Explain how the GM, any GM, was going to rebound from the "glory years" and make the team a contender within 5 or 6 years? Also factor in the fact the full process of the salary cap has never happened and there's no blueprint on how to rebuild quickly after being successful for a decade.
- paulr

Ummmm by not committing to vets for such long term, by not giving everyone NMCs. And by evaluating talent better so that he doesn’t end up trading away so much speed/skill with such little in return...

All of that would have helped...A LOT.

Other than Seabrook's contract what other horrendus contract(s) has Bowman handed out?
- paulr

Toews and Kane were both overpaid. 10.5 per at that time without knowing for certain what the cap increase would be was very dumb. 9ish per would have been understandable.

Bickells contract was also bad and cost us TT, which makes it worse.

You fire him if (when) you believe that he is a maintainer rather than a builder - someone who can fill in around a good proven core with complementary players, keeping a team on top for a period of time as pieces inevitably fall off - rather than someone who can start at the bottom and, in a reasonable period of time, bring a team to the top.

Jerry Kraus was fired when Reinsdorf finally understood that his GM was the former - filling in around Jordan and Pippen and being a good contributor to 6 championships - but when that ended (not ignoring his contribution to that part of the picture, too) he was completely unable to return the franchise to the top.

Kraus-Jackson, Bowman-Q - as many conflicts as existed within the pairings, they were poles who successful won titles when presented with a core of high quality talent to develop and build around. Neither of the pairings - none of the four - is the right one to be involved in a rebuild (although Stan’s ability to do so may be in doubt).

When Rocky / McD begin to believe that Stan isn’t the right GM for what the Hawks are going through now....
- StLBravesFan

Agree, with one nit to pick. Krauss picked Pippen. Traded the draft rights of Olden Polynice for the rights to Pippen. He built a lot, twice.

I think he has as many dumb/bad moves as any GM since 2014/15. Toews/Kane contracts. Seabs contract. Bickell contract. All the NMCs. The Panarin trade. Losing TT. The Danault trade. The Schmaltz trade. Losing Hinostroza, Kempny, TVR, DuClair, Raanta, etc. The Kahun trade. The Jokiharju trade. It goes on and on and on.

How can you say “it’s not his fault guys got older”? Like he didn’t know Seabs was already old and only going to get older? Why sign him to that long of a term? With a NMC?!?!?

Why is he not to blame? If not him then who? And please don’t say our current roster situation was inevitable, or that this is all just bad luck because of the cap.
- SimpleJack

1.) Bickell contract was fair before he got sick. 2.) The NMC s are standard for stars.
3.) The Panarin trade was the right move.
4.) TT was a lavender sniffer and sucked when he was here. In 6 years Nylander may be better (see Joki trade)
5.) Danault trade, ok went for it didn't pan out..
6.) Most would agree Schmaltz Strome is a wash they both have good and bad points.
7.) Kempney is on Q and was going to cost too much anyway.
8.) The rest of those guys "WGAF"
9.) Kahun Maata is a wash.
10.) Seabs, Dach would have no place to live quit beating a dead horse.

lets hope he doesn't make his bonus metrics...
- bogiedoc

The Hawks will not have a bonus problem.

Explain how the GM, any GM, was going to rebound from the "glory years" and make the team a contender within 5 or 6 years? Also factor in the fact the full process of the salary cap has never happened and there's no blueprint on how to rebuild quickly after being successful for a decade.
- paulr

The Panarin trade I get.....I don't like the reasoning of it, 100% to help get Toews rolling knowing Hossa was on his way out. Also knowing 100% Panarin wasn't resigning here once that 2 year deal ended. He turned it into everyone's, sorry "smart hockey fan", golden 200 ft beast. What is Saad? a very good role player who has a massive trouble finishing chances. How many breakaways does this guy get and it looks like an easy save for the goalie?

The seabrook deal is horrible and inexcusable. He was rewarded for PAST play and you are now paying him 6.875 million a year to play bottom pair minutes and be the defacto captain.

Way too early to tell, but anyone excited about Nylander? What about Strome who has regressed back to his Arizona form which is why they sold high on him. Watch that deal....I highly doubt its below 4 based on other deals that have been given out.

The other trades over the course of Stan's career in the win now portion......ok....they went for it. has he been able to restock the holes left through the draft? DeBrincat is nice....what else has hit in the last 3 years at F who has been drafted who is still here? Not many.

This team is front loaded with money and goes as 2 guys go....19 and 88 and even then last year....they still were awful. So even more concerning is when 19 starts to regress again.....you are truly left with 1 line to produce and 2 goalies to bail out a clan of D men who are old/slow and playing in a system that is not suited for them, the forwards, or the goalies.....

and by the way.....Pittsburgh has stayed very relevant and their glory run started a year before the Hawks...….

Ummmm by not committing to vets for such long term, by not giving everyone NMCs. And by evaluating talent better so that he doesn’t end up trading away so much speed/skill with such little in return...

