To be fair (and I agree with you), Krug and Grzelyck were very instrumental in the Bruins' run last year. But if you have those guys, you need to balance it out with size. We got handled over the duration of that series. I'm not letting the pendulum swing in the opposite direction and demand the world's largest team, but last SCF, and the one before that, helped reiterate the importance of having at least a semblance of heavy hockey in the playoffs. I think the Leafs have next to zero and to me, that might be a problem unless you pull a rare Pittsburgh Penguins type of cup win. They don't happen often though.
- RickJames77

exactly ... a balance.

the perfect counter point to the size argument isn't saying that Spurgeon is a great defenseman.... rather ... that Jake Gardiner isn't - and he's 6.3 or whatever.

there's a long long list of guys who are "large" but never took advantage of their size effectively or consistently.

Bouwmeester is a pretty big guy, he doesn't play overly aggressively - but he is effective.

If the Leaf Dubas Philosophy koolaid addicts would pause for about 1/2 a second, they need only to look at the core of wingers as the perfect counter point.

Are the Leafs better with guys like Engvall and Soupy in the line-up versus - Petan and Timashov... and if so - why? Is it because Engvall and Soupy can actually retrieve a puck periodically, or hang onto it without getting knocked on their a__ easily... by... you guessed it - a larger defenseman?

oh so complicated.

I can get behind this idea. I just don't know who/where and how much it'll cost to get said player.
- Aaron_85

Nylander plus for Paryako.

now this won't happen... but that type of deal would be indicative.

exactly ... a balance.

the perfect counter point to the size argument isn't saying that Spurgeon is a great defenseman.... rather ... that Jake Gardiner isn't - and he's 6.3 or whatever.

there's a long long list of guys who are "large" but never took advantage of their size effectively or consistently.

Bouwmeester is a pretty big guy, he doesn't play overly aggressively - but he is effective.

If the Leaf Dubas Philosophy koolaid addicts would pause for about 1/2 a second, they need only to look at the core of wingers as the perfect counter point.

Are the Leafs better with guys like Engvall and Soupy in the line-up versus - Petan and Timashov... and if so - why? Is it because Engvall and Soupy can actually retrieve a puck periodically, or hang onto it without getting knocked on their a__ easily... by... you guessed it - a larger defenseman?

oh so complicated.
- BorjeFan4Ever

Agreed - balance is key. Good points with Bouwmeester

Nylander plus for Paryako.

now this won't happen... but that type of deal would be indicative.
- BorjeFan4Ever

Pffft there's always a chance.

Despite being indicative of what the offer might look like it still doesn't tell me who/where it's coming from.

To be fair (and I agree with you), Krug and Grzelyck were very instrumental in the Bruins' run last year. But if you have those guys, you need to balance it out with size. We got handled over the duration of that series. I'm not letting the pendulum swing in the opposite direction and demand the world's largest team, but last SCF, and the one before that, helped reiterate the importance of having at least a semblance of heavy hockey in the playoffs. I think the Leafs have next to zero and to me, that might be a problem unless you pull a rare Pittsburgh Penguins type of cup win. They don't happen often though.
- RickJames77

Yes

I am all too familiar with this story. So sad.

As I said yesterday in a thread. Leaf fans seem to want every guy to be the best at everything but also play for nothing. It just doesn't happen. I'm sure it's common in other places too where people think other players on other teams are perfect and their guy isn't.
- Aaron_85

yup.

but I have a question....

so it was the Leaf fan base the crticized Gil for not scoring points.... but he could still defend and kill penalities.

what happens when you have a forward, who contributes nothing/next to nothing in their own zone... but doesn't score despite getting PP time and lots of minutes at 5v5?

I think this sort of conversation is why Kevin Bahl was a piece in the Hall trade. Big, mobile, defensive defenseman. He isn't going to put up a ton of points, but slot him in that 4 spot and on the PK and he can really help you out. Granted, if a big guy handles the puck like a hand grenade, then you can't have that. You have to at least be able to make a solid outlet pass or skate it your own blue line. That's really not that much to ask of a player anymore though.

