So if they’re such a poor offensive team why are they putting up offense consistently now?

Ok so let’s play out your scenario: nobody is taking Parise or Suter and if you trade Zucc you now hurt your credibility to bring in other free agents. So now you have a terrible hockey team, you STILL have those aging players. You then still have to draft and develop and even when those players are ready you still aren’t competing because you’re saddled with bad contracts and your fan base is mad because you’ve been so bad for so long.

I said it earlier. If they’re not truly going to be a contender until after Parise and Suter is gone then you might as well be competitive while you can and try to appease your fans, continue to bring in revenue

Marketing has nothing to do with team direction and upper management decisions btw
- WSCTeton17

I agree, that's why they're screwed. Those 2 will take 15M of the cap for the next 6 years, so even is you start rebuilding now, they're just a bigger problem when you want to be competitive. With Zucc, that's 21M for 5 years.

They don't really have much in tradable assets, so they could try and stay competitive for a couple years before rebuilding in earnest, because it's hard to sell your fans on a 6 year rebuild.

So if they’re such a poor offensive team why are they putting up offense consistently now?

Ok so let’s play out your scenario: nobody is taking Parise or Suter and if you trade Zucc you now hurt your credibility to bring in other free agents. So now you have a terrible hockey team, you STILL have those aging players. You then still have to draft and develop and even when those players are ready you still aren’t competing because you’re saddled with bad contracts and your fan base is mad because you’ve been so bad for so long.

I said it earlier. If they’re not truly going to be a contender until after Parise and Suter is gone then you might as well be competitive while you can and try to appease your fans, continue to bring in revenue

Marketing has nothing to do with team direction and upper management decisions btw
- WSCTeton17

"Consistently" as in a 4 game stretch?

If Lucic can be traded, then so can Parise and Suter. Zucc should have known what he was getting into by signing in MIN. If he wanted a sure thing, he probably should have signed elsewhere.

Smart hockey fans understand the logic behind selling off older assets when they still have value for the purposes of rebuilding. Those same fans will appreciate high draft picks more than they will being average to below average for a decade. Look at the Detroit model for how to drag out a rebuild way longer than you should. I think treading water indefinitely would make them madder and more disinterested than a rebuild.

I mentioned marketing because it seems you are a cheerleader for a painfully obvious below average team that is going nowhere anytime soon. Maybe you can convince some of their fans that they are on the cusp of great things.

I agree, that's why they're screwed. Those 2 will take 15M of the cap for the next 6 years, so even is you start rebuilding now, they're just a bigger problem when you want to be competitive. With Zucc, that's 21M for 5 years.

They don't really have much in tradable assets, so they could try and stay competitive for a couple years before rebuilding in earnest, because it's hard to sell your fans on a 6 year rebuild.
- Tojo.

I think it's harder to sell them on what they're doing now for 6 more years and then have nothing to show for the assets they let devalue to zero and no top 5 draft picks to get excited about.

They still have guys like Zucc, Zucker, Staal, and Spurgeon who have a lot of value now and won't be around for the eventual rebuild anyway. I think Suter is absolutely tradeable, even with his contract. Hell, I'd even advocate for a team like the Pens acquiring him. JJ for Suter straight up (with sweetener(s) if needed). Now we have Suter, Dumo, and Petts on the left side and the Wild are off the hook for a huge, long contract. Suter's contract won't matter to us after the window closes. They can buy out JJ this offseason and pay $1M per for 4 years or whatever it is.

I think it's harder to sell them on what they're doing now for 6 more years and then have nothing to show for the assets they let devalue to zero.

They still have guys like Zucc, Zucker, Staal, and Spurgeon who have a lot of value now and won't be around for the eventual rebuild anyway. I think Suter is absolutely tradeable, even with his contract. Hell, I'd even advocate for a team like the Pens acquiring him. JJ for Suter straight up (with sweetener(s) if needed). Now we have Suter, Dumo, and Petts on the left side and the Wild are off the hook for a huge, long contract. Suter's contract won't matter to us after the window closes. They can buy out JJ this offseason and pay $1M per for 4 years or whatever it is.
- Hockey66

I'd put Zucc in the hard to trade group. He's with the Wild because that was the only GM willing to give him 5 years.

