olcyzk) rather than Stan (conflict-of-interest) or McD (have never gotten impression players trust or like him).

Zawaski quotes Keith in the middle of this article:

"Probably one of the best things about Joel, for myself, and for the teams we had ... he allowed us to play the game and not overthink it," Keith said. "Where I think sometimes, the way it is now, it seems like every little situation is already played out for you ... laid out for you ... how to play it. When to me, in hockey you got to be able to read and react and think quickly and be natural out there. That’s kind of what I appreciated about Joel the most."

Then he goes on to say:

That stood out to me when I first heard it and hasn’t left my head since. The Blackhawks, especially their veteran players, are thinking too much. There's no read-and-react. They look like they’ve forgotten how to play hockey.

I wonder if this isn't to a certain extent the result of relying too much on statistical analysis to run the game - the stats say this should happen so let's make sure to implement this - rather than letting the game determine the action.

This isn't football (or, to a lesser extent, basketball), with set plays and each position has a certain responsibility - hockey is a much more fluid game and relies more on each skater's hockey sense and quick response than on predetermined actions.
- StLBravesFan

That should send alarm bells off over on Madison.

Zawaski quotes Keith in the middle of this article:

"Probably one of the best things about Joel, for myself, and for the teams we had ... he allowed us to play the game and not overthink it," Keith said. "Where I think sometimes, the way it is now, it seems like every little situation is already played out for you ... laid out for you ... how to play it. When to me, in hockey you got to be able to read and react and think quickly and be natural out there. That’s kind of what I appreciated about Joel the most."

Then he goes on to say:

That stood out to me when I first heard it and hasn’t left my head since. The Blackhawks, especially their veteran players, are thinking too much. There's no read-and-react. They look like they’ve forgotten how to play hockey.

I wonder if this isn't to a certain extent the result of relying too much on statistical analysis to run the game - the stats say this should happen so let's make sure to implement this - rather than letting the game determine the action.

This isn't football (or, to a lesser extent, basketball), with set plays and each position has a certain responsibility - hockey is a much more fluid game and relies more on each skater's hockey sense and quick response than on predetermined actions.
- StLBravesFan

That should send alarm bells off over on Madison.

i am not a fire JC guy yet...

but if they do this it has to be a wirtz/mcd decision combo...stanbow goes too...

he should not have the authority to hire another coach...give it to crawford for the rest of the year and then clean house...

how the (frank) do kane, toews, adb, strome go from 60 to 100 pt guys to 30-50 pt guys in 6 months...with an improved roster

i am not a fire JC guy yet...

but if they do this it has to be a wirtz/mcd decision combo...stanbow goes too...

he should not have the authority to hire another coach...give it to crawford for the rest of the year and then clean house...

how the (frank) do kane, toews, adb, strome go from 60 to 100 pt guys to 30-50 pt guys in 6 months...with an improved roster
- bogiedoc

Unless it turns out bringing Crawford in (which I'm still convinced was a FO decision) was the problem and they can toss him.

This has to be on the coach.I like Bowman,yes he has made some mistakes ,but I think JC system does not work for this team.You can’t keep on getting outshot every game by a large margin and expect to win.Its become a joke.Bowman went out this summer and got us better defencemen,got us more grit and we still can play this system.It has to be on the coach.The players look pissed.It doesn’t work.I could imagine what the vets are saying to one another.The locker room is a mess,and we have young guys who see this first hand.Its a bad situation right now and I don’t see it changing any time soon.Go Hawks.

Zawaski quotes Keith in the middle of this article:

"Probably one of the best things about Joel, for myself, and for the teams we had ... he allowed us to play the game and not overthink it," Keith said. "Where I think sometimes, the way it is now, it seems like every little situation is already played out for you ... laid out for you ... how to play it. When to me, in hockey you got to be able to read and react and think quickly and be natural out there. That’s kind of what I appreciated about Joel the most."

Then he goes on to say:

That stood out to me when I first heard it and hasn’t left my head since. The Blackhawks, especially their veteran players, are thinking too much. There's no read-and-react. They look like they’ve forgotten how to play hockey.

I wonder if this isn't to a certain extent the result of relying too much on statistical analysis to run the game - the stats say this should happen so let's make sure to implement this - rather than letting the game determine the action.

This isn't football (or, to a lesser extent, basketball), with set plays and each position has a certain responsibility - hockey is a much more fluid game and relies more on each skater's hockey sense and quick response than on predetermined actions.
- StLBravesFan

That’s big issue. They played a system for so long, they can’t adapt to a new system.

We also can’t take just Keith’s word for it. This is just his perspective. But here’s a tough question, why are some of the players excelling in the system like Nylander, and the old dogs aren’t? If there is so much to think about, why aren’t the new guys also struggling?

Lehner even mentioned way back that the team is right on the cusp of getting it going and then wham! They lose it. Lehner was part of a system just like JC’s in NY, he knows it works.

There isn’t a lot to think about. Trust me when I say this. When you do something for so long and you are told you need to change it and do something else, the person experiencing the change, is the one causing the problem or in this case over thinking it.

That’s big issue. They played a system for so long, they can’t adapt to a new system.

We also can’t take just Keith’s word for it. This is just his perspective. But here’s a tough question, why are some of the players excelling in the system like Nylander, and the old dogs aren’t? If there is so much to think about, why aren’t the new guys also struggling?

Lehner even mentioned way back that the team is right on the cusp of getting it going and then wham! They lose it. Lehner was part of a system just like JC’s in NY, he knows it works.

There isn’t a lot to think about. Trust me when I say this. When you do something for so long and you are told you need to change it and do something else, the person experiencing the change, is the one causing the problem or in this case over thinking it.
- gifman

Toews and Seabs have both made public comments that it's hard to play the new system for them. Kane has made several "just have to figure it out/make it work" comments. So, I don't think this is an old guy v new guy thing. DBC and Strome are struggling, too.

Some of the new players may very well have come from systems that play a similar style to the style JC is trying to implement. Didn't Saad play that kind of game under Torts? Seabs said that for sure DeHaan has been helping him understand it better.

So overthinking may very well be the culprit, but short of jettisoning your entire offense and two major pieces of the D corps, what do you do but give it time?

There (their) (they're) comes a time when a coach needs to be fired. Is JC the problem? Are we sure another coach will get more from the team? Or do we panic after 10 or 12 games when the team is trying to grasp the system of the new coach?
- paulr

Pretty sure it's just a garbage system and this guy doesn't know how to adjust when things don't work.