It's a shame Pilut and Borgen are not up here, can't think they would be any worse then 4 out of the 7 Dman we have playing right now
- Buff36

Makes no sense due to waivers and personnel and stripping the Amerks and the cap, but I hear you.

That's this entire thread. The. Entire. Thread.
- TheSabresTaco

It's funny how other people use it it is alright, said player has this amount of points in said games but didn't include the other 30 games. Come on you are nitpicking on people cause you don't want to hear what they say, but it's fine when it fits certain people's narrative.

I wouldn't say Miller sucks, but, tried to warn you guys. This is a genuine "They laughed when I said.."

He's average. Analytics twitter tried to pump his tires to the max, all because he dominated below average competition. He still does fine vs them, but against better competition and without a definitive partner to make him better, I guess, like Marco has, he's just... I don't know, the bottom half of this wad of poop defense.
- TheSabresTaco

To be fair to him, he's been in and out of the lineup, was paired with Dahlin when Dahlin was awful, and has yet to have a stable partner, and has played LD with Risto.

This team has a penchant for making useful players useless.

Johansson is brutal at center, yet they keep trotting him out there

It's funny how other people use it it is alright, said player has this amount of points in said games but didn't include the other 30 games. Come on you are nitpicking on people cause you don't want to hear what they say, but it's fine when it fits certain people's narrative.
- Buff36

Sorry Taco hit the wrong post

The problem with the theory that we'd be better off with 2/3 3-4 mil players as opposed to having Sam or Skinner at 9 mil, is more times than not, those guys tend to be the Vesey/Johansson/Sheary caliber players who go months on end of bad play or no production. They are passengers.

Sign the good players you have, and draft well, and you will have cheap talent to supplement your high priced guys.

If Dylan Cozens is a legit 2C next year you have 2 years of him being ridiculously cheap.
- sbroads24

You can't replace guys like Skinner or Reinhart with multiple depth players. If you replace them, they need to be someone that moves the needle.

It's funny how other people use it it is alright, said player has this amount of points in said games but didn't include the other 30 games. Come on you are nitpicking on people cause you don't want to hear what they say, but it's fine when it fits certain people's narrative.
- Buff36

It's all narrative. The only way to assess a guy is with season long sample sizes. But players change, linemate changes, coaching changes, it allows for public opinions to change.

But don't (frank)ing tell me that a player is doing bad because in this section of games he only has 1 goal despite every underlying number, mostly including the all inclusive positive play driving, has such and such player as one of the top 10 in the league. Consistently season over season.

You can't replace guys like Skinner or Reinhart with multiple depth players. If you replace them, they need to be someone that moves the needle.
- buffalofan19

Pretty much.

It's hard to find teams who can consistently have multiple good value depth players. They eventually cost more than theyre worth.

It's why you need your draft picks to be that depth

Anybody touch on the fact that oloffson looks more like a professional hockey player than Sam?


I'll go on record and say - olofsson, picked 179 picks later in the same draft, playing as a rookie will end up with more points this season than sam.

He passes the eye test

To be fair to him, he's been in and out of the lineup, was paired with Dahlin when Dahlin was awful, and has yet to have a stable partner, and has played LD with Risto.

This team has a penchant for making useful players useless.

Johansson is brutal at center, yet they keep trotting him out there
- sbroads24

I made sure to include the inconsistent partners thing in my post. He's not the highest defenseman in order to bash, I'll tell you that.

To be fair to him, he's been in and out of the lineup, was paired with Dahlin when Dahlin was awful, and has yet to have a stable partner, and has played LD with Risto.

This team has a penchant for making useful players useless.

Johansson is brutal at center, yet they keep trotting him out there
- sbroads24

Botterill caused that. Look at our center depth. It's absolutely laughable and he has done (i) to fix it.

We have a 1C and a bunch of 3/4 C's.

Anybody touch on the fact that oloffson looks more like a professional hockey player than Sam?


I'll go on record and say - olofsson, picked 179 picks later in the same draft, playing as a rookie will end up with more points this season than sam.

He passes the eye test
- Boss34

I'm not sure how to quantify this question. Or what makes one player more professional on ice than another. Are we going back to the Sam Is A Loafer conversation, or is it purely based on Olofsson having more offense.

Botterill caused that. Look at our center depth. It's absolutely laughable and he has done (i) to fix it.

We have a 1C and a bunch of 3/4 C's.
- TheSabresTaco

Could cozens be our future 2c?

Maybe casey develops?

The problem with the theory that we'd be better off with 2/3 3-4 mil players as opposed to having Sam or Skinner at 9 mil, is more times than not, those guys tend to be the Vesey/Johansson/Sheary caliber players who go months on end of bad play or no production. They are passengers.

Sign the good players you have, and draft well, and you will have cheap talent to supplement your high priced guys.

If Dylan Cozens is a legit 2C next year you have 2 years of him being ridiculously cheap.
- sbroads24

ELC are gold in this league. It’s just a shame that Mitts hasn’t provided the value that we were all hoping for.

Could cozens be our future 2c?

Maybe casey develops?
- Boss34

Sure they could. But they certainly aren't this year.

You can't replace guys like Skinner or Reinhart with multiple depth players. If you replace them, they need to be someone that moves the needle.
- buffalofan19

Ok, and I can agree that Skinner can generate those chances for himself and can produce with lesser talent and he’s proven that.