I'm a Suter fan, and if they're taking JJ it might be worth it, but he's turning 35 this season so that's probably a high risk. I'd be surprised if they can move him.

Zucker, Staal, Brodin, and Spurgeon (if they don't keep him since he just signed an extension) are their best assets an they aren't pulling in that much right now aside from Spurgeon.

On the flip side, their top prospect should come to the NHL next year, so they'll hope he helps and if they fix the goaltending, maybe they're competitive. But I still think think they're screwed either way.

"Consistently" as in a 4 game stretch?

If Lucic can be traded, then so can Parise and Suter. Zucc should have known what he was getting into by signing in MIN. If he wanted a sure thing, he probably should have signed elsewhere.

Smart hockey fans understand the logic behind selling off older assets when they still have value for the purposes of rebuilding. Those same fans will appreciate high draft picks more than they will being average to below average for a decade. Look at the Detroit model for how to drag out a rebuild way longer than you should. I think treading water indefinitely would make them madder and more disinterested than a rebuild.

I mentioned marketing because it seems you are a cheerleader for a painfully obvious below average team that is going nowhere anytime soon. Maybe you can convince some of their fans that they are on the cusp of great things.
- Hockey66

I’ll start by saying that they just beat a competitive AZ team and are 3-2-1 in November

I don’t know where you got this “4 game” figure from for consistency. I used November earlier which was 5 games now 6. So it was 17 in 5 and now 20 goals in 6 games. They averaged 2 goals per game for 7 games. Just because you don’t know Richard about other teams and someone else knows a bit doesn’t make them a cheerleader. I actually don’t like the Wild at all - 1) I’m from a Vancouver suburb and 2) the Wild fans in ND are super annoying.

Have you watched them this year? They were a disconnected mess to start the season and they’ve since pulled their poop together. Since averaging 2 goals per for 7 games they’ve averaged exactly 3 goals per game since. Corner. Turned.

Parise and Lucic are not trade comparables whatsoever. The role Lucic was expected to fill he will likely continue to fill for his career. People who thought Neal would 100% not rebound are just silly. Parise has a 9, 9! Year buyout. His cap hit is huge and he’s not even performing now so he just has so much negative value to every team out there

You can talk to Feds about what happened in Detroit but Minnesota is not doing what they did at all. Detroit had ton, like a dozen, very talented hockey players retire or a few leave as free agents the likes of which this league may never see again. Holmstrom, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Franzen, Cleary, Holmstrom, Hudler, Osgood, Rafalski, Samuelsson. Then their GM responded by overpaying bottom 6 players. Minnesota doesn’t have that, they just have an expiring Koivu, and Rask who was brought in by a GM who lasted under a year

MN has a great D corps, they’re meh up front but they can facilitate schemes under Boudreau, but they’ve been garbage in goal.

They’ll have $10MM in cap space next year for a 1A goalie (4-5MM?) and to re-sign their RFAs and Koivu

I get what you’re saying: they’re not going to be a contender anytime soon, but as Tojo and I said blowing it up probably doesn’t get you there anytime quicker either but it probably loses them revenue

Free agent goalies who could be a 1A for the Wild or any other team next year: Lehner, Crawford, Markstrom, Greiss, Khudobin, Halak

I would also note: I’ve been told the Coyotes are looking to move Raanta but they’re not looking for a goalie in return

I’ll start by saying that they just beat a competitive AZ team and are 3-2-1 in November

I don’t know where you got this “4 game” figure from for consistency. I used November earlier which was 5 games now 6. So it was 17 in 5 and now 20 goals in 6 games. They averaged 2 goals per game for 7 games. Just because you don’t know Richard about other teams and someone else knows a bit doesn’t make them a cheerleader. I actually don’t like the Wild at all - 1) I’m from a Vancouver suburb and 2) the Wild fans in ND are super annoying.

Have you watched them this year? They were a disconnected mess to start the season and they’ve since pulled their poop together. Since averaging 2 goals per for 7 games they’ve averaged exactly 3 goals per game since. Corner. Turned.

