Go Caps Baby
- BrenosBagels

Hak is the secret agent the Flyers needed.
Moving silently to new teams and making their offense one dimensional.

Go Hak!
- opeth_pa

Could be a chicken/egg kind of thing. Are they struggling to score because they're taking so many point shots? Or are they taking so many point shots because they've been having trouble scoring? You know that old adage about "put the puck on net and good things happen".

Have you ever considered not complaining about something?
- hereticpride

Why are you so weirdly concerned with my comments? Have you considered just ignoring me and moving forward with your life? Idiot.

Hayes and Voracek should get things figured out and start producing regularly. Jake has been a mess for most of the season. I'm just glad the Flyers stopped trying to make Hayes be their number 1 center.

Hayes and Voracek should get things figured out and start producing regularly. Jake has been a mess for most of the season. I'm just glad the Flyers stopped trying to make Hayes be their number 1 center.
- Pixote Andolini

What's messed up with Hayes is that 6 of his 7 points came in a 4-game stretch. The one point he got outside of that was on the PP early on, which he isn't really a regular part of anymore.

With that said, he's still generating chances. There's a big discrepancy between his GF/60 (1.53) and his xGF/60 (2.49), owing to 4.76% on-ice shooting. He's still stuck in that mode the team was in early on where they were playing well but not finishing.

What's messed up with Hayes is that 6 of his 7 points came in a 4-game stretch. The one point he got outside of that was on the PP early on, which he isn't really a regular part of anymore.

With that said, he's still generating chances. There's a big discrepancy between his GF/60 (1.53) and his xGF/60 (2.49), owing to 4.76% on-ice shooting. He's still stuck in that mode the team was in early on where they were playing well but not finishing.
- Tomahawk

There has been enough benefit of the doubt given. Generating chances is not good enough. I don't want to just single out Hayes. The offensive production from Giroux, Voracek, vanRiemsdyke and Hayes has not been good enough to this point of the season.

There has been enough benefit of the doubt given. Generating chances is not good enough. I don't want to just single out Hayes. The offensive production from Giroux, Voracek, vanRiemsdyke and Hayes has not been good enough to this point of the season.
- MJL

He hasn't crossed the line over the being a drag yet. Until then, I'm satisfied with him just being a net positive for the team, even if he's not putting up many points.

And this is coming from somebody who *hated* that trade from day 1.

He hasn't crossed the line over the being a drag yet. Until then, I'm satisfied with him just being a net positive for the team, even if he's not putting up many points.

And this is coming from somebody who *hated* that trade from day 1.
- Tomahawk

No offense but I think you should raise your standard of being satisfied. Tell me that we didn't sign him a 7M 7 year deal to be a non point producing checking line center? I can confidently speculate that if the Flyers knew that all he was going to be was a checking defensive center, they wouldn't have targeted him and signed him to that deal. I'm confident that the expectation the Flyers have is for Hayes to be a 2 way second line center who is productive offensively.
To be clear, I expect Hayes to produce better as the season goes along but there is no doubt that to this point of the season, he has to be better. Maybe it starts tonight.

No offense but I think you should raise your standard of being satisfied. Tell me that we didn't sign him a 7M 7 year deal to be a non point producing checking line center? I can confidently speculate that if the Flyers knew that all he was going to be was a checking defensive center, they wouldn't have targeted him and signed him to that deal. I'm confident that the expectation the Flyers have is for Hayes to be a 2 way second line center who is productive offensively.
To be clear, I expect Hayes to produce better as the season goes along but there is no doubt that to this point of the season, he has to be better. Maybe it starts tonight.
- MJL

We know he's never gonna be able to live up to that cap hit, so I can't realistically base my expectations off that #.

His underlying #'s and the way he looks on the ice seem to suggest he's contributing in a lot of ways, outside of points. Points are important, but I'm a lot happier with what Hayes has provided so far, as opposed to somebody like Lecavalier who scored some goals early on but was a complete mess in every other respect.

Just a matter of time before his line starts cashing in on more chances.

We know he's never gonna be able to live up to that cap hit, so I can't realistically base my expectations off that #.

His underlying #'s and the way he looks on the ice seem to suggest he's contributing in a lot of ways, outside of points. Points are important, but I'm a lot happier with what Hayes has provided so far, as opposed to somebody like Lecavalier who scored some goals early on but was a complete mess in every other respect.

