It’s nice to have the expectations, but paper and ice are 2 different things...maybe wait until we’re 20 points out in front 1st.

A lot of posters didn’t think our D looked anywhere close to being in the contender category.
- Garnie

Vegas knows people would put money on them.

There's no pleasing you guys.

If I had told you, before the season, you'd be 2 points ahead of Tampa in mid-november, most of you would have been pretty god damn happy about that scenario.

Now, it's happening, and it's not enough.

I GIVE UP.
- Scabeh

You Swedes
- RickJames77

It’s nice to have the expectations, but paper and ice are 2 different things...maybe wait until we’re 20 points out in front 1st.

A lot of posters didn’t think our D looked anywhere close to being in the contender category.
- Garnie

And that's fine but don't try to make it sound like a handful of Leaf's nation was the only ones predicting good things for this team. Most of the world is shocked by how poop they've been.

The team is poorly constructed.

The superstar leafs team pretty played themselves out of the playoffs by mid November.
Oh boy.
If this remains true, the trolls will have a field day.

Its gonna be so much fun in here.
Lol

Let's be honest here, what was the bad situation Lou created?
- walshyleafsfan

Marleau
Zaitsev (?)

Zaitsev contract, Marleau, his outdated policy on rookies not getting performance bonuses in their ELCs; that really pissed off Marner's group. Martin.
- gravyface

Zaitsev- cap hit not that bad. It’s average for defence now. Zaitsev looks like Chris Pronger compared to Ceci imo.
Marleau- only would have been under contract for this year. You telling me he couldn’t be better then Shore? We lost a 1st rounder for that. If Dubas hadn’t overpaid some unnamed players, we could have just kept him and let him play out the contract.
Rookie contracts- Rather that then Dubas ‘bend over and take it’ philosophy.
Martin- played good for us. Same with Leo.

But ya, all hail Dubas! No experience and we are shocked at what we see on the ice! Hockey is not an all-star/shinny competition!

The team is poorly constructed.

The superstar leafs team pretty played themselves out of the playoffs by mid November.
Oh boy.
If this remains true, the trolls will have a field day.

Its gonna be so much fun in here.
Lol
- Fakepartofme

This

There's no pleasing you guys.

If I had told you, before the season, you'd be 2 points ahead of Tampa in mid-november, most of you would have been pretty god damn happy about that scenario.

Now, it's happening, and it's not enough.

I GIVE UP.
- Scabeh

Ottawa is better than the Leafs right now.

There's no pleasing you guys.

If I had told you, before the season, you'd be 2 points ahead of Tampa in mid-november, most of you would have been pretty god damn happy about that scenario.

Now, it's happening, and it's not enough.

I GIVE UP.
- Scabeh

well played sir - well played

The team is poorly constructed.

The superstar leafs team pretty played themselves out of the playoffs by mid November.
Oh boy.
If this remains true, the trolls will have a field day.

Its gonna be so much fun in here.
Lol
- Fakepartofme

Oh well, just go with it. Let them have their fun.

Remember the vast majority of them are not going to be celebrating a cup win either this year.

Matthews will have some extra pep in his step on Thursday cause it's in Arizona. Then he will disappear again
- LeafGuy89

No...he will reappear, if that's what your thinking, against my Sabres next week. Your team is truly better than the record shows at this point.

What was the good reason?
They were a .500 team from jan until the end of the season last year
- Fakepartofme

Totally agree that's a fact. But, I think it's important to remember that the Leafs, B's and Lightning all had the division 1-3 locked up by Christmas.

Marleau
Zaitsev (?)
- Aetherial

Marleau has 9 points in 18 games. If our cap structure wasn’t so bad we could have just kept him for this year and not have a guy like Shore...

Zaitsev trade is meh. Ceci sucks large and it would be nice to have a guy like Brown still. Home grown and a solid player at a low cap hit...

Ottawa is better than the Leafs right now.
- Aetherial

Anthony Duclair is looking pretty good.

Taking advantage of his last chance.

Ottawa is better than the Leafs right now.
- Aetherial

Which is so leafy.

Still time

Totally agree that's a fact. But, I think it's important to remember that the Leafs, B's and Lightning all had the division 1-3 locked up by Christmas.
- The Law

Agreed.
The division only had 3-4 good teams though

Zaitsev- cap hit not that bad. It’s average for defence now. Zaitsev looks like Chris Pronger compared to Ceci imo.
Marleau- only would have been under contract for this year. You telling me he couldn’t be better then Shore? We lost a 1st rounder for that. If Dubas hadn’t overpaid some unnamed players, we could have just kept him and let him play out the contract.
Rookie contracts- Rather that then Dubas ‘bend over and take it’ philosophy.
Martin- played good for us. Same with Leo.

But ya, all hail Dubas! No experience and we are shocked at what we see on the ice! Hockey is not an all-star/shinny competition!
- Hockey_Reverend

Zaitsev has been terrible for the Sens. Muzzin made him almost passable in the playoffs last year, but let's not kid ourselves. Ceci and Zaitsev are a wash, but one is here for a year and the other... well... many more.

We had to move Marleau to make room for the kids; he made that deal knowing year three was going to be bad and he still did it, and year 2 was terrible. That's a bad move, cost us a 1st round pick to move him.

By "unnamed players", do you mean Marner? That's 100% why Marleau had to be moved. The rest of the signings (Nylander, Kapanen, Johnsson) are league average, aka fine.

Martin played good for us? Holy (frank)

Leo was ok, but if he was here with that contract (which Lou would've signed) we'd be even more screwed with the cap, and probably would've lost Kapanen or Johnsson, and likely both.

Honestly... how soon everyone forgets around here.

The team is poorly constructed.