Parise and Lucic are not trade comparables whatsoever. The role Lucic was expected to fill he will likely continue to fill for his career. People who thought Neal would 100% not rebound are just silly. Parise has a 9, 9! Year buyout. His cap hit is huge and he’s not even performing now so he just has so much negative value to every team out there

You can talk to Feds about what happened in Detroit but Minnesota is not doing what they did at all. Detroit had ton, like a dozen, very talented hockey players retire or a few leave as free agents the likes of which this league may never see again. Holmstrom, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Franzen, Cleary, Holmstrom, Hudler, Osgood, Rafalski, Samuelsson. Then their GM responded by overpaying bottom 6 players. Minnesota doesn’t have that, they just have an expiring Koivu, and Rask who was brought in by a GM who lasted under a year

MN has a great D corps, they’re meh up front but they can facilitate schemes under Boudreau, but they’ve been garbage in goal.

They’ll have $10MM in cap space next year for a 1A goalie (4-5MM?) and to re-sign their RFAs and Koivu

I get what you’re saying: they’re not going to be a contender anytime soon, but as Tojo and I said blowing it up probably doesn’t get you there anytime quicker either but it probably loses them revenue
- WSCTeton17

You said they scored 17 goals in the last 5 games, but the last game of that stretch they scored 1, so really it's only a 4 game stretch of "consistent" offense.

You're right, you know more than me. The Wild should just keep doing what they're doing, whatever the hell that is.

My point about Parise and Lucic is that you said Parise is untradeable. Parise is still a good hockey player. Lucic is a terrible hockey player. Parise only costs $2M+ more and his contract is only 2 years longer, ergo Parise is absolutely tradeable. In fact, no player is untouchable and no player is untradeable. Ever. People should stop using those terms.

My comparison between MIN and DET is that both are/were trying to stay competitive when it is/was pretty clear they should begin the rebuild and get something for their aging stars. Look at OTT as an example. They made it to the ECF a short while ago, but it soon became clear that a rebuild was their best option and now look how many draft picks they have in the next two drafts.

Of the FA goalies you mentioned, Dubnyk has just as good a chance of rebounding and being as good as any of those has-beens / never-weres. Or take your pick of any of those goalies and MIN will still suck.

"Consistently" as in a 4 game stretch?

If Lucic can be traded, then so can Parise and Suter. Zucc should have known what he was getting into by signing in MIN. If he wanted a sure thing, he probably should have signed elsewhere.

Smart hockey fans understand the logic behind selling off older assets when they still have value for the purposes of rebuilding. Those same fans will appreciate high draft picks more than they will being average to below average for a decade. Look at the Detroit model for how to drag out a rebuild way longer than you should. I think treading water indefinitely would make them madder and more disinterested than a rebuild.

I mentioned marketing because it seems you are a cheerleader for a painfully obvious below average team that is going nowhere anytime soon. Maybe you can convince some of their fans that they are on the cusp of great things.
- Hockey66

If Lucic would keep up the no prisoners act I’d gladly take him. When that douche slashed the goalie and Luc just immediately (frank)ed him up was brilliant, how it should always be.

If Lucic would keep up the no prisoners act I’d gladly take him. When that douche slashed the goalie and Luc just immediately (frank)ed him up was brilliant, how it should always be.
- Grinder47

I tend to agree with you that one cheap shot deserves another right back. Staged fights are complete nonsense. In that instance, though, I'm not sure that slash deserved a full-on sucker punch. Maybe a slash back or an aggressive face wash. But, point made. As for Lucic, I want no part of him on the Pens and any sensible GM wouldn't, either.

I tend to agree with you that one cheap shot deserves another right back. Staged fights are complete nonsense. In that instance, though, I'm not sure that slash deserved a full-on sucker punch. Maybe a slash back or an aggressive face wash. But, point made. As for Lucic, I want no part of him on the Pens and any sensible GM wouldn't, either.
- Hockey66

No (frank) that. Make a point, someone slashed your goalie put them in the hospital. If that poop happened every time players just wouldn’t take an extra wack. Facewashing and slashing and hacking is for little girls like Hornqvist. McDavid probably hates having Kassian and Lucic on the team too.

