He is asking them to be defensively responsible.

They don't give a poop,

They don't score NEARLY enough to justify the laziness.

Babcock needs to be fired because the team is no longer playing for him and haven't been for quite some time.
- Aetherial

Ya, again I'm not eager to point the finger at the coach and really I blame the top 8-12 players on the team. But, one of the most important roles of the coach is to ensure (by any means possible) that the players are motivated.

These (frank)s don't look motivated ...

We can and should put that on Dubas. He facked up the Nylander situation - setting the table for the rest. He needs to own that "tangibly"... not continue to cost the team futures (i.e. 1st round picks or prospects) to escape his poor moves. Yes he's made some very good moves, but the ones that are impacting the team most at the moment, and likely for the forseeable future - as his poor ones.
- BorjeFan4Ever

Yeah, disagreed on multiple fronts. Dubas did what he had to do to get those players under contract. Because the fan base and his bosses wouldn't settle for anything less than the best team possible being on the ice. If he had let Willie and Marner sit, there would have been calls for his head. This is beside the idea he got Willie signed for far less than was reported he wanted.

That, and dubas has not traded first rounders to get out of his own mess. That was to get out of Lou's mess. I've yet to see anything from dubas that suggests he would have been on board with signing a 38 year old on the decline for 3 years at big money.

He could have (held out on Willie) and that would've taken some huge balls on his part given that the team (and I'm sure his bosses) were hoping for a big year/playoff run. You and I both know that half the fanbase would've lost their minds once they found out that they lost this top 6 winger (with a pair of 61 pt season's in his back pocket) was not signed to save 500k.

It was always going to be tough. And I think everybody is kidding themselves if they believe Lou would have let the kid sit out all year. The only difference with Lou "might" have been that he would've angled for a bridge contract with all of them.
- The Law

its purely conjecture on my part... but my guess is Lou would not have allowed the negotiation into the season - i.e. get it done before/during camp - or sit. Whether Nylander's camp would have bought that from Lou I don't know... but I'm guessing that he may have been more convincing at bluffing than Dubas was. Something along the lines of "this bridge deal" or "that longer term deal"... chose before camp.
Hangs up phone... call me when you are ready to chose.

Ya, again I'm not eager to point the finger at the coach and really I blame the top 8-12 players on the team. But, one of the most important roles of the coach is to ensure (by any means possible) that the players are motivated.

These (frank)s don't look motivated ...
- The Law

the argument could be made that the motivation was/is those nice big fat contracts....

why is Barrie worried about having a poor year?.... the contract.

Im not sure how so many people are able to say dubas caved on Willie and mean it. It was in the media endlessly that Willie wanted 8-8.5 per, he signed at 6.9. How exactly is that dubas caving?
- joel878

It was rumoured he may have asked for that.
Also, agents always start high.
Plus his cap hit is 6.9....contract is 7.5 i believe.

But whatever

the boomer thing is hilarious

that's the rough equivalent of telling someone they have spinach in their teeth...

you know, I have something in my teeth... might be a little embarrassed by it for a moment... but at the end of the day... its true - that's my age range - and as a sweeping generalization... I pay about as much attention to it as if someone told me all Germanic people have square heads.

but, if the Snowflakers receive unbounded joy out of typing out "Ok Boomer"... who am I to take that little pleasure away from them?
- BorjeFan4Ever

I am sure you are old enough to know how hypocritical this sentence is

the boomer thing is hilarious

that's the rough equivalent of telling someone they have spinach in their teeth...

you know, I have something in my teeth... might be a little embarrassed by it for a moment... but at the end of the day... its true - that's my age range - and as a sweeping generalization... I pay about as much attention to it as if someone told me all Germanic people have square heads.

but, if the Snowflakers receive unbounded joy out of typing out "Ok Boomer"... who am I to take that little pleasure away from them?
- BorjeFan4Ever

Tbh, I think it cuts deeper than you’re admitting, lol..

I don’t “ok boomer” people I know, because I know it offends them. You guys have no clap-back.

It was rumoured he may have asked for that.
Also, agents always start high.
Plus his cap hit is 6.9....contract is 7.5 i believe.

But whatever
- Fakepartofme

In hindsight he could of just signed him to 7 million at the start of the season and avoided the whole crap season from him.

He is starting good this year so its not worth complaining about at this point.

the argument could be made that the motivation was/is those nice big fat contracts....

why is Barrie worried about having a poor year?.... the contract.
- BorjeFan4Ever

Is the proving or disproving your theory?

Is Barrie playing bad because he is not worried about the contract?
How does this work?

Tbh, I think it cuts deeper than you’re admitting, lol..

I don’t “ok boomer” people I know, because I know it offends them. You guys have no clap-back.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

He calls people snowflakes every day

What is the difference?

IMO, Marner was supposed to be the "easy one" to sign.. A hometown kid, grew up and dreamed about playing for the Leafs.. I didn't expect him to threaten the team like he did and hold them hostage.. I really thought we would get less than $10M.
- PatC80

When you sign matthews to 11 plus for 5, easy to see why marner asked for over 10 when hes lead the team 2 years in a row.
Also, he didnt hold the team hostage, he never missed a preseason game

From this day forward, I shall only call him Norman Esiason:


- Atomic Wedgie

That would be generationally sensitive of you Wedgie and my panties will no longer be knotted as a result.

while thats fine, the Flames are sputtering around in dissapointment land just like the Leafs.

having a grit and leadershiper doesnt always just mean automatic wins
- senstroll

I think there is a trade to be had with that team.