What about Sam though ? Is that a guy we give 8 years too ?

Do we feel comfortable paying $17M of our cap on two wingers ?

Sure they could. But they certainly aren't this year.
- TheSabresTaco

Or last year. And to force cozens into that position next year is insane. You’ll just do to him, what they’ve done to mitts. Which is ruin a promising young talent. Maybe mitts turns it around on the wing. But without a solid 2c this team ain’t going no where

It's just so obvious what should happen

Ristolainen is a UFA in two years.

We need to pay Joker, Dahlin, Montour, Pilut before then.

The chances we give Ristolainen a giant extension should be around 0%.

He should be moved, maybe even with Mittelstadt or Asplund or another attractive piece to get a top 6 player.

It's on Botterill to make the obvious move here
- sbroads24

I believe Botterill is gun shy to move any players after the ROR trade

Look at all the other trades he's done, there hasn't been a roster player moved other than O'Reilly and depending on who you believe that could have been pushed by Pegula.

Point is Botterill is either being super calculated which now it's doing more harm than good or he is gun shy

Ok, and I can agree that Skinner can generate those chances for himself and can produce with lesser talent and he’s proven that.

What about Sam though ? Is that a guy we give 8 years too ?

Do we feel comfortable paying $17M of our cap on two wingers ?
- Pegullaville

There’s 15M right now between skinner and okposo. That’d make 23M between the 3 of them.

Or last year. And to force cozens into that position next year is insane. You’ll just do to him, what they’ve done to mitts. Which is ruin a promising young talent. Maybe mitts turns it around on the wing. But without a solid 2c this team ain’t going no where
- Gr8daygo

Players are different, just because mitts didn't step up, doesnt mean cozens can't.

Different size/speed and growth

Cant lump all players into the same category in my opinion

Players are different, just because mitts didn't step up, doesnt mean cozens can't.

Different size/speed and growth

Cant lump all players into the same category in my opinion
- Boss34

I can certainly lump a Jr player who’s obviously young into the NHL at the 2c position as a very limited chance for success. Do we have to run through the list of centers again. You want this team to be successful, you want cozens to be successful, then he should be the 3c or on the wing next year.

Projecting him to the 2c is exactly the issues this team has been plagued by for years.

Leino can play center. Wait, we will draft grigrenko and put him there. Don’t worry, bergland can play center! Oh he ran away, Mitts will be fine there! Gus is a center, yeah he will be the future captain, Allstar! Wait wait wait, Johansson played center 5 years ago! That has to work! Samson! That’s it he was drafted as a center, second overall even! That’s gotta work!

Come on man. Projecting Cozens as the 2c is short sighted and insane!

new blog

I would trade Sam in a second if it helped bring someone better in. Still like Skinner, just want more from him. Would have helped if he had buried 1 of those chances he had last night
- Buff36

How many more times are u gonna day this?
I’ve seen it about 400xs now

And with Sam, who’s trading someone better?
Like i said...
Sam + isn’t getting us Gaudreau or any other young star player
Not unless the “+” is extremely substantial

I keep hearing how the core isn’t good enough,
but guys like Pasternak aren't getting traded

A guy like Hall is available bc of his UFA status,
but we don’t know if he’d sign here (prob not?)

The day when Reinhart/Skinner are the 4th and 5th best forward options we have will be the day this team has a forward corps worthy of cup contender status.

Mitts’ fall from top 3 prospect in the NHL to where he is now doesn’t help the cause.

Olofsson has been a pleasant surprise.

Cozens is doing what he can at this point to justify his draft positioning.

The bottom 6 of this roster for the most part is a joke. Multiple d-man we have are a joke. We don’t have a goalie that I have full confidence in, however Ullmark has been much better lately.

That doesn’t mean Sam and Skinner or even Jack (last night) can fully escape blame.

Sam has just a good a chance to be moved then he does to be resigned long term.

Jeff is a good player but I still believe we are looking for an out in the deal by year 4.

Why can’t we question why the “core” isn’t good enough along with the multiple players on expiring deals that realistically shouldn’t be here past this year ?
- Pegullaville

Is that really what u think you’re doing?
Bc it’s not
You’re non stop b!tching since June
There’s a huge difference

Skinner is here, and not going anywhere
Complaining about him is utterly pointless

Sam is a decent topic of convo Bc it’s possible we could trade him
But half of the stuff ppl bash him for is also ridiculous

How many more times are u gonna day this?
I’ve seen it about 400xs now

And with Sam, who’s trading someone better?
Like i said...
Sam + isn’t getting us Gaudreau or any other young star player
Not unless the “+” is extremely substantial

I keep hearing how the core isn’t good enough,
but guys like Pasternak aren't getting traded

A guy like Hall is available bc of his UFA status,
but we don’t know if he’d sign here (prob not?)
- jdfitz77

I will say it until he cashes in, you can say what you want about what I think, what has he done lately, please tell me. Are we winning games, no. I am not just blaming him, but come on, would we have won more games in this last stretch if he would have cashed some of those chances, sure would have helped. I don't care if he is shooting at some percentage, he hasn't done poop in the last 15 games and it's hurting this team.