Just a matter of time before his line starts cashing in on more chances.
- Tomahawk

In my opinion if he can put up around the 20 goal 45 point mark or a little higher and bring the same sound play away from the puck, he will live up to the cap hit. It's just a question of for how many years can he do that.

As far as your Lecavalier comment, goals scored are worth more on the scoreboard offensively than scoring chances or expected goals. Again, I question the standard you're using.

As far as your Lecavalier comment, goals scored are worth more on the scoreboard offensively than scoring chances or expected goals. Again, I question the standard you're using.
- MJL

Are you saying you'd prefer 33-yo VL to Hayes right now?

Are you saying you'd prefer 33-yo VL to Hayes right now?
- Tomahawk

LOL. Not sure where your getting that from. I'm saying that goals actually scored are more valuable to a team than scoring chances or expected goals. In my opinion based on a number of posts you've made, you value the latter way too much. Expected goals is fantasy.

LOL. Not sure where your getting that from. I'm saying that goals actually scored are more valuable to a team than scoring chances or expected goals. In my opinion based on a number of posts you've made, you value the latter way too much. Expected goals is fantasy.
- MJL

High scoring chance and expected goals generation rates are predictive of future sustained production.

A few goals aren't predictive of much, as we saw from VL's decline.

Predictive is important here because we're talking about a guy on game 17 of a 7-year deal.

High scoring chance and expected goals generation rates are predictive of future sustained production.

A few goals aren't predictive of much, as we saw from VL's decline.

Predictive is important here because we're talking about a guy on game 17 of a 7-year deal.
- Tomahawk

Again, way too much value on these stats. They aren't really that good. At what point does he stop getting a pass? Your predictive stats don't show up on the scoreboard. Scoring goals actually does.
Your insistence on bringing up Lecavalier is a strawman argument. Lecavalier was a good player in his early days as a Flyer until his back injury did him in. No spreadsheet available to predict that.

Here is the bottom line and there aren't any stats that can change it. Offensively after 17 games, Hayes has not been good enough. He has 3 points at 5 on 5 through 17 games. One more than Pitlick. Along with the other veteran high price players the team is counting on for offensive production.

High scoring chance and expected goals generation rates are predictive of future sustained production.

A few goals aren't predictive of much, as we saw from VL's decline.

Predictive is important here because we're talking about a guy on game 17 of a 7-year deal.
- Tomahawk

A bird in hand is worth more than 2 in the bush

I would rather have actual goals than the expectation that they may or may not come.

That is not saying anything about any players, past or present, just that EXPECTED goals for are not ACTUAL foals for

A bird in hand is worth more than 2 in the bush

I would rather have actual goals than the expectation that they may or may not come.

That is not saying anything about any players, past or present, just that EXPECTED goals for are not ACTUAL foals for
- corduroy

Expected goals is a fantasy. It is a made up stat. It's not real. It's a wide ranging guess about what is expected to happen in certain situations. Has really no value.

Why are you so weirdly concerned with my comments? Have you considered just ignoring me and moving forward with your life? Idiot.
- SuperSchennBros

If only this site had an ignore feature

Just sayin....

If only this site had an ignore feature

Just sayin....
- BiggE

The site absolutely has an ignore feature. What sense does it make to post what you just posted? If you want to ignore someone than do so? Why can't you just do that instead of this?

Just sayin.....

The site absolutely has an ignore feature. What sense does it make to post what you just posted? If you want to ignore someone than do so? Why can't you just do that instead of this?

Just sayin.....
- MJL

Well, you could have just ignored it.

Well, you could have just ignored it.
- BiggE

Well, you could have just ignored it.
- BiggE

Of course I could've. Same as you could've. I exercise the ignore feature of the website on a daily basis.

If only this site had an ignore feature

Just sayin....
- BiggE

Well it would certainly limit the stupid on here.

I come on here, Fearner is doing his same song and dance of complaining about Chris Stewart. A player who has no expectations, makes the league minimum and not even playing and in the same breath making fun of those who are speaking up about Hayes’ 7 points in 17 games and how disappointing his contract is looking. I point of the obvious, that Chris Stewart in comparison is Kevin Hayes is a none issue. Hereticpride’s response is to tell me to stop complaining in a room where all the people do is complain. Wow, guy! You win the gold award for cluelessness.

Just saying...

Of course I could've. Same as you could've. I exercise the ignore feature of the website on a daily basis.
- MJL

You do? How refreshing.

Go Flyers.

Just thought I'd share this. The good 'ol PC double standard.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1194394539655647233