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Forums :: Blog World :: Tyler Cameron: Blackhawks still consistently inconsistent
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bhawks2241
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 09.17.2013

Nov 4 @ 2:11 PM ET
If they are playing dump and chase when they can't carry it in, then it is exactly what they should be doing. We all complained then they were trying to carry it in all last year and got turned around and said "they need to dump it in". They finally do that, and it's a bad thing????
- Chunk


They are playing more of a dump and chase style. Kane talked about it last week. It is not just a dump it in when we can't skate it in.

I am simply pointing out that this isn't working this year. It is not the same offensive system as last year. The hawks have a more talented roster but are scoring less. Of course the Hawks should dump it in when the other team is clogging the blue line.
PatShart
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Vegas, NV
Joined: 06.25.2015

Nov 4 @ 2:14 PM ET
For one, it is never as easy as saying "they should not let them out there against X line" especially on the road. Second, they are all NHL players now. They will have to learn to play against all different type of lines.
- Chunk


Coaching isnt as easy as saying "heres a system, go do it" or writing 4 lines on a grease board and just rotating as they see fit.

Line matchups isnt easy either. It separates ok coaches to very good good/elite coaches. It's why Scotty wanted Q here vs Savard and why Q gave the Hawks this advantage when he was here. It's why line combinations matter and why players having roles matters and not a philosophy of "if I put you out there and you work hard, it doesn't matter" is fools thinking.

bhawks2241
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 09.17.2013

Nov 4 @ 2:14 PM ET
The system shouldn't have much to do with shooting percentage. It could affect the number of shots, but not as much the percent that go in. Shooting percentage stays pretty consistent, so the Hawks players should be seeing some go in.
- mohel


That is true. I am just going on the interview clips I saw. Mainly Kane talking about how it is a different system this year on offense.

Shouldn't over look the complete lack of production from the back-end. Reason #1 why Boqvist was brought up.
-Doh-
Location: VA
Joined: 10.05.2015

Nov 4 @ 2:20 PM ET
I think if he's your 14th best forward, you're one of the best teams in the league.
- mohel


Yep. You can make the case that Saad and Kubalik have been the Hawks best forwards this season.
StLBravesFan
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 07.03.2011

Nov 4 @ 2:23 PM ET
If they are playing dump and chase when they can't carry it in, then it is exactly what they should be doing. We all complained then they were trying to carry it in all last year and got turned around and said "they need to dump it in". They finally do that, and it's a bad thing????
- Chunk

But if they're doing "dump and chase", they actually have to do the "chase" part, too - they can't just dump it in and not be in position to get into the ozone to create an offense.
Assman22
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: San Francisco, CA
Joined: 04.13.2012

Nov 4 @ 2:27 PM ET
I would do that in a heartbeat.
- DarthKane

Same and I’m a big Beaudin homer. Would bump Strome to wing then I’d think but who knows.
-Doh-
Location: VA
Joined: 10.05.2015

Nov 4 @ 2:32 PM ET
But if they're doing "dump and chase", they actually have to do the "chase" part, too - they can't just dump it in and not be in position to get into the ozone to create an offense.
- StLBravesFan


Good point. Knowing what forwards are on the ice and where they are on the ice is important. Dumping into Saad's corner is different than dumping it into a corner for Kane to go after it against a big physical defender.
jhawk59
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.15.2013

Nov 4 @ 2:39 PM ET
If Bergevin was indeed in attendance to see Beaudin, who is Stan wanting in return? Poehling? Another swap of d-man for forward? Perhaps with Regula on board they are making Beaudin available. I like Beaudin more than Boqvist myself and was hoping they’d be a pairing next season and for the future.
- Assman22

I like Beaudin a lot too. I foresee Mitchell and Beaudin the top two playing good defense. I would not trade as we need a top dman more than a.center. But Toews eventually needs to be replaced. Despite the knocks on Toews by myself, he should remain quite capable in Toews II version another couple seasons. He is maddingly rightfully criticized often though. Especially so early season
LAHawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 11.02.2017

Nov 4 @ 2:44 PM ET
Yep. You can make the case that Saad and Kubalik have been the Hawks best forwards this season.
- -Doh-


I understand the love for Kubalik, but Nylander has been better than Kubalik this year. Also why is everyone taking Nylander off of Toews line?. He lead the team last night in SOG, had 0 giveaways and one takeaway and an assist.. Kubalik was credited for a hit had 1 giveaway and 0 takeaways. Nylander's play away from the puck has been great since the benching and sitting with Colliton watching tape. for the year he has 9 takeaways and 2 giveaways.