The superstar leafs team pretty played themselves out of the playoffs by mid November.
Oh boy.
If this remains true, the trolls will have a field day.

Its gonna be so much fun in here.
Lol
- Fakepartofme

it started a while back... you know who the trolls really are... I think we can safely state the "DubasIsSoSmart" crowd chose to do what generations of dumb Leafs fans have done over the past 50 years... believe the hype machine.

they great thing is that there is genuinely a lot of talent there... but deciding on which talent & attitude to keep will be the difficult. Dubas has shown no ability to adjust ... just as Babcock has shown stubborness in trying new things.

it may actually work out for the best if they continue to flounder thru the NewYear... Babcock would be removed and Dubas would be on notice in full view of the media and fanbase.

I would suggest that - if the downward trend continues - they should move on from Babcock... and Dubas start moving out some of the skilled bodies he has accumulated for some guys who actually want to play - not just get paid. That's going to be tough for Dubas.... a public admission that building the team based soley on the Excel model "might" be a bit narrow minded.

or blame the data
or blame the glasses

Dunno bro, just sayin' the Vegas bookies had them at #2, soooo I can empathize with the excitement.

There's still a slim chance that this team figures out how to play hockey again and goes on a run and even do damage in the playoffs if they get momentum and stay healthy.
- gravyface

I was excited too, but had some hesitation about us being the best and telling every fan on the site ( is all I’m getting at )

Marleau has 9 points in 18 games. If our cap structure wasn’t so bad we could have just kept him for this year and not have a guy like Shore...

Zaitsev trade is meh. Ceci sucks large and it would be nice to have a guy like Brown still. Home grown and a solid player at a low cap hit...
- Hockey_Reverend

Ceci and Z are a wash
Both are meh. But z comes with 5 more years of meh...ceci is gone at the end of this season. You still do that trade.
Brown, meh. He wasnt going to the same chance here as he does in ottawa.
He had one good season with the leafs.

Marleau has 9 points in 18 games. If our cap structure wasn’t so bad we could have just kept him for this year and not have a guy like Shore...

Zaitsev trade is meh. Ceci sucks large and it would be nice to have a guy like Brown still. Home grown and a solid player at a low cap hit...
- Hockey_Reverend

meh... who wants Brown... when you can have a guy who costs more and can consistently do fly-bys at breakneck speed with hair flowing.

those fly-bys are important you know

Zaitsev contract, Marleau, his outdated policy on rookies not getting performance bonuses in their ELCs; that really pissed off Marner's group. Martin.
- gravyface

Zaitsev contract AAV is the same as Ceci. It wouldn't have changed our Cap situation this year. It's arguable that Zaitsev is better than Ceci, but that's another conversation already beaten to death.

Matt Martin makes 2.5 mil and this is his last year. Marleau made 6.25 mil and this would've been his last year. That's 8.75m.

Let's say that neither would've been Robidas islanded (probably unlikely).

We would've had Kadri at 4.5m but not Kerfoot and Barrie at 6.25mil - A savings of 1.75mil.

We wouldn't have had Muzzin, but we would've had Brown at 2.1, so we're back up to 5.1 mil over.

The big question is, would he have gone after Tavares hard, or just have had a meeting to see where everyone was at?

I think it's safe to say that over the big 3 RFA's he would've saved around 4 or 5 mil.

Lou left Kyle with cap space, options, futures, and a team heavily on the rise. Matt Martin and Marleau only ever became an issue when we signed Tavares and overpaid at least 2 of the big 3 RFAs. Kyle's handling of those 3 contracts specifically has left us without an NHL backup, and the inability to have a full roster when everyone is healthy.

Marleau has 9 points in 18 games. If our cap structure wasn’t so bad we could have just kept him for this year and not have a guy like Shore...

Zaitsev trade is meh. Ceci sucks large and it would be nice to have a guy like Brown still. Home grown and a solid player at a low cap hit...
- Hockey_Reverend

Dude, go to Capfriendly.com and play around with roster construction if you're really struggling this badly to put the numbers together.

There is no way we'd have been able to sign some/all of the Marner/Kapanen/Johnsson trio if Marleau and Brown were still here.

Brown was the price to get out from under Zaitsev's contract. I liked Brown, everyone did, but we had no room in our top 9 for him and he was overpaid for a 4th liner.

Can the coach, play a system that suits this lineup, and let's try to salvage the season.

Zaitsev has been terrible for the Sens. Muzzin made him almost passable in the playoffs last year, but let's not kid ourselves. Ceci and Zaitsev are a wash, but one is here for a year and the other... well... many more.

We had to move Marleau to make room for the kids; he made that deal knowing year three was going to be bad and he still did it, and year 2 was terrible. That's a bad move, cost us a 1st round pick to move him.

By "unnamed players", do you mean Marner? That's 100% why Marleau had to be moved. The rest of the signings (Nylander, Kapanen, Johnsson) are league average, aka fine.

Martin played good for us? Holy (frank)

Leo was ok, but if he was here with that contract (which Lou would've signed) we'd be even more screwed with the cap, and probably would've lost Kapanen or Johnsson, and likely both.

Honestly... how soon everyone forgets around here.
- gravyface

Forget? Have you seen this current team? Martin made peanuts and did his job and was never that bad. Leo cared and smashed and made a low salary. Dubas has made a mess of this group. I would rather have Martin, Leo on teh 4th line then Shore/AHL player. And yes, I know, we cant afford them... who’s fault is that? DUBAS.

Zaitsev cost us brown, a good soldier on a good contract. But whatever, that is meh.

The construction of this team is wrong and its Dubas fault. Dubas thought you could build a winning team like an Allstar team. He was wrong. But yes, everyone keep blaming Uncle Lou for what we see.