the thing that bothers me is babcock isnt willing to change anything. try something, put matthews with JT for a few shifts, play mattews on the entire PP, take reilly off the first PP, changes the lines, somethig

You don’t understand. His philosophy of small skilled players exclusively in the team will not work in NHL especially in the playoff. The evidence is right in your face. Why let him keep doing what doesn’t work? No sense of letting him finish what he started, unless you meant utter destruction of the teams’ fortune for the foreseeable future.

Realistically though, firing Dubas will put Shanny in the sight, so Shanny won’t do it. As you said, it will be Bab and then Dubas. Just politics. But all I’m saying is his approach of building only with skill isn’t working well.
- gamerdoc

I don't know what you've been watching, but we didn't lose to the Bruins because we were outhit.

We lost because our special teams were terrible and our tactical advantage in the matchups was lost when Kadri was suspended for his second season in a row.

We lost because the right side got caved in with Hainsey on our top pairing.

Again, what started all this was, what is a new GM going to do right now with this roster? Trade all our skilled players for bangers?

Put in a coach that wants a young, skilled and fast team (hint: there's probably a lineup around the block of coaches salivating at running this team) and knows how to use the tools he has and let's see what that does first.

Doesn't work? Ok, whelp, we tried being the 2017 Pens instead of the 2018 Caps or 2019 Blues, so let's retool and start over. Cool. I'm fine with that.

I just don't think trying to blow up this team with a new GM in November after being on the job for a year makes any sense whatsoever.

Maybe not start Hutchinson against the better teams on back-to-backs?
- gravyface

Hey, I'm with you there. I haven't liked Babs or Dubas and would prefer a situation where the coach and GM are on the same page and have the same vision for the team. My belief is that Babs vision was superior personnel wise is all, but he certainly has been puzzling at times.

I would say this, as one of the ones who was warning about this team. A new coach is not going to be able to get this team going. It's a crappy mix of players that simply can't succeed. He may be able to get the lazy players motivated, but this year is done. Even if a new coach somehow got the 1.68/2 points they will need to get to 98, they have zero chance of winning a playoff round.

They need to cut their losses and try to get a first rounder back, and make several other bold moves, but Dubas looks like a guy who could actually take the team deeper into the abyss if he is the one making those moves.

you have an opinion
I have a fact-based opinion; the goalie history is so clear in favor of my opinion, that there is no way you can actually twist that in any other way.
but keep on sucking Dubas' wiener
- MaximusAurelius

Lot less of that going on in here lately. Do you think the wives may have admitted to themselves that Dubas is a complete Bust?

the thing that bothers me is babcock isnt willing to change anything. try something, put matthews with JT for a few shifts, play mattews on the entire PP, take reilly off the first PP, changes the lines, somethig
- Archaic

Matthews isn't effective because he needs to play more. He's ineffective because he doesn't care. And he clearly can't handle the road matchups this year. He's a floater at home and the road but at home he gets weaker comp so he puts goals up.

the thing that bothers me is babcock isnt willing to change anything. try something, put matthews with JT for a few shifts, play mattews on the entire PP, take reilly off the first PP, changes the lines, somethig
- Archaic

Bingo.

Out with Babcock, in with someone else who understands what he has, can take a fresh perspective on the roster, and get players playing to their strengths.

Honest to god, if they just collapsed in front of the net on D instead of this complicated frankenzone system that Babcock is playing, they would probably have 4-5 more wins this year.

Maybe, who knows, but we wouldn't have been able to resign Marner.

But a wholesale "let's build the St. Louis Blues because heavy is cool again... wait... didn't the Pens just win back-to-back cups a couple of years ago?" change is fundamentally impossible to pull off mid-season (or even the off-season) in a cap world, so we would absolutely be getting the wrong end of a deal or two (or three) in the process while the other teams laugh at us trading away Nylanders and Barries and Kapanens and Johnssons for Clutterbucks and Martins and Mansons and Andersons, and we'd probably be just as tight to the cap.
- gravyface

I competely agree with you there. This is our roster (impact players) now for the forseeable future. You can't have 3 x 11m (ish) players and expect to not have to fit less than desirable players into the roster. They're really going to have to keep down this line of thinking with skill and smarts wins because they'll struggle to make big enough changes with the contracts they have signed.

Any up and coming player(s) will also have to be aware that their salary will be limited because of the current salaries in place.

It's partly why i suggest looking at moving Marner. He's a top player and they'll miss him. But i think for them to really be a contender they can't have 3 players making 11 mil.