I’ll start by saying that they just beat a competitive AZ team and are 3-2-1 in November

I don’t know where you got this “4 game” figure from for consistency. I used November earlier which was 5 games now 6. So it was 17 in 5 and now 20 goals in 6 games. They averaged 2 goals per game for 7 games. Just because you don’t know Richard about other teams and someone else knows a bit doesn’t make them a cheerleader. I actually don’t like the Wild at all - 1) I’m from a Vancouver suburb and 2) the Wild fans in ND are super annoying.

Have you watched them this year? They were a disconnected mess to start the season and they’ve since pulled their poop together. Since averaging 2 goals per for 7 games they’ve averaged exactly 3 goals per game since. Corner. Turned.

Parise and Lucic are not trade comparables whatsoever. The role Lucic was expected to fill he will likely continue to fill for his career. People who thought Neal would 100% not rebound are just silly. Parise has a 9, 9! Year buyout. His cap hit is huge and he’s not even performing now so he just has so much negative value to every team out there

You can talk to Feds about what happened in Detroit but Minnesota is not doing what they did at all. Detroit had ton, like a dozen, very talented hockey players retire or a few leave as free agents the likes of which this league may never see again. Holmstrom, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Franzen, Cleary, Holmstrom, Hudler, Osgood, Rafalski, Samuelsson. Then their GM responded by overpaying bottom 6 players. Minnesota doesn’t have that, they just have an expiring Koivu, and Rask who was brought in by a GM who lasted under a year

MN has a great D corps, they’re meh up front but they can facilitate schemes under Boudreau, but they’ve been garbage in goal.

They’ll have $10MM in cap space next year for a 1A goalie (4-5MM?) and to re-sign their RFAs and Koivu

I get what you’re saying: they’re not going to be a contender anytime soon, but as Tojo and I said blowing it up probably doesn’t get you there anytime quicker either but it probably loses them revenue
- WSCTeton17

Your sample size is ass, my dude. And for a guy who is as into hockey as you are you should know better than to point to an isolated game of the Wild beating a good team as evidence of anything. Hockey isn’t basketball or football where the better team should be expected to win any given game with no excuse. Upsets are common in this sport. The Wild stink.

Let's figure out the Penguins problems before we delve into Minnesota's.

Or do our problems start and stop with one or two individuals.

Workflow at practice: (Pens Inside Scoop)

Guentzel-Malkin-Rust
Galchenyuk-Bjugstad-Lafferty
Kahun-McCann-Simon
ZAR-Blueger-Tanev

As much as I like Kahun and McCann I would call that the fourth line. Maybe they can carry Simon like Sid and Jake did. Although that was a very good assist on that McCann goal. I especially liked how Simon didn't completely fall down when he tripped over the puck there.

Let's figure out the Penguins problems before we delve into Minnesota's.

Or do our problems start and stop with one or two individuals.

Workflow at practice: (Pens Inside Scoop)

Guentzel-Malkin-Rust
Galchenyuk-Bjugstad-Lafferty
Kahun-McCann-Simon
ZAR-Blueger-Tanev

As much as I like Kahun and McCann I would call that the fourth line. Maybe they can carry Simon like Sid and Jake did. Although that was a very good assist on that McCann goal. I especially liked how Simon didn't completely fall down when he tripped over the puck there.
- Thunderbolt

Even without Sid, having watched every game this season (missed a few periods) and having seen how all these guys are battling and complementing each other, I like that forward group.

EDIT: Just need Galch and Bjugs to produce a little bit each to make up for losing Sids production. I dont think Bjugs has been that bad he just hasn't been producing. I've seen things Ive liked about his game, usually away from puck.

Even without Sid, having watched every game this season (missed a few periods) and having seen how all these guys are battling and complementing each other, I like that forward group.

EDIT: Just need Galch and Bjugs to produce a little bit each to make up for losing Sids production. I dont think Bjugs has been that bad he just hasn't been producing. I've seen things Ive liked about his game, usually away from puck.
- MattStrat

Bjugstad and Galchenyuk have both put up numbers in the past, but does anyone think their games will mix?

Bjugstad was pretty successful last year playing that grinding game with 9 goals and 14 points in 32 games. Galchenyuk probably needs a playmaking center, and that isn't Bjugstad. That line is basically spare parts and I'd be surprised if either player breaks out there.

Bjugstad and Galchenyuk have both put up numbers in the past, but does anyone think their games will mix?