Excluding Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Monahan, Tkchuck, Gadreau

Is the proving or disproving your theory?

Is Barrie playing bad because he is not worried about the contract?
How does this work?
- senstroll

Maybe they are trying to keep Barrie's value low, so they can re-sign him to a team friendly deal?

The annoying thing about Marner's deal is that he took full advantage of the Leafs financial clout in the front loaded signing bonuses but gave nothing back, still getting the highest AAV out of all the RFAs. Then, he gets his rookie bonuses cause he was mad about not getting them on a contract that he himself signed. It's all good if he lives up to it but his "I only want to play in Toronto" is definitely not 100% genuine.

You're right, Dubas was screwed either way because of the player and agent he was dealing with, the only way he isnt is if Marner lives up to it.
- 13sundin13

I agree that it is never genuine because if it is, where's the "hometown" discount? Great you got your money and as Marner is finding out, the fanbase or the media are not very nice to underperformers.

He is asking them to be defensively responsible.

They don't give a poop,

They don't score NEARLY enough to justify the laziness.

Babcock needs to be fired because the team is no longer playing for him and haven't been for quite some time.
- Aetherial

while it certainly would seem that he has lost their attention...

I'm curious why Dubas hasn't canned him already. Is because he believe in Babcock, could be ... but it would seem like Dubas would want "his guy" behind the bench.

So it may just be that Babcock being fired isn't Dubas' call to make... i.e. that Shanahan is reserving that decision for himself (which if I hired a babyGM I would certainly consider doing).

Or... I could be completely wrong in my assertion and it is Dubas' decision - in which he's realized that the moment he cans Babcock... it he himself who's facked. Install your coach - and what if they miss the playoffs? then that coach - who's probably ID 'd as interim gets let go and the Dubas himself gets the boot. So - in short remove the Babcock shadow - and into the light comes my Dubas.

No place to hide.

Engvall up and Moore to IR. Lovely

Just cannot get healthy and have everyone in the lineup this year at all!

Still think a move needs to be made and quick here too, and that move in behind the bench. I don't think you can let it go more than the next game or so before something gives to right the ship.

Maybe they are trying to keep Barrie's value low, so they can re-sign him to a team friendly deal?
- PatC80

Babs is a genuis

Watch Dubas trade him before then to screw up his plan.

fire dubaz

Is the start to this season really that much of a surprise?? Look at how the Leafs played and finished in the 2nd half of last season...they were basically a 500 team and very mediocre....that's the same team we're seeing in the first 20 games....

When you sign matthews to 11 plus for 5, easy to see why marner asked for over 10 when hes lead the team 2 years in a row.
Also, he didnt hold the team hostage, he never missed a preseason game
- Fakepartofme

I think the argument should have been made that he was playing with an 11 million dollar center in Tavares.

Someone here pointed out that Tavares may have increased his goal production but his point production was on par for his career. The difference was Marner had a huge point jump.

As well, Babcock even said earlier in the year the reason Marner wasn't playing like Marner was because he was used to playing with Tavares and Hyman. If you're paid almost 11 million then you should be able to carry your own line.

In hindsight he could of just signed him to 7 million at the start of the season and avoided the whole crap season from him.

He is starting good this year so its not worth complaining about at this point.
- Santo_44

I said back then it was 500gs too much....but whatever not the end of the world. If he hits 60pts this year, contract is fine.
Imo.

Engvall up and Moore to IR. Lovely

Just cannot get healthy and have everyone in the lineup this year at all!

Still think a move needs to be made and quick here too, and that move in behind the bench. I don't think you can let it go more than the next game or so before something gives to right the ship.
- Roadrunner75

I have only watched one Malries game and it was yesterdays game....but Engval is an NHL player.

He has the speed and the shot for it.

When you sign matthews to 11 plus for 5, easy to see why marner asked for over 10 when hes lead the team 2 years in a row.
Also, he didnt hold the team hostage, he never missed a preseason game
- Fakepartofme

Wasn't part of the issue the "no rookie bonus" in his ELC deal? Somehow, that became Dubas' fault even though Lou was the GM at the time.

I also recall reading that Ferris wanted that rookie bonus money to be added to the contract. If that's true then yes, he did hold them hostage for more money.

Tbh, I think it cuts deeper than you’re admitting, lol..

I don’t “ok boomer” people I know, because I know it offends them. You guys have no clap-back.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

Why is boomer ....or snowflake for that matter an insult?

Engvall up and Moore to IR. Lovely

Just cannot get healthy and have everyone in the lineup this year at all!

Still think a move needs to be made and quick here too, and that move in behind the bench. I don't think you can let it go more than the next game or so before something gives to right the ship.
- Roadrunner75

I honestly thought Babcock had this entire season to go and the management team hasn't really shown to bow to fan pressure so maybe that's still the game plan.

However, I'm beginning to think that maybe I was wrong. I think it takes another bad week before we see any significant move. "Injuries" will justify a lot of the problems here.