It sure seems like the board is anxious to have Nylander fail, because this way they can justify their outrage at Joki being traded for him.
Butcherboy66
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Thorold, ON
Joined: 03.30.2017

Nov 4 @ 2:54 PM ET
Good point, as a C he needs to chirp up the calls - which he has never had any problem in doing

If Toews ever gets a statue in front of the mad house the proper pose would be "Palms Up"

- riozzo

“If?” Is that a joke??
-Doh-
Location: VA
Joined: 10.05.2015

Nov 4 @ 2:56 PM ET
I understand the love for Kubalik, but Nylander has been better than Kubalik this year. Also why is everyone taking Nylander off of Toews line?. He lead the team last night in SOG, had 0 giveaways and one takeaway and an assist.. Kubalik was credited for a hit had 1 giveaway and 0 takeaways. Nylander's play away from the puck has been great since the benching and sitting with Colliton watching tape. for the year he has 9 takeaways and 2 giveaways.

It sure seems like the board is anxious to have Nylander fail, because this way they can justify their outrage at Joki being traded for him.

- LAHawk


If you read my prior post I have Nylander staying on the line with Saad and Toews. But I think Kubalik has been more consistent. He also exhibits a very high hockey IQ.

I think Kubalik, Kampf and Dach would be a pretty decent 3rd line.
LAHawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 11.02.2017

Nov 4 @ 2:59 PM ET
If you read my prior post I have Nylander staying on the line with Saad and Toews. But I think Kubalik has been more consistent. He also exhibits a very high hockey IQ.

I think Kubalik, Kampf and Dach would be a pretty decent 3rd line.

- -Doh-


responding to this post :

very basic coaching solution can give the Hawks some consistency and roles which players need to be successful

Line 1 -
Saad-Toews-Kubilak

Nylander has played well here, but I think Kubilak with those 2 can produce more while playing better defensively. But heres the key - matchups. Play this line against every teams top line. Toews is at his best playing against the other teams top centers. So even if/when he doesn't score, he makes their game difficult. Saad/Kubilak have shown chemistry and this line can be very productive 2 way line

Line 2 -
Debrincat-Strome-Kane

Play this line against the other teams 3rd and 4th line. Hammer this line against those 2 lines and they will produce.

Line 3/4 - dont care how to label them, but it's about matchups -

Caggulia-Kampf-Carpenter
JCs hard on for 64/22 can be used here on playing them against the other teams 2nd scoring line. If hes confident they should be playing against other teams number 1 line...just put them out there vs their number 2 line

Shaw-Dach-Nylander
Play this line against the other teams line 4. Probably shelter their zone starts and all 3 can be used on the PP

Kane can/should be double shifted and to be used as needed on the Kampf or Dach line if/when offense is needed

Last game, Getzlafs line was having their scoring chances/success vs the Strome line...yet never once did the Hawks make changes on the fly - and they had chances. Ita baffling that of the 12 coaches behind the bench, they were even having Boqvist out there with this group vs that line. Why not have DeHaan/Seabrook/Maata against them? But put an 18yr old in his second game against them? Or even Gus?

