I’m trying to understand. I started out with the Flyer’s goals scored per game stat of 2.89. You agree it’s low? Are you of the opinion that this in low based on just a few players underperforming? Bad puck luck? What?
- NC Flyers Fan

You ended your post with a SHOOT comment and the facts show that qty of shots isnt the problem .I didn't look any deeper at the metrics then just base shots so it might be a quality shots issue.

I am of the opinion that over the course of the season average, slightly above average teams go through goal scoring droughts. Hell even the top teams have periods where for whatever reason they arent scoring.

Statistically speaking the big four on this team are the reason the FLyers offensive numbers are down. Of those 4 Giroux is the only plus player. Coots gets a bit of a pass because his line is carrying the team even if he , individually , hasnt delivered the results yet offensively.

Jake and JVR however being off to such a slow start is some combo of confidence and everything else.

Anyone hammering on Coots is ruthless in their opinions.

He's injured.

Anyone hammering on Coots is ruthless in their opinions.

He's injured.
- Pompous

Too injured to produce
Not inured enough to not play
Cant have it both ways.

I have become as big a fan of Coots as there is on this board. I truly view him with Provy, TK, Hart, Sanheim, Meyers as being the only players I see as untouchable.

He has 13 points and is a -2 in 19 games. That warrants getting called out to an extent though it is mitigated by the fact that the rest of his line is carrying the team and defensively he gets all the tough assignments.

I can't wrap my head around the start they got off to last night only to have it collapse like it did.

Teams with less talent win games more often then not by outworking the opponent. That is what happened last night after the first period.

In the course of an 82 game season, team lose games to inferior teams all the time. Good teams avoid losing streaks, win tonight and get back on track.

Teams with less talent win games more often then not by outworking the opponent. That is what happened last night after the first period.

In the course of an 82 game season, team lose games to inferior teams all the time. Good teams avoid losing streaks, win tonight and get back on track.
- PLindbergh31

Your last paragraph nails it for me.


Beat a good, though I think over-performing, Islanders team tonight and the loss of last night starts to fade a bit.

Lose again tonight and we now have a three game losing streak and that can snowball quickly.

You ended your post with a SHOOT comment and the facts show that qty of shots isnt the problem .I didn't look any deeper at the metrics then just base shots so it might be a quality shots issue.

I am of the opinion that over the course of the season average, slightly above average teams go through goal scoring droughts. Hell even the top teams have periods where for whatever reason they arent scoring.

Statistically speaking the big four on this team are the reason the FLyers offensive numbers are down. Of those 4 Giroux is the only plus player. Coots gets a bit of a pass because his line is carrying the team even if he , individually , hasnt delivered the results yet offensively.

Jake and JVR however being off to such a slow start is some combo of confidence and everything else.
- opeth_pa

27 shots was much too low last night given the opportunities. As far a quality goes, I normally like quality over quantity. However, when results are not there, an increase in attempts is usually a good way to break through. For instance, I can’t stand reading how “so-and-so” is really struggling to score and see that he has zero shots on goal.

I am not as low on Giroux as some. I didn’t think he played badly last night; his linemates minus Raffl struggled mightily. And Raffl is not ideal on that line. Coots is hurt. JVR can’t seem to finish. Jake is thinking too much. Something is up with Hayes.

I would have like to see more of TK and Lindblom on the PP. Maybe a new mixed unit.

I am counting the days for Laughton to return. They need him 5 on 5.

Too injured to produce
Not inured enough to not play
Cant have it both ways.

I have become as big a fan of Coots as there is on this board. I truly view him with Provy, TK, Hart, Sanheim, Meyers as being the only players I see as untouchable.

He has 13 points and is a -2 in 19 games. That warrants getting called out to an extent though it is mitigated by the fact that the rest of his line is carrying the team and defensively he gets all the tough assignments.
- opeth_pa

Couturier has an injured shoulder. Who knows the severity of it. If Laughton and Patrick weren't injured Couturier may not even be playing now. IMO Giroux, Voracek, and JVR have to start producing more. They haven't been very good overall.

And Hayes hasn't scored a point in 9 straight games. Unacceptable. If I look at forwards in the NHL making 7+ million how many of them currently have a longer streak than that? Without even looking probably no one.