Do you keep the centre's in Matthews and Snakes?
Do you keep the youth in Matthews and Marner?

I'm not sure, but Marner can fill two glaring needs for this team (top dman and defensively sound winger) while probably saving a bit of cap to help boost the defence even more.

But again, moving Marner is a bold bold move. Can we continue with stars and scrubs

Babcock absolutely has to go so we can find out what the real issue is/was before Matthews bolts for warmer climates

There is only one solution.

Fire everyone...

Every, single, last one of them - even the dudes who just fired the dudes who hired these guys in the first place.

Then bring in bottles of bleach and giant cans of Febreze to remove any lingering stink.

Matthews isn't effective because he needs to play more. He's ineffective because he doesn't care. And he clearly can't handle the road matchups this year. He's a floater at home and the road but at home he gets weaker comp so he puts goals up.
- aminnes

Jesus Christ, these inane logical fallacies and baseless assumptions are (frank)ing priceless. Like you have any idea what Matthews feels or doesn't feel.

A lot could go wrong, but terminating the GM after a year at the helm because we overpaid for Marner and let Nylander sit too long? Again, having Hainsey, Zaitsev, Brown and Kadri back would've produced completely different results, is that what you're saying?

Coach goes first, then Dubas.

This isn't a millennial thing (I'm probably older than you are), but ironically, this is actually a traditional move that's produced results before... like the Bruins, who somehow got way better when they fired Julien and promoted Cassidy.
- gravyface

as for different results with Hainsey, etc.... I think that should be fairly self evident.... although the team as whole was pretty mediocre after Nylander returned last year - that was in fact the turning point, at that point the PP began to dry up, and everyone was focused on trying to get Nylander going and how crap he was. Was that on the coach? or the players?

yes, traditionally the coach goes first - and I suspect Babcock will be gone by XMas / New Year.

the problem with that is how its handled, and I don't mean the media side of it...

I'm referring to the organization not making clear to the players and in this case the rookie boy-wonder GM - that its not okay to just assume everything you are doing is good enough just because the coach is fired. Exactly the same thing with the goaltending... demote back-up..."oh well its all that guys fault".

Dubas doesn't deserve nor should he get a free pass to continue "building the roster his way"- and therein lies the problem.

Unless something visible is done - in this case by Shanahan - to indicate that this isn't all on the outgoing coach... the players and the immature GM will think exactly that entitled "I'm right because coach got canned way".

why do you think guys like LouLams keep silly little rules in place - to remind everyone who's in charge, that they are accountable to the team...

yes, you are making 10M$ ...congrats.... now go cut your hair per team rules....
yes its dumb in many ways, yes it goes against "personal expression"... but at the end of the day you work for that organization, you are employed by them.... they call the shots.

and isn't it funny - how there seems to be a "me first" attitude - no one sticks up for each other...

and quite frankly "f__k" the underlying stats.

the overarching stats tell the story.

I don't know what you've been watching, but we didn't lose to the Bruins because we were outhit.

We lost because our special teams were terrible and our tactical advantage in the matchups was lost when Kadri was suspended for his second season in a row.

We lost because the right side got caved in with Hainsey on our top pairing.

Again, what started all this was, what is a new GM going to do right now with this roster? Trade all our skilled players for bangers?

Put in a coach that wants a young, skilled and fast team (hint: there's probably a lineup around the block of coaches salivating at running this team) and knows how to use the tools he has and let's see what that does first.

Doesn't work? Ok, whelp, we tried being the 2017 Pens instead of the 2018 Caps or 2019 Blues, so let's retool and start over. Cool. I'm fine with that.

I just don't think trying to blow up this team with a new GM in November after being on the job for a year makes any sense whatsoever.
- gravyface

They won’t play Babcock’s system.
Why anyone would believe they would play the system a new coach implemented is beyond understanding.
These clowns play pond hockey.
Padding stats in garbage time is more important than winning.
The problem is attitude and heart.

Bingo.

Out with Babcock, in with someone else who understands what he has, can take a fresh perspective on the roster, and get players playing to their strengths.

Honest to god, if they just collapsed in front of the net on D instead of this complicated frankenzone system that Babcock is playing, they would probably have 4-5 more wins this year.
- gravyface

They don’t play the system.

as for different results with Hainsey, etc.... I think that should be fairly self evident.... although the team as whole was pretty mediocre after Nylander returned last year - that was in fact the turning point, at that point the PP began to dry up, and everyone was focused on trying to get Nylander going and how crap he was. Was that on the coach? or the players?

yes, traditionally the coach goes first - and I suspect Babcock will be gone by XMas / New Year.

the problem with that is how its handled, and I don't mean the media side of it...

