And....this is the very kinda toughness and grit I speak of. The willingness to stand up, even lose a fight...just to back a teammate. Earlier this year McDavid was hit cleanly in open ice. Within 3 seconds no less than 3 or 4 Oilers were all up in the face of the hitter. It energized the Oil. I saw a "TEAM" that had each others back. This is what lacks from many of these teams based purlely on icing the most skilled guys. SOME of this can be learned by most of the players on a roster, but some guys are not willing, and that's when you need to bring in some guys to fill that role.

Think of Cup winners....
Blues...a whole team of toughness
Bruins, skill and toughness blended
Kings...again, a whoile team of toughness
Hawks...Bickell, Bolland, Byfuglein....all key to compliment the skill
probably softest Pens...still...Bonino, Kunitz, Rust, Cullen high grit key players, actually Hagelin and Bonino were huge playoff point producers.

Grit is key to winning. Especially the grind of the playoffs. When I see a soft, purely skill based team win it all....then, I may agree with that type of roster construction. But, I haven't seen that done yet. So....show me the money!
- hawk35

This.

You don't have to be a team full of Adam Mair's (although that response was warranted).

Just stick up for one another. Team toughness. Pack mentality.

We have zero of that.

2 more guys who can (frank)ing score is the most important
- jcragcrumple

Botterill is failing this franchise. The ability for mass turnover begins in the 2020 off season, and for the first time in his tenure, I'm not really sure I want him handling it. He's done some good things, made some good draft picks, but he's also believed in a squad of players that don't deserve that praise, as a group. If you're going to be a one line team, that one line needs to absolutely dominate. Every single game. Otherwise, you need a top 6. This team has neither. It has Jack Eichel and sometimes Sam Reinhart and sometimes Jeff Skinner and sometimes Victor Olofsson.

I honestly do not know what Botterill thinks of this squad of players. It'd be easy to assume he's disappointed, but I would be absolutely bewildered that he looked at this batch of forwards and believes they're good enough to compete with the top half of the league.

Ding Ding, we have a winner. It's time for the players to take responsibility for this poop.
- Buff36

Didn't Lehner call out this team when he was here? I think it was Bylsma but still. He basically said he was disrespecting him and not doing what they were taught.

This.

You don't have to be a team full of Adam Mair's (although that response was warranted).

Just stick up for one another. Team toughness. Pack mentality.

We have zero of that.
- Powerslave

Even drew stafford was fighting after that hit.

This is organizational rot. Radical sweeping changes are needed.

The bills got rid of everyone. The sabres got rid of pominville.

The penguins

Twice in a row. 15 months ago
- jcragcrumple

And....this is the very kinda toughness and grit I speak of. The willingness to stand up, even lose a fight...just to back a teammate. Earlier this year McDavid was hit cleanly in open ice. Within 3 seconds no less than 3 or 4 Oilers were all up in the face of the hitter. It energized the Oil. I saw a "TEAM" that had each others back. This is what lacks from many of these teams based purlely on icing the most skilled guys. SOME of this can be learned by most of the players on a roster, but some guys are not willing, and that's when you need to bring in some guys to fill that role.

Think of Cup winners....
Blues...a whole team of toughness
Bruins, skill and toughness blended
Kings...again, a whoile team of toughness
Hawks...Bickell, Bolland, Byfuglein....all key to compliment the skill
probably softest Pens...still...Bonino, Kunitz, Rust, Cullen high grit key players, actually Hagelin and Bonino were huge playoff point producers.

Grit is key to winning. Especially the grind of the playoffs. When I see a soft, purely skill based team win it all....then, I may agree with that type of roster construction. But, I haven't seen that done yet. So....show me the money!
- hawk35


The penguins

Twice in a row. 15 months ago


Guess, you didn;t read it all....too anxious to post???

And for (frank) sakes, someone do a Sobotka related PK study. Percentage when he's on, and off, the ice.

Christ.

And....this is the very kinda toughness and grit I speak of. The willingness to stand up, even lose a fight...just to back a teammate. Earlier this year McDavid was hit cleanly in open ice. Within 3 seconds no less than 3 or 4 Oilers were all up in the face of the hitter. It energized the Oil. I saw a "TEAM" that had each others back. This is what lacks from many of these teams based purlely on icing the most skilled guys. SOME of this can be learned by most of the players on a roster, but some guys are not willing, and that's when you need to bring in some guys to fill that role.

