It is going to be a long ride for the team to contend again. Unfortunate yes but also understandable and after 3 cups most Hawk fans should be able to understand that.
- paulr

Im perfectly OK with it....Im just asking to make smart hockey trades to help expedite the rebuild. Its the reality of a cap world.....you have to pick and choose wisely who to hitch your wagon to as a GM and reward on what will happen, not what HAS happened.

That's my issue with Stan, that and outside of maybe DeBrincat I don't see a new core to build around....the 2nd generation so to speak.

Does this mean he's going to sign Crawford for another 5-6 years at a similar or higher cap number?

Rumor is LA is ready to fire their second set of rebuilders...
- rpeters01

The grass is always greener.

You really think Karlsson was a good signing? Wow. He's been headed downhill for several years already, and that will be an awful contract.
- mohel

Do I think it was a good signing? NO. Do I see why Wilson did it given the recent trends that special teams are becoming more and more a factor and offensive defensemen are extremely valuable......I get it, but Im not a sharks fan.

Q was fired because they realized they were entering a rebuild, and, yes, that's not Q's thing at this stage of his career. If they think Stan can't do the rebuild, they'll find a builder and fire Stan. I think if they were going to do that Stan would have left with Q.

You find a fresh face to get better results than the old face. Not some make believe new face - an actual new face, with a name.
- mohel

When I see all that talent around the league that used to be Hawks just a few years ago and then compare to the talent on our current roster I’m convinced Stan doesn’t know how to rebuild. So it’s time to find that builder.

Im perfectly OK with it....Im just asking to make smart hockey trades to help expedite the rebuild. Its the reality of a cap world.....you have to pick and choose wisely who to hitch your wagon to as a GM and reward on what will happen, not what HAS happened.

That's my issue with Stan, that and outside of maybe DeBrincat I don't see a new core to build around....the 2nd generation so to speak.

Does this mean he's going to sign Crawford for another 5-6 years at a similar or higher cap number?
- SteveRain

Where did the last core come from? Did that core come when the Hawks were good? Come on Steve, debating is pointless when you refuse to acknowledge both sides of the situation.

When I see all that talent around the league that used to be Hawks just a few years ago and then compare to the talent on our current roster I’m convinced Stan doesn’t know how to rebuild. So it’s time to find that builder.
- SimpleJack

Like who?

You fire him if (when) you believe that he is a maintainer rather than a builder - someone who can fill in around a good proven core with complementary players, keeping a team on top for a period of time as pieces inevitably fall off - rather than someone who can start at the bottom and, in a reasonable period of time, bring a team to the top.

Jerry Kraus was fired when Reinsdorf finally understood that his GM was the former - filling in around Jordan and Pippen and being a good contributor to 6 championships - but when that ended (not ignoring his contribution to that part of the picture, too) he was completely unable to return the franchise to the top.

Kraus-Jackson, Bowman-Q - as many conflicts as existed within the pairings, they were poles who successful won titles when presented with a core of high quality talent to develop and build around. Neither of the pairings - none of the four - is the right one to be involved in a rebuild (although Stan’s ability to do so may be in doubt).

When Rocky / McD begin to believe that Stan isn’t the right GM for what the Hawks are going through now....
- StLBravesFan

the almost 16 years of paxson regime...not so hot either

I realize he's not a purdy skater, but how many Norris trophies does keith have ..... Oh and how many cups, gold medals and Stanley cup MVPs?
- paulr

Lets be crystal clear......Duncan Keith doesn't win a NOrris trophy if Seabrook isn't his partner. Period.

Seabrook will go down as 1 of the most under appreciated players of that glory run. Not a doubt in my mind.

I despise his current deal because it's way too long and it was rewarding him for his past success with zero eyes on the future.....but he absorbed so many damn keith bombs in his own end that under pressure he got out......no wonder his body is breaking down.