Bjugstad was pretty successful last year playing that grinding game with 9 goals and 14 points in 32 games. Galchenyuk probably needs a playmaking center, and that isn't Bjugstad. That line is basically spare parts and I'd be surprised if either player breaks out there.
- Tojo.

Probably not but does anyone think the lines will stick? Sully has his big line blender plugged in behind the bench every game.

EDIT: or that line could end up becoming the 4th haha

Sick Poulin goal:

https://t.co/c2NOueJUHX

Up to 16 g, 37 pts in 19 games. Had 27 g, 76 pts in 67 games last year, major improvement from what got him picked in the 1st round.

Sick Poulin goal:

https://t.co/c2NOueJUHX

Up to 16 g, 37 pts in 19 games. Had 27 g, 76 pts in 67 games last year, major improvement from what got him picked in the 1st round.
- Tojo.

Wow...just shy of 2 PPG. Thats impressive, yes its the Q, but still impressive.

Probably not but does anyone think the lines will stick? Sully has his big line blender plugged in behind the bench every game.

EDIT: or that line could end up becoming the 4th haha
- MattStrat

It is their 4th, the Blueger line is the 3rd like the Isles no matter how they list is. But I'd flip Simon and Galchenyuk just to give both players a chance.

Probably not but does anyone think the lines will stick? Sully has his big line blender plugged in behind the bench every game.

EDIT: or that line could end up becoming the 4th haha
- MattStrat

The time for moving Bjugstad to wing is coming soon. I realize the coaching staff likes him taking draws as a right hander, the only that does it with consistently. That doesn't mean he can't play wing and take some draws.

It looks like Lafferty is going to be here for a while. This is a big opportunity for him, I think he will do fine.

Wow...just shy of 2 PPG. Thats impressive, yes its the Q, but still impressive.
- MattStrat

What I like is when I see highlights of Poulin, it's a lot of points coming from down low and around the net at ES, not just feasting on PP time, which gives me hope his offense will transfer like Guentzel. I'm not saying 40 goals, just that he doesn't look like he'll need PP time to succeed.

What I like is when I see highlights of Poulin, it's a lot of points coming from down low and around the net at ES, not just feasting on PP time, which gives me hope his offense will transfer like Guentzel. I'm not saying 40 goals, just that he doesn't look like he'll need PP time to succeed.
- Tojo.

Yeah he goes to those dirty areas which is great. He doesnt need to score 40...I'd be fine if he turned into a 20ish/20ish guy...

Your sample size is ass, my dude. And for a guy who is as into hockey as you are you should know better than to point to an isolated game of the Wild beating a good team as evidence of anything. Hockey isn’t basketball or football where the better team should be expected to win any given game with no excuse. Upsets are common in this sport. The Wild stink.
- Victoro311

I didn’t say their recent streak is gospel. I even added a note that just because they are scoring right now doesn’t mean it will continue, except that has been continuing. So really you just repeated what I said. The Wild are 3-2-1 in their last 6. That’s a fact. They’ve averaged 3 goals per game in their last 12 games or whatever, that doesn’t “stink” at all.

I’ve said many many times that long averages are used way too often as gospel and they shouldn’t be. One of the websites that explains the fancy stats (war on ice maybe?) even says these are all just indicators and I highlighted that paragraph in the past.

All teams go hot and cold and some teams turn corners. My opinion is that this Wild team has turned a corner but their goaltending has been holding them back

You want to use historical stats? The Wild are now healthy and added Zucc but their offense dried up to start the season - but wait, hockey reference shows their 5v5 xGF as +24 last year. That’s historical. Shouldn’t that be an indicator? Since they added and didn’t subtract offense doesn’t that then mean that the first 7 games of the season are the actual outlier?

Poulin
- Tojo.

Never understood why he was so low on the draft lists... maybe he rebuffed some of the scouts daughters.

Never understood why he was so low on the draft lists... maybe he rebuffed some of the scouts daugthers.
- VeryModernMan

Skating was a concern, but I've already seen a couple scouts say it's noticably better this year. Production wasn't overwhelming.

Honestly, maybe just part of how deep this draft was. The players picked before and after him both made their teams out of camp for a tryout and they're defensemen.

Anyone got the low down on Jesse’s new piece talking about how Galchenyuk sucks?