Think of Cup winners....
Blues...a whole team of toughness
Bruins, skill and toughness blended
Kings...again, a whoile team of toughness
Hawks...Bickell, Bolland, Byfuglein....all key to compliment the skill
probably softest Pens...still...Bonino, Kunitz, Rust, Cullen high grit key players, actually Hagelin and Bonino were huge playoff point producers.

Grit is key to winning. Especially the grind of the playoffs. When I see a soft, purely skill based team win it all....then, I may agree with that type of roster construction. But, I haven't seen that done yet. So....show me the money!
- hawk35


The penguins

Twice in a row. 15 months ago


Guess, you didn;t read it all....too anxious to post???
- hawk35

I read it, and I disagree

I read it, and I disagree
- jcragcrumple

This "grit" and "wolfpack mentality" are more than likely byproducts of winning. Guarantee someone goes after Cernak last night if the team hasnt won one in their last billion games.

Botterill is failing this franchise. The ability for mass turnover begins in the 2020 off season, and for the first time in his tenure, I'm not really sure I want him handling it. He's done some good things, made some good draft picks, but he's also believed in a squad of players that don't deserve that praise, as a group. If you're going to be a one line team, that one line needs to absolutely dominate. Every single game. Otherwise, you need a top 6. This team has neither. It has Jack Eichel and sometimes Sam Reinhart and sometimes Jeff Skinner and sometimes Victor Olofsson.

I honestly do not know what Botterill thinks of this squad of players. It'd be easy to assume he's disappointed, but I would be absolutely bewildered that he looked at this batch of forwards and believes they're good enough to compete with the top half of the league.
- TheSabresTaco

I'm still undecided whether he thought this would be a good team. If he did, he's an idiot

And....this is the very kinda toughness and grit I speak of. The willingness to stand up, even lose a fight...just to back a teammate. Earlier this year McDavid was hit cleanly in open ice. Within 3 seconds no less than 3 or 4 Oilers were all up in the face of the hitter. It energized the Oil. I saw a "TEAM" that had each others back. This is what lacks from many of these teams based purlely on icing the most skilled guys. SOME of this can be learned by most of the players on a roster, but some guys are not willing, and that's when you need to bring in some guys to fill that role.

Think of Cup winners....
Blues...a whole team of toughness
Bruins, skill and toughness blended
Kings...again, a whoile team of toughness
Hawks...Bickell, Bolland, Byfuglein....all key to compliment the skill
probably softest Pens...still...Bonino, Kunitz, Rust, Cullen high grit key players, actually Hagelin and Bonino were huge playoff point producers.

Grit is key to winning. Especially the grind of the playoffs. When I see a soft, purely skill based team win it all....then, I may agree with that type of roster construction. But, I haven't seen that done yet. So....show me the money!
- hawk35

Nope, having the hottest goalie and your best players performing like your best players are what wins in the playoffs.

Pittsburgh won back to back cups with absolutely no toughness.

What did toughness have to do with Kuznetsov putting up 35 points in the playoffs on route to the Caps win and John Carlson being a Norris-trophy like defender ? Sure having a guy like Wilson helps and Ovi hitting people helped but it’s because of Ovi’s contributions to the scoreboard are what mattered and Holtby being a brick wall

Carolina didn’t lose in the ECF because they were out toughed, they lost because their scoring dried up due to lack of top end talent.

ROR, Tarasenko, Schenn, Pietrangelo, playing their best hockey and Binnington being a rock won them a cup. The Blues were out shot and out chanced 2:1 in Game 7 and their goalie stole them one.

Bergeron line making Tavares and Marner irrelevant and Rask being a brick wall won them that series.

If Stamkos and Kucherov step up and Vasy can stop a beachball, the Lightning will one too. They won’t win one because they have Luke Schenn, Pat Maroon, and Erik Cernak.

How tough is Justin Williams ? Cause the guy seems to show up in the playoffs every year no matter what team he played for.