All of that would have helped...A LOT.
- SimpleJack

So in 2016 you have some posts suggesting Toews, Kane, Keith etc should not be given long term contracts? You were able to see that Keith and Toews would no longer be stars in the leage? Come on Jack, had Bowman lost any of those guys you'd have led the charge to fire Bowman for that. Monday morning, armchair quarterbacking is easy.

I say can the coach bring in someone competent and see what happens.
This team is lost in the o zone and on defense and look lost and frustrated.
the penguins were a crap show until they got rid of the coach then back to back cups it can happen.
- dirt4949

^ this. id like to see what Deboer can do with this team, before trading out everyone of them.

Definition of a temper tantrum. An executive has to constantly ask whether his employee is up to snuff, when compared to possible replacements. Would (s)he be better off hiring x to replace y? I'm asking who is x? And why are they better than Stan?

Btw, is it possible that a poor roster is also part of the rebuild plan?
- mohel

So you’re saying that any time anyone has ever been fired it’s only because there was proof and evidence that their replacement was more qualified? Is that why we fired Q and replaced him with JC?

Sometimes it’s about finding a fresh new face and new mind behind the decision making.

So in 2016 you have some posts suggesting Toews, Kane, Keith etc should not be given long term contracts? You were able to see that Keith and Toews would no longer be stars in the leage? Come on Jack, had Bowman lost any of those guys you'd have led the charge to fire Bowman for that. Monday morning, armchair quarterbacking is easy.
- paulr

Keith was signed like in 1895?

Toews and Kane were both overpaid. 10.5 per at that time without knowing for certain what the cap increase would be was very dumb. 9ish per would have been understandable.

Bickells contract was also bad and cost us TT, which makes it worse.
- SimpleJack

I agree Seabrook was a bad signing. Toews and Kane commanded those salaries and you'd have had a conniption had Bowman offered less for less term and lost them. If you refuse to at least try to understand why moves were made, or intentionally overlook pertinent facts (Why Bickell was moved) there is no point discussing anything with you.

What deal is worse? Seabrook or Burns based on their current play.

How many sell offs has Wilson done? Guy has missed the playoffs 1 time under his watch....and considering where his 1st round picks have been....pretty damn good.

As hawks fans we can't throw stones at anyone's cap issues....we have Toews, Keith and Seabrook locked up until at least 2023...for a combined 27.8
- SteveRain

And you want to hire a guy who has 3 deals worse than 88, 19 and 7, after complaining about the bad deals Stan has signed.

Burns is $8M until he's 40. Seabs is $6.88M until he's 38. Both are bad contracts. And $11.5M for Karlsson for 8 years? Yeah, you can have Dougie.

So in 2016 you have some posts suggesting Toews, Kane, Keith etc should not be given long term contracts? You were able to see that Keith and Toews would no longer be stars in the leage? Come on Jack, had Bowman lost any of those guys you'd have led the charge to fire Bowman for that. Monday morning, armchair quarterbacking is easy.
- paulr

I said nothing about Keith, but even back then I was saying that was too much $ for 19 and 88, and too long of term for Seabs.

So you tell me then why does our roster suck? Why are we so slow and lacking in high end skill? The GM has nothing to do with it?

The Panarin trade I get.....I don't like the reasoning of it, 100% to help get Toews rolling knowing Hossa was on his way out. Also knowing 100% Panarin wasn't resigning here once that 2 year deal ended. He turned it into everyone's, sorry "smart hockey fan", golden 200 ft beast. What is Saad? a very good role player who has a massive trouble finishing chances. How many breakaways does this guy get and it looks like an easy save for the goalie?

The seabrook deal is horrible and inexcusable. He was rewarded for PAST play and you are now paying him 6.875 million a year to play bottom pair minutes and be the defacto captain.

Way too early to tell, but anyone excited about Nylander? What about Strome who has regressed back to his Arizona form which is why they sold high on him. Watch that deal....I highly doubt its below 4 based on other deals that have been given out.

The other trades over the course of Stan's career in the win now portion......ok....they went for it. has he been able to restock the holes left through the draft? DeBrincat is nice....what else has hit in the last 3 years at F who has been drafted who is still here? Not many.

This team is front loaded with money and goes as 2 guys go....19 and 88 and even then last year....they still were awful. So even more concerning is when 19 starts to regress again.....you are truly left with 1 line to produce and 2 goalies to bail out a clan of D men who are old/slow and playing in a system that is not suited for them, the forwards, or the goalies.....

and by the way.....Pittsburgh has stayed very relevant and their glory run started a year before the Hawks...….
- SteveRain

Please, Pitt was "gifted" Sid and who knows what else went on in Mario's basement. Don't compare them to that sad sack of a team. The whole reason Mario is owner is because Sid was gifted to them.

Agree, with one nit to pick. Krauss picked Pippen. Traded the draft rights of Olden Polynice for the rights to Pippen. He built a lot, twice.
- mohel

Yes on Pippen, forgot that - perhaps the best defensive non-center I’ve seen - and he got Grant in that draft.