He never got the pimping from Foley that Keith did......he was the true captain of this team and if you don't think so go back and watch game 4 in Detroit when little Johnny was throwing a temper tantrum and landing in the box almost every shift he was on the ice...….

Where did the last core come from? Did that core come when the Hawks were good? Come on Steve, debating is pointless when you refuse to acknowledge both sides of the situation.
- paulr

im pointing to Bowman rewarding for past success......thats' my point on Crawford.

You want a bad deal? They sign him for any longer then 2-3 tops above 6 million and Seabrook's will look like a bargain.

Like who?
- paulr

im guessing hes referencing past players who were dealt and their stats vs what they have now.....

They were not very good before these injuries hit, the goalies masked the flaws. Sadly, this is one of the league's worst teams. Unseen decline of veterans, misses on trades, unrealistic expectations, the natural result after building for Cup runs, doesn't matter it is what it is.

The Hawks need to put ANYONE on the trade block. There will be no more Cups for the "core 5" of 88, 19, 7, 2 and 50. 88 is still playing at a high level, 19 is serviceable but for his cap hit they need more than just serviceable, Craw is aging and the injuries have piled up but man he can still play, Keith is now injured but like Toews I think serviceable but his cap hit makes it workable and Seabrook is washed up.

I think you offer any of those guys. But don't trade them for just anything. I think 88 and 50 could get you quite a haul (and don't move Kane unless it's for a franchise altering package of prospects), Keith also has quality value, 19 and 7 are not movable, but you at least try. Toews looks frustrated, not happy, complaining, I think the pressure has taken its toll. Maybe moving to another team where he can just be a hockey player and not "Captain Serious" could rejuvenate his career.

I don't know if anyone else aside from our top prospects has tons of value, but see what teams think of these guys. Maybe someone is jonesing for Dylan Strome and will offer a quality package. You at least have to check it out, this team is years away from relevancy and by that time 2, 50 and 7 will be completely finished, Toews may be a 10 million dollar fourth liner.

The time is now for monster changes but I am not sure Bowman is the guy to lead that charge. They need to find a GM with a keen eye for talent. Let that GM rebuild this thing and let him pick the next coach. Managing an already loaded team by making ancillary moves to support the core was something Stan was able to handle, but a complete rebuild I think is too heavy a lift for him.
- kwolf68

You're probably right about needing to blow up the core to compete for a Cup, but I really want to see 2, 7, 19, 50 and 88 play their whole careers in Chicago. They were instrumental in giving us 3 Cups, and I will never bad mouth them. I would hate to see any of them in another team's sweater. The only one I'm of the fence about is Crow, but I lean towards him as a Hawk for life.

Dylan Strome is going to get $5.5M on a new deal? Tyler, you must have been up very late last night and started dreaming at the keyboard. Unless he goes on some historic Mario Lemieux type scoring run in the next 50 games there isn't a chance in hell that he pulls that kind of money out of Chicago. He will take a $4M bridge deal and pretend to like it. Very disappointing season so far for Strome. I can see why Tocchet launched him.
- RickJ

Based on articles about Strome since joining the Hawks, I wouldn't be surprised if he is satisfied with a modest bridge deal as long as DeBrincat is not a trade asset.

Strome loves the organization and the opportunity to play with his bestie, so he seems eternally grateful to have the chance to prove his worth in Chicago.

Or Strome could have a hardball agent who will milk the Hawks as much as possible. If that's the case, then that changes the calculus.

Lets be crystal clear......Duncan Keith doesn't win a NOrris trophy if Seabrook isn't his partner. Period.

Seabrook will go down as 1 of the most under appreciated players of that glory run. Not a doubt in my mind.

I despise his current deal because it's way too long and it was rewarding him for his past success with zero eyes on the future.....but he absorbed so many damn keith bombs in his own end that under pressure he got out......no wonder his body is breaking down.