It's the coaching staffs responsibility to put players in positions to succeed and with the number of coaches they have on the bench, you would think someone can recognize this. The players do....but if they say anything...they're complainers or "stuck in the old way" of doing things. When in fact, they have experienced the highest level of hockey (more than the staff) and can see these basic head scratchers
- PatShart
Assman22
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: San Francisco, CA
Joined: 04.13.2012

Nov 4 @ 3:09 PM ET
I like Beaudin a lot too. I foresee Mitchell and Beaudin the top two playing good defense. I would not trade as we need a top dman more than a.center. But Toews eventually needs to be replaced. Despite the knocks on Toews by myself, he should remain quite capable in Toews II version another couple seasons. He is maddingly rightfully criticized often though. Especially so early season
- jhawk59

Right but don’t forget Regula in London whom was paired with Boq last season. Stan may derm him Beaudin’s replacement and there are zero top 6 center prospects in the pipeline. We’ll see what happens.
HawkintheD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Sick Bay, MI
Joined: 02.22.2012

Nov 4 @ 3:22 PM ET
I understand the love for Kubalik, but Nylander has been better than Kubalik this year. Also why is everyone taking Nylander off of Toews line?. He lead the team last night in SOG, had 0 giveaways and one takeaway and an assist.. Kubalik was credited for a hit had 1 giveaway and 0 takeaways. Nylander's play away from the puck has been great since the benching and sitting with Colliton watching tape. for the year he has 9 takeaways and 2 giveaways.

It sure seems like the board is anxious to have Nylander fail, because this way they can justify their outrage at Joki being traded for him.

- LAHawk


Mo gave Chunk a cookie for "getting it", so I'll now give one to you as well. You are becoming wise in the ways of the BOD young Padawan.
scottak
Location: I am serious. And don't call me Shirley!
Joined: 08.06.2010

Nov 4 @ 3:22 PM ET
Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder even asked about it, why do the refs always seem to call things tighter on the Chicago team than any other team?

If you don't ask the same question, then shame on you, you are buying into a phony rigged up league.

- powerenforcer

Refs hating the Blackhawks is still the result of the Tom Lysiak incident.
If you are too young to remember, boot up your google machine.
scottak
Location: I am serious. And don't call me Shirley!
Joined: 08.06.2010

Nov 4 @ 3:25 PM ET
I'm not saying he is above criticism, but I think a lot of the complaints about Toews and the refs is misguided. I've watched a number of other teams play in the last three weeks and literally every team has a guy that yells at the refs (not always the captain).

The Hawks are not playing all that well, and he hears about it after every game, and has to try and find a new explanation. If he doesn't give any reasons for the poor play, he is "disconnected and doesn't care". If he does give reasons for the poor play, he is "making excuses".

Add all that up with the fact that he is not producing and frustrated with his own play, and I can easily see how he would be mad at a lot of things during the game. Should he back off the refs? Probably. Whether intentional or not, at some point the refs probably would be more critical of his play if he continues. But, he is not really doing anything different than all the other teams.

- Chunk

I also guessing that 19 is frustrated, with his play, the team’s start, etc. Probably a sign tha5 he cares.
HawkintheD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Sick Bay, MI
Joined: 02.22.2012

Nov 4 @ 3:26 PM ET
Right but don’t forget Regula in London whom was paired with Boq last season. Stan may derm him Beaudin’s replacement and there are zero top 6 center prospects in the pipeline. We’ll see what happens.
- Assman22


True but I think your next wave of top 6 centers (77 + 17) are currently playing on the team.
Theo Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.18.2016

Nov 4 @ 3:28 PM ET
I thought Boqvist like to carry the puck out of the dzone. I know it has only been 2 games but I haven't really seen him attempt to do that. Is that a product of the system or is he just playing a more conservative game as he gets his feet wet in the NHL?


Also the Hawks PP yesterday was atrocious at times. I've never seen so much miscommunication in the dzone during a PP. I think it was mainly PP1 that had its clown shoes on.

- bhawks2241

More so in game 2 than game 1, Boqvist has been way more activated offensively in Chicago than Rockford. With the the Hogs he was playing fairly conservative making a quick pass out then playing back.

Happy to see him so active in the O zone. His defensive play is a work in progress, of course, but to be expected as a rookie in his initial trial.

So far so good. Consistency and steady improvement are critical for him to stay up in the big show.
Theo Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.18.2016

Nov 4 @ 3:31 PM ET
Think of it as a man to man defense in basketball with a lot of switching.
- -Doh-

Not critiquing you personally, just the supposed defense strategy.

