Not sure if AM has the desire to be the best right now.

But at the same time, he always have to look behind while playing. Last time he was run over, there was no one to stand up for him. Actually no one does that for anyone in this team.
- gamerdoc

Desire or not. He’ll never be better than mcdavid

Last year's defense (apart from the team's PK) looked way better than this year.
Apparently Hainsey, Zaitsev were able to understand Babcock's defensive system, and it helped others (Rielly, Dermott, Gardiner) to concentrate on the things they do well (offense).
Everybody that had seen Ceci play on Ottawa agreed that he's a bottomline D-man (at best) - however Kyle 'underlying numbers' Dubas sold us all that Ceci has much more potential (top4). The guy is worse than Luke Schenn.
Barrie - although nice offensive assets - was the last player this Leafs team needed.
That was a very bad trade for the Leafs, even if they got a nice serviceable player back in Kerfoot.
However that Kerfoot contract was quite bad.
I don't mind the Marner, Matthews, Nylander AAV that much (although could have gotten them for 3+ million less if we would have a GM that knows how to negotiate) - I mind the Kerfoot, Kapanen, Johnsson AAVs much more - since these are all 25% vs comparable players in the league.

out:
Gardiner
Hainsey
Zaitsev
Kadri
Brown
McElhinney
2 1st rounders
Grundstrom
Durzi
Borgman
Rosen
Lindholm
Leivo
Carrick
Marleau
Martin
Komarov

if you look at that list, we have McElhinney as a much better backup goalie than anyone that Dubas has brought in / 'trusted'.

Then Carrick, Borgman, Zaitsev, Hainsey all better on the defensive side then Ceci and Barrie.

Everybody understands that Dubas had to deal with some cap constraints.
The issue is however that he was unwilling to give up players in areas of strength (wingers; Nylander/Johnsson/Bracco) but instead weakened the D and GK.

That's a recipe for failure.

Fire this idiot coach already. Highest paid in the league. Ha! What a (frank)ing joke.

Fire this idiot coach already. Highest paid in the league. Ha! What a (frank)ing joke.
- Steven_Seagull

Fire this idiot coach already. Highest paid in the league. Ha! What a (frank)ing joke.
- Steven_Seagull

What's Kyle waiting for?

Last year's defense (apart from the team's PK) looked way better than this year.
Apparently Hainsey, Zaitsev were able to understand Babcock's defensive system, and it helped others (Rielly, Dermott, Gardiner) to concentrate on the things they do well (offense).
Everybody that had seen Ceci play on Ottawa agreed that he's a bottomline D-man (at best) - however Kyle 'underlying numbers' Dubas sold us all that Ceci has much more potential (top4). The guy is worse than Luke Schenn.
Barrie - although nice offensive assets - was the last player this Leafs team needed.
That was a very bad trade for the Leafs, even if they got a nice serviceable player back in Kerfoot.
However that Kerfoot contract was quite bad.
I don't mind the Marner, Matthews, Nylander AAV that much (although could have gotten them for 3+ million less if we would have a GM that knows how to negotiate) - I mind the Kerfoot, Kapanen, Johnsson AAVs much more - since these are all 25% vs comparable players in the league.

out:
Gardiner
Hainsey
Zaitsev
Kadri
Brown
McElhinney
2 1st rounders
Grundstrom
Durzi
Borgman
Rosen
Lindholm
Leivo
Carrick
Marleau
Martin
Komarov

if you look at that list, we have McElhinney as a much better backup goalie than anyone that Dubas has brought in / 'trusted'.

Then Carrick, Borgman, Zaitsev, Hainsey all better on the defensive side then Ceci and Barrie.

Everybody understands that Dubas had to deal with some cap constraints.
The issue is however that he was unwilling to give up players in areas of strength (wingers; Nylander/Johnsson/Bracco) but instead weakened the D and GK.

That's a recipe for failure.
- MaximusAurelius

Hainsey is old/slow, but "stood in the right place" so he was a Babcock favourite. What a great system. They also had many more games under their belt to learn about Babcock's amazingly complicated and ineffective system, so I guess there's that.

How is that Kerfoot contract bad? Kadri would've wanted to get paid and on the ice, Kerfoot is as feisty as Kadri is, quicker and more relentless on the forecheck, if not as aggressive physically as Kadri was.

Kadri, right now, is probably the better center, but he's also a lot older too, so this is a roll-back-the-clock kind of move, the kind you have to do when you're faced with cap crunch. And besides, Kerfoot and the 3rd line has not been a problem at all this season.

Barrie was never going to be a defensive stalwart, but he's been neutered by Babcock offensively and isn't getting any PP1 time, so not exactly optimal usage with him at all.