I maintain that he was a maintainer - I give him more credit than many for his role in the championships - but if you luck into Jordan twice, his job was to build out from there, not build up from the bottom.

He proved after Jordan/Pippen/Jackson that he couldn’t do the latter.

Toews and Kane were both overpaid. 10.5 per at that time without knowing for certain what the cap increase would be was very dumb. 9ish per would have been understandable.

Bickells contract was also bad and cost us TT, which makes it worse.
- SimpleJack

So wrong. Big, bad GM Simplejack would have said to Kane and Toews "you won't get a penny over $9M, leave if that's not enough." Right. And nobody would have hung GM Simplejack in effigy if they walked. Lol.

I said nothing about Keith, but even back then I was saying that was too much $ for 19 and 88, and too long of term for Seabs.

So you tell me then why does our roster suck? Why are we so slow and lacking in high end skill? The GM has nothing to do with it?
- SimpleJack

SJ, it's taken Buffalo and Edmonton 10 years to get back to the playoffs, Detroit five and counting nowhere close. Kings are even further away. Buckle in bud it's going to be a long ride!

female doging is fine if the whoe story is told.

What I don't care for is telling half the story, like Wilson is doing as well as Stan because he hasn't missed the playoffs without pointing out the Hawks are have 3 cups to SJ's zero.
- paulr

Well in fairness if you want to play the whole story....did Wilson inherit 2, top 4 picks in Kane and Toews?

No, he did not. He made a helluva trade early on getting Thornton from Boston.

Deals away his 1st round pick at the deadline in 2007, acquires 1 at the draft and selects Couture.

Look up his trades in cap friendly.....Look at what he paid for Brent Burns, Evander Kane.....

His downfall has been they have had some chokers in net come playoff time....

So you’re saying that any time anyone has ever been fired it’s only because there was proof and evidence that their replacement was more qualified? Is that why we fired Q and replaced him with JC?

Sometimes it’s about finding a fresh new face and new mind behind the decision making.
- SimpleJack

Q was fired because they realized they were entering a rebuild, and, yes, that's not Q's thing at this stage of his career. If they think Stan can't do the rebuild, they'll find a builder and fire Stan. I think if they were going to do that Stan would have left with Q.

You find a fresh face to get better results than the old face. Not some make believe new face - an actual new face, with a name.

And you want to hire a guy who has 3 deals worse than 88, 19 and 7, after complaining about the bad deals Stan has signed.

Burns is $8M until he's 40. Seabs is $6.88M until he's 38. Both are bad contracts. And $11.5M for Karlsson for 8 years? Yeah, you can have Dougie.
- mohel

Yeah, damn that Erik Karlsson and his 2 Norris Trophies.....horrible player, will only be 36/37 when his deal is run out compared to 40 when Keith's does.

Wilson is a damn good GM. Sustained success.

Q was fired because they realized they were entering a rebuild, and, yes, that's not Q's thing at this stage of his career. If they think Stan can't do the rebuild, they'll find a builder and fire Stan. I think if they were going to do that Stan would have left with Q.

You find a fresh face to get better results than the old face. Not some make believe new face - an actual new face, with a name.
- mohel

Rumor is LA is ready to fire their second set of rebuilders...

SJ, it's taken Buffalo and Edmonton 10 years to get back to the playoffs, Detroit five and counting nowhere close. Kings are even further away. Buckle in bud it's going to be a long ride!
- rpeters01

It is going to be a long ride for the team to contend again. Unfortunate yes but also understandable and after 3 cups most Hawk fans should be able to understand that.

Q was fired because they realized they were entering a rebuild, and, yes, that's not Q's thing at this stage of his career. If they think Stan can't do the rebuild, they'll find a builder and fire Stan. I think if they were going to do that Stan would have left with Q.

You find a fresh face to get better results than the old face. Not some make believe new face - an actual new face, with a name.
- mohel

And you keep defending Stan on your hill as the team continues to patch work together a lottery team. Enjoy that ride.

No idea on a name.....Dean Lombardi still out there? Since cups seem matter there's a guy with 2, but im sure the Stan clan will diminish his results as well.

Yeah, damn that Erik Karlsson and his 2 Norris Trophies.....horrible player, will only be 36/37 when his deal is run out compared to 40 when Keith's does.

Wilson is a damn good GM. Sustained success.
- SteveRain

I realize he's not a purdy skater, but how many Norris trophies does keith have ..... Oh and how many cups, gold medals and Stanley cup MVPs?

Yeah, damn that Erik Karlsson and his 2 Norris Trophies.....horrible player, will only be 36/37 when his deal is run out compared to 40 when Keith's does.

Wilson is a damn good GM. Sustained success.
- SteveRain

You really think Karlsson was a good signing? Wow. He's been headed downhill for several years already, and that will be an awful contract.