That seems like it could get confusing really fast. As someone pointed out in an earlier blog, that thinking about who to switch to takes a second or longer which is enough time for the other team to make its next move to score.

And if there's so much switching on the fly rather than sticking to your man, wouldn't it be better to just play a zone?
Theo Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.18.2016

Nov 4 @ 3:33 PM ET
I switch sikrua and highmore for kampf and kubalik. Imo
- Scott1977

I'm a big fan of both Sikura and Highmore but no way should they be replacing Kampf or Kubalik. Ideally Kubalik and Sikura in the top 9 and Kampf and Highmore on the 4th line.

A lineup with all 4 would be nice but there's presently no room at the inn, even if Smith is eventually traded as previously rumored. I like what Carpenter and Caggiula bring to the team, too. Neither should be sitting.
Theo Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.18.2016

Nov 4 @ 3:37 PM ET
I like Beaudin a lot too. I foresee Mitchell and Beaudin the top two playing good defense. I would not trade as we need a top dman more than a.center. But Toews eventually needs to be replaced. Despite the knocks on Toews by myself, he should remain quite capable in Toews II version another couple seasons. He is maddingly rightfully criticized often though. Especially so early season
- jhawk59

I'd be hesitant to trade Beaduin for Poehling. Regula isn't even signed yet and he's more of a work in progress compared to Beaudin so I hope that Regula didn't make Beaudin expendable.

Agree, Mitchell and Beaudin along with Boqvist are your future top 3 if development continues in the positive trajectory so far for each of them. Supplement with other D prospects like Vlasic, Krys, Galvas, and Regula (if the latter two are signed).

If Poehling can be had for a different price, then I'm all ears.
RaleighHawk
Joined: 03.29.2016

Nov 4 @ 3:37 PM ET
Refs hating the Blackhawks is still the result of the Tom Lysiak incident.
If you are too young to remember, boot up your google machine.

- scottak

Was at that game--remember it well.
-Doh-
Location: VA
Joined: 10.05.2015

Nov 4 @ 3:39 PM ET
Not critiquing you personally, just the supposed defense strategy.

That seems like it could get confusing really fast. As someone pointed out in an earlier blog, that thinking about who to switch to takes a second or longer which is enough time for the other team to make its next move to score.

And if there's so much switching on the fly rather than sticking to your man, wouldn't it be better to just play a zone?

- AEL_Fox


I am not saying I like the system or agree with the system. I was just trying to describe it.

In Colliton's system you stay with the puck carrier until there is a convenient time to switch with another player. For example, an opposing forward has a puck in the corner and a Hawk defender is on him. If the forward starts carrying the puck out towards the point the Hawk defender stays with him unless their is a Hawk forward to hand him off to and then the defender would scramble back to a normal defensive position.
Theo Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.18.2016

Nov 4 @ 3:40 PM ET
True but I think your next wave of top 6 centers (77 + 17) are currently playing on the team.
- HawkintheD

I would have to agree. In a few years Dach and Strome are the likely 1C and 2C. Toews as 3C as he goes into the back 9 of his career.

Lots of potential for 4C options: Kampf currently but Johnson is making a name for himself in Rockford, then there's also Highmore, Entwistle, and Hakkarainen.

Wise is starting off strong at BU as a sophomore. Strong faceoff numbers. He and Kurashev could be potential options to replace Toews eventually as 3C.
mohel
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 02.08.2013

Nov 4 @ 3:42 PM ET
I'm a big fan of both Sikura and Highmore but by no way should they be replacing Kampf or Kubalik. Ideally Kubalik and Sikura in the top 9 and Kampf and Highmore on the 4th line.

A lineup with all 4 would be nice but there's presently no room at the inn, even if Smith is eventually traded as previously rumored. I like what Carpenter and Caggiula bring to the team, too. Neither should be sitting.

- AEL_Fox


I can see a buyout of Smith this summer - $1.1M in '20 & '21, rather than $3.25M next year.
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