I think the league went too far in the big, heavy hockey approach, and then swung too far in the opposite direction recently. For better or worse, come April, the game changes and that's when a balance will pay dividends.

Pffft there's always a chance.

Despite being indicative of what the offer might look like it still doesn't tell me who/where it's coming from.
- Aaron_85

don't understand your question?

I think this sort of conversation is why Kevin Bahl was a piece in the Hall trade. Big, mobile, defensive defenseman. He isn't going to put up a ton of points, but slot him in that 4 spot and on the PK and he can really help you out. Granted, if a big guy handles the puck like a hand grenade, then you can't have that. You have to at least be able to make a solid outlet pass or skate it your own blue line. That's really not that much to ask of a player anymore though.

I think the league went too far in the big, heavy hockey approach, and then swung too far in the opposite direction recently. For better or worse, come April, the game changes.
- RickJames77

yup

I think this sort of conversation is why Kevin Bahl was a piece in the Hall trade. Big, mobile, defensive defenseman. He isn't going to put up a ton of points, but slot him in that 4 spot and on the PK and he can really help you out. Granted, if a big guy handles the puck like a hand grenade, then you can't have that. You have to at least be able to make a solid outlet pass or skate it your own blue line. That's really not that much to ask of a player anymore though.

I think the league went too far in the big, heavy hockey approach, and then swung too far in the opposite direction recently. For better or worse, come April, the game changes and that's when a balance will pay dividends.
- RickJames77

I fully agree.

I think this sort of conversation is why Kevin Bahl was a piece in the Hall trade. Big, mobile, defensive defenseman. He isn't going to put up a ton of points, but slot him in that 4 spot and on the PK and he can really help you out. Granted, if a big guy handles the puck like a hand grenade, then you can't have that. You have to at least be able to make a solid outlet pass or skate it your own blue line. That's really not that much to ask of a player anymore though.

I think the league went too far in the big, heavy hockey approach, and then swung too far in the opposite direction recently. For better or worse, come April, the game changes and that's when a balance will pay dividends.
- RickJames77

Ah man. If only you were a Leafs fan.

I don't actually read what you (or anyone else here) actually writes. I take a cursory glance and then make wild assumptions to support my own arguments.

And thank you - these jeans DO make my ass look good.
- Atomic Wedgie

Ha ha ha

Pics?

Ha ha ha

Pics?
- Zezel

They're skinny jean, self cut, daisy dukes and they are so tight, that even his small package creates a sever moose knuckle that looks like it could compromise the button and turn into a make shift champagne cork. Watch your eyes, Zezies, watch your eyes.

thats not a simple question that can really be answered here..but lots of factors.
supply/demand, land value increased, easier to get loans, lower interest rate...are a few.

I moved to Ottawa area beacuse I didnt want to live in a Big City like Toronto where my career pretty much required me to be..if I wanted to make decent money that is.
- senstroll

you touched on where I was going... immigrants (mostly) bought those $3 houses your referred to... starter homes, with zero frills. what people consider a starter home now and for the past 20 years or so is FAR removed from those earlier starter homes... and there was smaller demand back then.

its simple math really, back then mostly one car per family, one breadwinner... now not so much.

but now two breadwinners is typically and no one is home during the day in the 3,000sq ft mcmansion, on a 42' lot in Brampton. but this is a choice... why do you need/want a 3000 sq ft house

short story - the expectations are too high relative to the income - and the sh_t berger car that your parents drove back when they bought their house for $3 is a far cry from the $50k BMW or Audi "that simply has to be in the driveway" now

manage the expectations - based on what you make... not based on what TV tells you could win on Family Feud or the Unreal Housewives of Plastic Surgery village

They're skinny jean, self cut, daisy dukes and they are so tight, that even his small package creates a sever moose knuckle that looks like it could compromise the button and turn into a make shift champagne cork. Watch your eyes, Zezies, watch your eyes.
- RickJames77

okay... you went too far...

you used Daisy Dukes and moose knuckle in one sentence.

They're skinny jean, self cut, daisy dukes and they are so tight, that even his small package creates a sever moose knuckle that looks like it could compromise the button and turn into a make shift champagne cork. Watch your eyes, Zezies, watch your eyes.
- RickJames77

Lol

That was better than a pic, it made the pic inside my mind.