Carrick and Borgman are fringe NHLers at this point in their careers; I can't believe you even brought them up.

Sparks played great for us for years in the AHL, was homegrown, and was given a shot and didn't succeed in that backup role.

Goaltenders are the most difficult players to evaluate, but the process was sound there, and besides, what is he supposed to do, ship the guy out without even getting a look at the NHL? Yeah, because that would make for a winning culture in your farm system: "hey guys, don't bother playing above expectations, it won't matter anyways...".

McBackup: historically, he was projected to regress hard, and guess what, he did:
.912 in Carolina on a very good defensive team last year.
.906 so far in Tampa this year.
Those are like Hutchinson career numbers.

Nylander and Johnsson have good contracts; they're not amazing, discount contracts, but there is nothing wrong with them.


Shipping those guys out would not have netted us a 1RHD either, because teams have their own Johnssons for sure, and Nylander's value was at an all-time low and is one of the only bright lights in this dark nightmare of a season so far.

I am surprised nothing has happened. After Saturday I expected some ‘shoe’ to drop. This team is to talented to be this bad. If Dubas doesn’t do something maybe he should just be fired...

Can’t disagree with the above posts. Dubas ‘deals’ have not strengthen our team, but have seemed to weaken us. Should have kept Uncle Lou...

I am surprised nothing has happened. After Saturday I expected some ‘shoe’ to drop. This team is to talented to be this bad. If Dubas doesn’t do something maybe he should just be fired...

Can’t disagree with the above posts. Dubas ‘deals’ have not strengthen our team, but have seemed to weaken us. Should have kept Uncle Lou...
- Hockey_Reverend

You sure? I was told by the Leaf fans on here that Barrie + Kerfoot for Kadri was a steal!

Hainsey is old/slow, but "stood in the right place" so he was a Babcock favourite. What a great system. They also had many more games under their belt to learn about Babcock's amazingly complicated and ineffective system, so I guess there's that.

How is that Kerfoot contract bad? Kadri would've wanted to get paid and on the ice, Kerfoot is as feisty as Kadri is, quicker and more relentless on the forecheck, if not as aggressive physically as Kadri was.

Kadri, right now, is probably the better center, but he's also a lot older too, so this is a roll-back-the-clock kind of move, the kind you have to do when you're faced with cap crunch. And besides, Kerfoot and the 3rd line has not been a problem at all this season.

Barrie was never going to be a defensive stalwart, but he's been neutered by Babcock offensively and isn't getting any PP1 time, so not exactly optimal usage with him at all.

Carrick and Borgman are fringe NHLers at this point in their careers; I can't believe you even brought them up.

Sparks played great for us for years in the AHL, was homegrown, and was given a shot and didn't succeed in that backup role.

Goaltenders are the most difficult players to evaluate, but the process was sound there, and besides, what is he supposed to do, ship the guy out without even getting a look at the NHL? Yeah, because that would make for a winning culture in your farm system: "hey guys, don't bother playing above expectations, it won't matter anyways...".

McBackup: historically, he was projected to regress hard, and guess what, he did:
.912 in Carolina on a very good defensive team last year.
.906 so far in Tampa this year.
Those are like Hutchinson career numbers.

Nylander and Johnsson have good contracts; they're not amazing, discount contracts, but there is nothing wrong with them.


Shipping those guys out would not have netted us a 1RHD either, because teams have their own Johnssons for sure, and Nylander's value was at an all-time low and is one of the only bright lights in this dark nightmare of a season so far.
- gravyface

I'm not an analyst to the depth that I can figure out what or how things have gone awry. People do bring it back to around January 1st of 2019, though, and certainly that seems to be around the time that things just started to wobble.

But some reinforcement to your comments:

A lot has been made about how Tyson Barrie isn't even as offensively talented as Jake Gardiner since coming to the Leafs. But let's look the magical January 1 date:

To use 5v5 as just a base game state: Gardiner last year in the first half had 15 pts in 39 games. In the second half, he had 4 pts in 23 games. Yes, he had a back injury. 1 of those 4 points came in the 2 games after he came back from his injury.

Hainsey on December 31 was +15 @5v5; he was +2 the remainder of the year (his partner was +24 / +7, so you can pretty much tell who was bringing up whose numbers).

Zaitsev was +1 in the first half and -4 in the second half - and strangely Zaitsev put up 10 5v5 pts in the 2nd half and only 2 in the first half. So I mean, Zaitsev complained about not being able to contribute offensively, and yet in the 2nd half he was allowed to to a negative effect.

The problem isn't the overhaul on D, I don't think. The problem is that the way the team is playing doesn't do anything to support the players. You can't turn Ceci into a guy who thinks the game at a 1st line pace. We weren't going to change Zaitsev into that either. You can't turn Barrie into a defensively responsible player. We weren't going to change Gardiner into that either.