It’s honestly comical how botts isn’t doing anything. I don’t care if you trade Risto for a bag of condoms. Show ownership, the team, and the fans are you trying.

Letting it slip away .... again. Should be I acceptable
- Sabretooth9

Dreger said that Botts has “been working hard” to make trades for forward help

Making bad trades is a terrible idea

It's amazing how much "tougher" players look when they win games.

I'm still undecided whether he thought this would be a good team. If he did, he's an idiot
- jcragcrumple

I have absolutely no qualms if he uses this year's first round pick for a real player. Not lottery protected. Maybe 1st OA protected. Depending on the return. Find the right guy and pay the PRICE.

This.

You don't have to be a team full of Adam Mair's (although that response was warranted).

Just stick up for one another. Team toughness. Pack mentality.

We have zero of that.
- Powerslave

We need more talent and more heart. Toughness is useful if the guy can play hockey if not it’s not needed.

It's amazing how much "tougher" players look when they win games.
- buffalofan19

Being physically tough is one thing. Being mentally tough separates great teams from everyone else. Being able to bounce back after a bad period, bad goal or two. This team hasn't shown that in years.

Being physically tough is one thing. Being mentally tough separates great teams from everyone else. Being able to bounce back after a bad period, bad goal or two. This team hasn't shown that in years.
- TheSabresTaco

No, it hasn't, but as much as I would liked them to "respond" better to the Dahlin hit, something that nobody on the ice seems to have seen at the time it happened, it's not the reason they aren't a good team.

Dreger said that Botts has “been working hard” to make trades for forward help

Making bad trades is a terrible idea
- jdfitz77

I understand that ..... but holy cow. Get moving. Maybe the team perks up knowing we traded for a forward or 2.

We have heard he’s been trying hard for about a month

Dreger said that Botts has “been working hard” to make trades for forward help

Making bad trades is a terrible idea
- jdfitz77

Being physically tough is one thing. Being mentally tough separates great teams from everyone else. Being able to bounce back after a bad period, bad goal or two. This team hasn't shown that in years.
- TheSabresTaco

This I agree with 100%.

We need more talent and more heart. Toughness is useful if the guy can play hockey if not it’s not needed.
- Pegullaville

Ok, but I said TEAM toughness.

Stick up for one another.

These guys are pu$$ies.

I am more pissed at the players than I am at Botts, he has had to build from bottom to top and used what was available to bring players in. It wasn't like are system was stacked, and he had a lot of trade chips to use. Yes he has made some mistakes. I cannot fathom what is going through these players heads, if you don't want to be here, fine stop taking the free money and terminate your contract some how, give yourself the freedom to see if someone else will take you on, the way you are playing, most of you would be lucky to get another shot. Sorry rambling on, I am pissed after last night. Tired of these players wearing skirts and not hockey pants, it's embarrassing. You don't have to be a team of face punchers, but be a team that cares about each other and sticks up for each other. Some of these players don't deserve to be representing Buffalo.

i know of a free agent who is both very tough and an all star mvp

I am more pissed at the players than I am at Botts, he has had to build from bottom to top and used what was available to bring players in. It wasn't like are system was stacked, and he had a lot of trade chips to use. Yes he has made some mistakes. I cannot fathom what is going through these players heads, if you don't want to be here, fine stop taking the free money and terminate your contract some how, give yourself the freedom to see if someone else will take you on, the way you are playing, most of you would be lucky to get another shot. Sorry rambling on, I am pissed after last night. Tired of these players wearing skirts and not hockey pants, it's embarrassing. You don't have to be a team of face punchers, but be a team that cares about each other and sticks up for each other. Some of these players don't deserve to be representing Buffalo.
- Buff36

Spot on.

Dreger said that Botts has “been working hard” to make trades for forward help

Making bad trades is a terrible idea
- jdfitz77

like trying to get jeff carter?

So you added toughness and are on pace to lose as many games as you did last season by game 40 of this year if not sooner.

If Stamkos wasn’t as effective as Girgensons in the playoffs you guys might win a cup. Kucherov has what ? 1 point in his last 8 playoff games ?
- Pegullaville

We'll never win a Cup under Cooper. I wouldn't expect it at all.