I would still say that 8 of the last 10 cups were won by teams that had some size and I believe that is important. Not the be all end all. It doesn't trump skill. But it is a factor and the Leafs have much less of it than 8 of the last 10 SC winners. That's my opinion. I'm not saying you're wrong.
- RickJames77

This

yup.

but I have a question....

so it was the Leaf fan base the crticized Gil for not scoring points.... but he could still defend and kill penalities.

what happens when you have a forward, who contributes nothing/next to nothing in their own zone... but doesn't score despite getting PP time and lots of minutes at 5v5?
- BorjeFan4Ever

I'd call that forward trade bait.

Lol

That was better than a pic, it made the pic inside my mind.
- Zezel

To be fair, that pic is always there

To be fair, that pic is always there
- Canada Cup

Yeah I should have said READ the pic inside my mind.

Ah man. If only you were Dubass.
- walshyleafsfan

*fixed

Recency bias.

And rare? It happened three times.

It is a copy cat league and fans go crazy over recent cup wins.
- Santo_44

We have holl and muzzin who have good size.

Rielly isn't small.

Maybe a adding a depth guy with size would be nice since maricin, harper and gravel all suck.

But a backup goalie and a couple useful bigger forwards would be the priority imo.

you touched on where I was going... immigrants (mostly) bought those $3 houses your referred to... starter homes, with zero frills. what people consider a starter home now and for the past 20 years or so is FAR removed from those earlier starter homes... and there was smaller demand back then.

its simple math really, back then mostly one car per family, one breadwinner... now not so much.

but now two breadwinners is typically and no one is home during the day in the 3,000sq ft mcmansion, on a 42' lot in Brampton. but this is a choice... why do you need/want a 3000 sq ft house

short story - the expectations are too high relative to the income - and the sh_t berger car that your parents drove back when they bought their house for $3 is a far cry from the $50k BMW or Audi "that simply has to be in the driveway" now

manage the expectations - based on what you make... not based on what TV tells you could win on Family Feud or the Unreal Housewives of Plastic Surgery village
- BorjeFan4Ever

Money and toys don't buy happiness, it is a really toxic way that we were brought up.

A friend of mine has always owned a successful media business and he sold it a few years ago for 15 million.

The dude is the most unhappy crabby (frank)er, and he never used to be that way. He buys a new toy and sells it every month. Divorced, kids don't want anything to do with him anymore.

When the (frank) did people get so materialistic.

It is the biggest bummer about Christmas.

We have holl and muzzin who have good size.

Rielly isn't small.

Maybe a adding a depth guy with size would be nice since maricin, harper and gravel all suck.

But a backup goalie and a couple useful bigger forwards would be the priority imo.
- Tumbleweed

If they can get a player that is skilled and also big? Great.

If his price tag is a premium because of his size, I laugh and walk away.

you touched on where I was going... immigrants (mostly) bought those $3 houses your referred to... starter homes, with zero frills. what people consider a starter home now and for the past 20 years or so is FAR removed from those earlier starter homes... and there was smaller demand back then.

its simple math really, back then mostly one car per family, one breadwinner... now not so much.

but now two breadwinners is typically and no one is home during the day in the 3,000sq ft mcmansion, on a 42' lot in Brampton. but this is a choice... why do you need/want a 3000 sq ft house

short story - the expectations are too high relative to the income - and the sh_t berger car that your parents drove back when they bought their house for $3 is a far cry from the $50k BMW or Audi "that simply has to be in the driveway" now

manage the expectations - based on what you make... not based on what TV tells you could win on Family Feud or the Unreal Housewives of Plastic Surgery village
- BorjeFan4Ever

This is coupled with society basically living on credit.

I do financial planning and I deal with this on a regular basis. People have ridiculous expectations and the media really bleeds into the greed.

Also, people have this idea of keeping up with the Jonses and it's deterimental to their happiness.

I can give a piece of advice to everyone here. The richest people I work with are ones who live in a modest home with modest cars. The mortgage they accept is usually 70% of their top end.