Maybe Hainsey is missed, but it's not like was providing a great deal of value. His job was to position himself somewhere useful and stay near there because he was slow and had poor acceleration. He had the sense to know roughly where to be. Hainsey's absence isn't the reason that Rielly also can't find his ass with both hands right now.

Ceci's not good, but he's not that much worse than Hainsey; he's not the reason the whole team is out of sync and unable to generate anything.

I am surprised nothing has happened. After Saturday I expected some ‘shoe’ to drop. This team is to talented to be this bad. If Dubas doesn’t do something maybe he should just be fired...

Can’t disagree with the above posts. Dubas ‘deals’ have not strengthen our team, but have seemed to weaken us. Should have kept Uncle Lou...
- Hockey_Reverend

Which NHL teams are not better off having acquired Muzzin + Barrie as an NHL defensive pairing?

I'm rewording it - I saw it on Twitter. But it's a good question. Almost every NHL team benefits from that acquisition, and you're inserting it into your top-4 at a cap hit of $6.75m.

That is not on the GM.

Does Tavares play like a captain? I havent seen it yet....think the leafs made a mistake

Which NHL teams are not better off having acquired Muzzin + Barrie as an NHL defensive pairing?

I'm rewording it - I saw it on Twitter. But it's a good question. Almost every NHL team benefits from that acquisition, and you're inserting it into your top-4 at a cap hit of $6.75m.

That is not on the GM.
- Monkeypunk

I actually like Muzzin. Love that trade. Nothing else Dubas has done has been an improvement imo. Also feel like our defensive depth is actually worse. Sure guys like Borgman and Carrick are nothing special, but at least I felt you could insert them if needed and they would give a poop... Right now we cant insert a guy like Lillybust or Sandin. Too young and soft...! Plus, a team needs ‘grunts’. Should have kept Uncle Leo! Uncle Lou and Uncle Leo forever...

2 years 16-17 17-18 ( I won’t use last year )

Willie 2200 mins 5v5 = 23 goals - 113th in the NHL

Connor Fu king Brown 2000 mins = 24 goals same time frame.

Go Leafs Go 🥴
- Garnie

Beauty

Does Tavares play like a captain? I havent seen it yet....think the leafs made a mistake
- CarlitoBrigante

What does a captain play like? Did Mats play like a captain? When he, himself, wasn't injured, he has actually not played a single game this year with his normal line mates from last year.

You sure? I was told by the Leaf fans on here that Barrie + Kerfoot for Kadri was a steal!
- RedRevenge

I dont mind Kerfoot but lets not pretend he has anywhere near the talent or toughness of Kadri. Kadri could play anywhere in the lineup including the PP. He was a buddy of JT as well... Also, Barrie is absolutely not what we needed. His problem is that he needs to be on the PP1 and for some reason Babs thinks Reilly is better there. I love Reilly, but he has no shot. His slapper looks like he is hacking the puck... Plus the fact that Barrie will be gone to free agency. So you end up giving up Kadri for Kerfoot. Kadri would sure be nice right now with all the injuries...

When you look at the rest of the moves Dubas has made many are ‘meh’ but when you look at them in totality is just feels like we got lots of ‘soft’

I am surprised nothing has happened. After Saturday I expected some ‘shoe’ to drop. This team is to talented to be this bad. If Dubas doesn’t do something maybe he should just be fired...

Can’t disagree with the above posts. Dubas ‘deals’ have not strengthen our team, but have seemed to weaken us. Should have kept Uncle Lou...
- Hockey_Reverend

Cant fire babs yet.
He didnt these soft players.
Not his fault the players are choosing to embarrass themselves
Not his fault they have no wins with a backup.
No wins without marner i believe

The Flames have been very Leafy too.

They could help each other out with a shakeup.
- Santo_44

Willie for m tkachuk


Just kidding, the flames would laugh at that.

I actually like Muzzin. Love that trade. Nothing else Dubas has done has been an improvement imo. Also feel like our defensive depth is actually worse. Sure guys like Borgman and Carrick are nothing special, but at least I felt you could insert them if needed and they would give a poop... Right now we cant insert a guy like Lillybust or Sandin. Too young and soft...! Plus, a team needs ‘grunts’. Should have kept Uncle Leo! Uncle Lou and Uncle Leo forever...
- Hockey_Reverend

That's the theory as to what's wrong. It could be correct. But I don't think so.