He never got the pimping from Foley that Keith did......he was the true captain of this team and if you don't think so go back and watch game 4 in Detroit when little Johnny was throwing a temper tantrum and landing in the box almost every shift he was on the ice...….
- SteveRain

And Karlsson won the Norris because he was a good defender? He won for only one reason, he score a poop load of points. With or without Seabrook Keith was and is a far better defenseman than Karlsson could dream to be.

Like who?
- paulr

I’ve listed the names on several other posts.

But I’ll do it again cuz it’s so much fun:

Panarin
Teravainen
Schmaltz

...those 3 alone would be an entire “1st” line.

Danault
Hinostroza
DuClair
Kahun

...that’s a lot of speed/skill that could boost a bottom 6.

Kempny
Jokiharju
Oesterle
Leddy
TVR

...a lot of mobility(excluding TVR), which is what we lack on the blue line more than anything.

Raanta

There’s probably more I’m forgetting.

Anyone else think the Hawks should simplify their game? Although they've seemed to make adjustments to the man on man in the D zone, the forwards are still playing a variation of the man to man. Young players are trying to learn positioning as it is, this seems to be adding fuel to the fire.

I don't think its a coincidence that the 3rd and 4th lines have had the most consistent success this year by playing a simplified game.


How about the dreaded transition game out of their own zone? In the rarity when they can backhand the puck up the boards and out of the zone, the opposition gets it back and re-enters the zone. Nothing about this strategy screams in control. It seems more like a desperation attempt to fight another day. However, they end up exhausting themselves out.

I hate complaining but damn this is painful to watch.
- catrisc

Definitely agree that the Hawks should simplify their game on both ends but for whatever reason that is easier said than done for this squad. It's being debated ad nauseum whether this dilemma is on the players, the coaches, the GM, all of the above, etc.

As a few other posters have commented on already, I would like to see how this roster performs with an experienced NHL coach and assistants who have track records of systems that work.

You're probably right about needing to blow up the core to compete for a Cup, but I really want to see 2, 7, 19, 50 and 88 play their whole careers in Chicago. They were instrumental in giving us 3 Cups, and I will never bad mouth them. I would hate to see any of them in another team's sweater. The only one I'm of the fence about is Crow, but I lean towards him as a Hawk for life.
- tvetter

In general....I wonder if Patriots fans sit around and marvel at their past success, or continue to want MORE. Damn them. Greedy.

that's the model...of any cap franchise. Win a title, restock, build around a few key components, and keep winning......I mean when they wouldn't win did they sit around and say its ok....we won in 2002, and so on...….or did they expect more out of their team and then enjoy more titles?

Wish I knew a pats fan....

im guessing hes referencing past players who were dealt and their stats vs what they have now.....
- SteveRain

I know who he's talking about, I was going to go through each one with him. Most were made for cap issues or to keep the Hawk's in a contending position. Danault was a horrible deal and mainly because Q and Bowman obviously never discussed it. Other than that there is a legit reason for most of the trades. the recent ones ie: Joki for Nylander we won't know for a couple of years.

When I see all that talent around the league that used to be Hawks just a few years ago and then compare to the talent on our current roster I’m convinced Stan doesn’t know how to rebuild. So it’s time to find that builder.
- SimpleJack

Just curious - do you think that Stan had ANY role in the 2013-2015 run?

Or was it all Tallon’s core, and the rest just fell into place - anyone could have done it?

And Karlsson won the Norris because he was a good defender? He won for only one reason, he score a poop load of points. With or without Seabrook Keith was and is a far better defenseman than Karlsson could dream to be.
- paulr

Keith wasn't even the best defensive defensemen on his own....that was Hammer.

Keith was their most well rounded, but in regards to defending....that one goes to Nik.

And yes Hossa is a HOF, but their inability to fill his shoes 50%, even with the reacquiring of Saad, and the trade of Hammer......that got this decline into the level of NOT being a playoff team......