I'm referring to the organization not making clear to the players and in this case the rookie boy-wonder GM - that its not okay to just assume everything you are doing is good enough just because the coach is fired. Exactly the same thing with the goaltending... demote back-up..."oh well its all that guys fault".

Dubas doesn't deserve nor should he get a free pass to continue "building the roster his way"- and therein lies the problem.

Unless something visible is done - in this case by Shanahan - to indicate that this isn't all on the outgoing coach... the players and the immature GM will think exactly that entitled "I'm right because coach got canned way".

why do you think guys like LouLams keep silly little rules in place - to remind everyone who's in charge, that they are accountable to the team...

yes, you are making 10M$ ...congrats.... now go cut your hair per team rules....
yes its dumb in many ways, yes it goes against "personal expression"... but at the end of the day you work for that organization, you are employed by them.... they call the shots.

and isn't it funny - how there seems to be a "me first" attitude - no one sticks up for each other...

and quite frankly "f__k" the underlying stats.

the overarching stats tell the story.
- BorjeFan4Ever

I do agree with the Lams stuff. People say it's stupid about facial hair and suits and whatnot, but it's just a reminder at all turns that he is in charge, which i think is the best tactic in sports management. (Imo)

Jesus Christ, these inane logical fallacies and baseless assumptions are (frank)ing priceless. Like you have any idea what Matthews feels or doesn't feel.
- gravyface

Judging by what we see from him on the ice, when it comes to winning or losing, I’d say apathy.

And the Blues last year.
And the Pens in 2016.
And the Pens in 2009.

Sometimes you need fresh ideas and fresh faces behind the bench. This would appear to be that time.
- lumlums

Goalie
...
Goalie.

In my recollection...which is failing me often, it seems a number of players who have just received their "payday" struggle their first year under the weight of that contract.

Next year they'll be awesome again!

LOL

Bingo.

Out with Babcock, in with someone else who understands what he has, can take a fresh perspective on the roster, and get players playing to their strengths.

Honest to god, if they just collapsed in front of the net on D instead of this complicated frankenzone system that Babcock is playing, they would probably have 4-5 more wins this year.
- gravyface

Lol
Almost the same people calling for babs head are the ones who said he was the reason Kadri turned it around and the leafs made the playoffs

the thing that bothers me is babcock isnt willing to change anything. try something, put matthews with JT for a few shifts, play mattews on the entire PP, take reilly off the first PP, changes the lines, somethig
- Archaic

I agree, hes stubborn
Needs to change it up

The Leafs missing the playoffs and winning the draft lottery, only to hand the pick over to the Hurricanes would be the Leafiest, Leaf thing to ever happen.

Obviously, I think you’ll make it, but this just popped into my mind and I figured I’d sure it with you people.

The Leafs missing the playoffs and winning the draft lottery, only to hand the pick over to the Hurricanes would be the Leafiest, Leaf thing to ever happen.

Obviously, I think you’ll make it, but this just popped into my mind and I figured I’d sure it with you people.
- RickJames77

I believe they are top 10 protected

The Leafs missing the playoffs and winning the draft lottery, only to hand the pick over to the Hurricanes would be the Leafiest, Leaf thing to ever happen.

Obviously, I think you’ll make it, but this just popped into my mind and I figured I’d sure it with you people.
- RickJames77

Protected first

The Leafs missing the playoffs and winning the draft lottery, only to hand the pick over to the Hurricanes would be the Leafiest, Leaf thing to ever happen.

Obviously, I think you’ll make it, but this just popped into my mind and I figured I’d sure it with you people.
- RickJames77

Lottery protected...

The Leafs missing the playoffs and winning the draft lottery, only to hand the pick over to the Hurricanes would be the Leafiest, Leaf thing to ever happen.

Obviously, I think you’ll make it, but this just popped into my mind and I figured I’d sure it with you people.
- RickJames77

Too lazy to look this up...is the pick protected?

Edit: Oh my...never mind...late as can be.

I believe they are top 10 protected
- Fakepartofme

Oh ok - that’s good. What does it then become an unprotected 2021 1st?

Can't wait for the Leafs to turn this around, then read the boner induced posts that will be published on here.