Again, at 5v5 play, Tavares is -8, Marner is -9, Hyman is already -2. The 4th liners are all hovering in the +2 (Shore) to -3 (Spezza) range. Even Kapanen when he was with the top line was -6 @ 5v5. I'm not sure if grunts change things, but perhaps they do create more security for the star players - something we don't get much of. Maybe the problem is that the guys are tired of being hit? Maybe the problem is that the style of play is not conducive to breaking out with speed, which is something they need to do to be effective.

I would like to see a bit more toughness, but I do like having some skill on the 4th line as well.

Last year's defense (apart from the team's PK) looked way better than this year.
Apparently Hainsey, Zaitsev were able to understand Babcock's defensive system, and it helped others (Rielly, Dermott, Gardiner) to concentrate on the things they do well (offense).
Everybody that had seen Ceci play on Ottawa agreed that he's a bottomline D-man (at best) - however Kyle 'underlying numbers' Dubas sold us all that Ceci has much more potential (top4). The guy is worse than Luke Schenn.
Barrie - although nice offensive assets - was the last player this Leafs team needed.
That was a very bad trade for the Leafs, even if they got a nice serviceable player back in Kerfoot.
However that Kerfoot contract was quite bad.
I don't mind the Marner, Matthews, Nylander AAV that much (although could have gotten them for 3+ million less if we would have a GM that knows how to negotiate) - I mind the Kerfoot, Kapanen, Johnsson AAVs much more - since these are all 25% vs comparable players in the league.

out:
Gardiner
Hainsey
Zaitsev
Kadri
Brown
McElhinney
2 1st rounders
Grundstrom
Durzi
Borgman
Rosen
Lindholm
Leivo
Carrick
Marleau
Martin
Komarov

if you look at that list, we have McElhinney as a much better backup goalie than anyone that Dubas has brought in / 'trusted'.

Then Carrick, Borgman, Zaitsev, Hainsey all better on the defensive side then Ceci and Barrie.

Everybody understands that Dubas had to deal with some cap constraints.
The issue is however that he was unwilling to give up players in areas of strength (wingers; Nylander/Johnsson/Bracco) but instead weakened the D and GK.

That's a recipe for failure.
- MaximusAurelius

The thing is they are not playing the same as last season. they have roughly the same numbers defensive wise, but have totally nullified the offence. every game they have taking long shots from the point.

Something has totally changed with the way they are generating offence

Hainsey is old/slow, but "stood in the right place" so he was a Babcock favourite. What a great system. They also had many more games under their belt to learn about Babcock's amazingly complicated and ineffective system, so I guess there's that.

How is that Kerfoot contract bad? Kadri would've wanted to get paid and on the ice, Kerfoot is as feisty as Kadri is, quicker and more relentless on the forecheck, if not as aggressive physically as Kadri was.

Kadri, right now, is probably the better center, but he's also a lot older too, so this is a roll-back-the-clock kind of move, the kind you have to do when you're faced with cap crunch. And besides, Kerfoot and the 3rd line has not been a problem at all this season.

Barrie was never going to be a defensive stalwart, but he's been neutered by Babcock offensively and isn't getting any PP1 time, so not exactly optimal usage with him at all.

Carrick and Borgman are fringe NHLers at this point in their careers; I can't believe you even brought them up.

Sparks played great for us for years in the AHL, was homegrown, and was given a shot and didn't succeed in that backup role.

Goaltenders are the most difficult players to evaluate, but the process was sound there, and besides, what is he supposed to do, ship the guy out without even getting a look at the NHL? Yeah, because that would make for a winning culture in your farm system: "hey guys, don't bother playing above expectations, it won't matter anyways...".

McBackup: historically, he was projected to regress hard, and guess what, he did:
.912 in Carolina on a very good defensive team last year.
.906 so far in Tampa this year.
Those are like Hutchinson career numbers.

Nylander and Johnsson have good contracts; they're not amazing, discount contracts, but there is nothing wrong with them.


Shipping those guys out would not have netted us a 1RHD either, because teams have their own Johnssons for sure, and Nylander's value was at an all-time low and is one of the only bright lights in this dark nightmare of a season so far.
- gravyface

Fantastic post. Gravy for coach.

The thing is they are not playing the same as last season. they have roughly the same numbers defensive wise, but have totally nullified the offence. every game they have taking long shots from the point.

Something has totally changed with the way they are generating offence
- senstroll

Teams have figured them out and are shutting them down?

Teams have figured them out and are shutting them down?
- Fakepartofme

Maybe the highest paid coach in the league should do something about that.

Vegas
Yotes
Avs

Can we get a win this week.....(frank)

Teams have figured them out and are shutting them down?
- Fakepartofme

doubt its that simple.

Fantastic post. Gravy for coach.
- Steven_Seagull

nah, lack of graphs, no mention of Kap and someone got enough Johnsons...?

very offensive stuff!!!