In general....I wonder if Patriots fans sit around and marvel at their past success, or continue to want MORE. Damn them. Greedy.

that's the model...of any cap franchise. Win a title, restock, build around a few key components, and keep winning......I mean when they wouldn't win did they sit around and say its ok....we won in 2002, and so on...….or did they expect more out of their team and then enjoy more titles?

Wish I knew a pats fan....
- SteveRain

No, I get it. I'm not saying other fans are wrong for wanting to blow it up, just that I'm ok with some down years to not see my favorite players on another team.

I’ve listed the names on several other posts.

But I’ll do it again cuz it’s so much fun:

Panarin
Teravainen
Schmaltz

...those 3 alone would be an entire “1st” line.

Danault
Hinostroza
DuClair
Kahun

...that’s a lot of speed/skill that could boost a bottom 6.

Kempny
Jokiharju
Oesterle
Leddy
TVR

...a lot of mobility(excluding TVR), which is what we lack on the blue line more than anything.

Raanta

There’s probably more I’m forgetting.
- SimpleJack

Panarin cap casualty
Teravainen cap casualty (Needed to move a sick Bickell)
Schmaltz Too early to judge you could be right
Danault Bad trade Q and Bowman on a different page
Hinostroza Did nothing in Chicago
DuClair Really? He sucked in Chicago and for years before
Kahun Maybe, the Hawks needed a defenseman
Kempny he wasn't much in Chicgo but in hindsight I agree
Jokiharju too early to judge
Oesterle Really?
Leddy Cap casualty
TVR Cap casualty

Just curious - do you think that Stan had ANY role in the 2013-2015 run?

Or was it all Tallon’s core, and the rest just fell into place - anyone could have done it?
- StLBravesFan

Yes and I used to defend Bowman back then. Liked that he stuck with Hammer and then added Oduya. Made some other nice moves too that helped us retool for the 2013 Cup. And again in 2015.

But that was then, this is now. Since then just about all of his decisions have been poor.

How about Hagel and the Penn State's E Brophy.

Hagel is getting some goals. I believe a while ago you mentioned that he needs a full year AHL.

Brophy I figure replace Strome. But needs one year pro experience plus his skating needs to improve
- jhawk59

From the last blog:

Hagel is much like Highmore, Sikura, and Soderlund: forwards who relentlessly forecheck and backcheck, hustle like their hair is on fire, and not afraid to go to the tough areas.

Both Hagel and Soderlund need at least a year (ideally two) in the minors before having a look-see in the NHL, so no need to rush them when Highmore and Sikura are relatively further along and can do the same thing this season.

When you say Brophy, I think you mean Barratt. Evan Brophey hasn't been in the system in many years.

I don't see Barratt as a Strome replacement, TBH. Strome has 2C potential while Barratt is either a bottom 6 agitator with skill or an all-terrain forward like Shaw (the good, healthy version) who can play on any line and be a difference maker.

Just curious - do you think that Stan had ANY role in the 2013-2015 run?

Or was it all Tallon’s core, and the rest just fell into place - anyone could have done it?
- StLBravesFan

I give most of the 2010 title to Talon, and the other 2 are 100% Bowman.

I'll say this.....why hasn't Crawford been fired? I wonder if he was the Q version of the fall back plan when JC's system sucked like when Bowman SR realized Savard had no clue what the hell he was doing.....and they waited for the slow start and then Savard gets axed.

I mean Calgary turned it around pretty quickly. There are numerous players telling the Hawks to reach out to them on social media regarding Crawford's past....and yet.....nothing.

Keith wasn't even the best defensive defensemen on his own....that was Hammer.

Keith was their most well rounded, but in regards to defending....that one goes to Nik.

And yes Hossa is a HOF, but their inability to fill his shoes 50%, even with the reacquiring of Saad, and the trade of Hammer......that got this decline into the level of NOT being a playoff team......
- SteveRain

Sorry Steve, I'm out. All you do is move the goal posts or cloud things to prove a point. I'll let Mohel go round in circles in futility.