Couturier has an injured shoulder. Who knows the severity of it. If Laughton and Patrick weren't injured Couturier may not even be playing now. IMO Giroux, Voracek, and JVR have to start producing more. They haven't been very good overall.

And Hayes hasn't scored a point in 9 straight games. Unacceptable. If I look at forwards in the NHL making 7+ million how many of them currently have a longer streak than that? Without even looking probably no one.
- PLindbergh31

Man I somehow forgot Hayes.

Currently Giroux, Coots, Jake , Jvr and Hayes are not producing for whatever reason.
It's speaks volumes about how hot Hart and when he has played Elliot has been that they managed to win as much as they did with 5 core players not producing statistically.

Man I somehow forgot Hayes.

Currently Giroux, Coots, Jake , Jvr and Hayes are not producing for whatever reason.
It's speaks volumes about how hot Hart and when he has played Elliot has been that they managed to win as much as they did with 5 core players not producing statistically.
- opeth_pa

Yup. Outside of a few game hiccup with Hart the goaltending has been rock solid. Elliott has been terrific all year. It's really unbelievable the Flyers are currently in a playoff spot without their top players producing big. Coaching matters!

Hayes is on pace for a 30 point season. Not nearly good enough.

Im not saying they get a pass for anything.
Im saying teams lose games over an 82 game schedule.
2 loses to me is a time to lose our minds, lose tonight and then you have more of a streak or pattern setting in and all the good of the winning streak starts to go away.
- opeth_pa

Yea, teams lose games over an 82 game season. It's more important to look at why they lose a particular game. I don't know how anyone can be okay with that effort last night. What it said to me is the all too familiar, we're the Flyers and we don't need our A game tonight to beat this team so we'll just cruise through. Oops! If that is not a pattern for this core of players then I don't know what is.

Without naming any more names, I’ll just say it this way. There are skaters On the team (forwards AND defenseman) that are better shooters. Those guys need to double down. Our many playmaker, pass-first guys need to consider that sometimes they in fact have the best shot available. It’s a team and the offense needs to come together. Play to their strengths but push themselves just a tad.

On the coaching, I’m not a fan of the blender treatment so early in a game with new lines already. And I thought Giroux can set up on the RHB on the PP at least 50% of the time? Where was that last night?
- NC Flyers Fan

I agree totally with the first paragraph. The second one, I think Vigneault did exactly as he should've last night.

Anyone hammering on Coots is ruthless in their opinions.

He's injured.
- Pompous

Absolutely. Not to the point where he can't play but he is definitely hurt. That cross ice pass where he could barely get a shot off showed it.

Absolutely. Not to the point where he can't play but he is definitely hurt. That cross ice pass where he could barely get a shot off showed it.
- MJL

Or the cross ice pas where it bounced for a second as it got to his blade. Doesn't matter which of us is right, the fact is he didn't get a solid shot off.

Again I'm a huge Coots fan but I'm pretty sure that it's okay to make a negative comment about him every so often like I do any player.

Or the cross ice pas where it bounced for a second as it got to his blade. Doesn't matter which of us is right, the fact is he didn't get a solid shot off.

Again I'm a huge Coots fan but I'm pretty sure that it's okay to make a negative comment about him every so often like I do any player.
- opeth_pa

It's okay with me as long as the same standard is used for like players. I'm not seeing that from many.

It's okay with me as long as the same standard is used for like players. I'm not seeing that from many.
- MJL

Yup..As I have been saying in all these posts...

Giroux, Coots, Jake, JVR and Hayes (who I cant believe I forgot) are not producing offensively at a pace that is good, sustainable and acceptable.

Of those I am least worried about Giroux and Coots.

Yup..As I have been saying in all these posts...

Giroux, Coots, Jake, JVR and Hayes (who I cant believe I forgot) are not producing offensively at a pace that is good, sustainable and acceptable.

Of those I am least worried about Giroux and Coots.
- opeth_pa

Well to me that is not the same standard. In my opinion, the guy to most worry about is Giroux. Top of the list.

Responding to just5 (since quotes wont work)

Im sure giroux has heard the fans talk about how poorly they've performed early in the season for so long. He is probably tired and frustrated from hearing it so often and i think the blah blah blah was directed at the reportere talking about how its early
I think Giroux knows they are going to get even better as the season goes on and this eerly stuff is still them figurig out the system and such.

I dont think it's a negative response

Well to me that is not the same standard. In my opinion, the guy to most worry about is Giroux. Top of the list.
- MJL

Im not sure how its not the same standard but that is okay.

Of the 5 players that i have listed that are not producing offensively IMO Giroux is most likely to finish where he often has which is around a PPG player and he is also the leading +/- for forwards. That doesnt mean the level to which the captain of the team is producing is good enough to this point it just means for the reasons I listed I am not worried about him. Just like I am not worried about Coots.

There doesn't have to be a right or wrong on this.
You see it one way and I see it another.

Yea, teams lose games over an 82 game season. It's more important to look at why they lose a particular game. I don't know how anyone can be okay with that effort last night. What it said to me is the all too familiar, we're the Flyers and we don't need our A game tonight to beat this team so we'll just cruise through. Oops! If that is not a pattern for this core of players then I don't know what is.
- MJL

I agree completely! The effort wasn't there last night. We lost board battles, didnt assert ourselves or our game plan, and didnt capitalize on promse scoring chances. We have way too many passers skipping great shots just to pass the puck one too many times turning into a dead play

Im not sure how its not the same standard but that is okay.

Of the 5 players that i have listed that are not producing offensively IMO Giroux is most likely to finish where he often has which is around a PPG player and he is also the leading +/- for forwards. That doesnt mean the level to which the captain of the team is producing is good enough to this point it just means for the reasons I listed I am not worried about him. Just like I am not worried about Coots.

There doesn't have to be a right or wrong on this.
You see it one way and I see it another.
- opeth_pa

Some players you give a pass to, say you're not worried about. I disagree on the standard you're using. In my view the player to worry about the most who is not playing up to par is the player who is most important to the teams success. That is unquestionably Giroux. The Flyers at this point in time with the makeup of their roster, won't be a top team unless Giroux plays like a top player.

Some players you give a pass to, say you're not worried about. I disagree on the standard you're using. In my view the player to worry about the most who is not playing up to par is the player who is most important to the teams success. That is unquestionably Giroux. The Flyers at this point in time with the makeup of their roster, won't be a top team unless Giroux plays like a top player.
- MJL

I haven't given a pass to anyone though.

Just about every post I have made today calls out the core players that are not delivering offensively. That list of players has started out with Giroux in every case.

I have also been consistent in saying that I am least worried about Giroux and Coots.

I haven't given a pass to anyone though.

Just about every post I have made today calls out the core players that are not delivering offensively. That list of players has started out with Giroux in every case.

I have also been consistent in saying that I am least worried about Giroux and Coots.
- opeth_pa

Well we disagree on that. I think there is a clear difference and numerous passes given to players over the course of a number of threads. Not just by you. When you're a player is in a position of leadership. When you're a player with a high paying cap hit contract. When you're a player counted on to be a top player on the team. You don't get any kind of a pass. Those players need to be held to a higher standard. Not a lesser standard. As Vigneault said recently "we need our leaders to be leaders on the ice". Tell me that Giroux played with as much heart and determination last night as Konecny or Lindblom played with?

Hayes and Voracek. Over 15 mil in combined cap space combined for 0 shots last night.

Fantastic

How?

Well we disagree on that. I think there is a clear difference and numerous passes given to players over the course of a number of threads. Not just by you. When you're a player is in a position of leadership. When you're a player with a high paying cap hit contract. When you're a player counted on to be a top player on the team. You don't get any kind of a pass. Those players need to be held to a higher standard. Not a lesser standard. As Vigneault said recently "we need our leaders to be leaders on the ice". Tell me that Giroux played with as much heart and determination last night as Konecny or Lindblom played with?
- MJL

I actually dont know that we do disagree because for this team to truly be successful the best players need to perform and that isnt happening.

Let me fix my wording then..I expect that by the end of this season Giroux and Coots will be performing to the level they have shown previously.

I am not sure I can say that about Jake, JVR or Hayes.